Clifmeister Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 54 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Some numbers: With my 1300Wh ACM at ~80kg rider weight, I get: 75 km range in 25°C temperatures and speed around 25 km/h max (around 20 km/h average). 60 km range in 10°C temperatures and speed around 30 km/h max (around 25 km/h average). (Those are including the slow, low battery beeping last few km. Also, no hills worth mentioning in there, but at least 50% gravel bike paths instead of smooth pavement only.) Weight eats battery (like you can see for yourself), lower temperatures reduce battery too, going faster (wind resistance) makes quite the difference. Usually the 16S would be the natural V8 upgrade path (same type of wheel and rider might be interested in both, similar features), but even 840Wh are not double that of your 480Wh in the V8, so you can't really expect to double the range this way. So ACM 1300Wh (or 1600Wh), Tesla (>1000Wh version) or Rockwheel GT16 1036 Wh are your bigger battery 16 inch options. Your decision whether you want to exchange the really-nice-except-for-the-battery 16S for the rougher-around-the-edges-but-bigger-battery alternatives. I would not exchange my ACM for a 16S simply because of the battery, but that's me. But if you really want to at least double your range and since you're in the Netherlands, no mountain problems can possibly happen, the 1300+ Wh ACM seems like the best choice. It's also more different to your V8 (wide stance, glued to the ground vs narrow stance, wobbly V8 with its low weight) than the 16S would be, so you'll have a broader horizon of riding styles with an ACM in your collection. Also, don't be afraid of 18 inch wheels, they are barely bigger than 16 inchers, when you ride them you don't feel the size anyways, they still don't look big to outsiders (even the Monster seems rather small imho), the 16 inchers are already crazy heavy to lift, so not so many downsides as you may think. msuper V3 and 18S are right there. You could also consider the coming 18L (lower KS14/16-like version of the 18S) if you want to wait and want to hope they'll offer that with the same battery sizes as the 18S. Then you can have KS quality AND (if they don't fuck it up by only having <1000Wh variants) a big battery/big range, even if you don't like the 18S form factor. Wow awesome info! I will also have a serious look at the msuper, the thread about the cutoff threw me away a little for the gotways... but I also hear great things about them tho... KS vs GW battle! Keeping an eye out for the KS L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifmeister Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said: What device is this? Sorry I messed up the sentence... should be “putting the device ON, the device reported an empty battery” ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifmeister Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 Btw @Jason McNeil do you still operate in the EU? Noticed the shop is not updated a lot with new stock, I hope your not leaving the EU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Ian got 14/22.5km miles on his V8, weighs around 85kg, had non-warm temperatures, gravel roads and some milder hills. So your range may be unfortunately normal (did you check how much you can get out of it, not just when the battery indicator turns red which may be quite a bit from the max range?) with your weight and the quite high 25 km/h average speed. Now that you seem more open to 18 inch, ACM 84V (1300 or 1600 Wh), msuper V3 84V (1300 or 1600 Wh), KS18S with big battery - there are plenty of candidates. For GW in EU, Speedyfeet is a good seller with good prices (and you can take your Platbodem right across the channel to pick it up *cliche time*). KS may be overpriced in EU, sadly. The advantage the ACM might have is the comparably low price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifmeister Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Ian got 14/22.5km miles on his V8, weighs around 85kg, had non-warm temperatures, gravel roads and some milder hills. So your range may be unfortunately normal (did you check how much you can get out of it, not just when the battery indicator turns red which may be quite a bit from the max range) with your weight and the quite high 25 km/h speed. Now that you seem more open to 18 inch, ACM 84V (1300 or 1600 Wh), msuper V3 84V (1300 or 1600 Wh), KS18S with big battery - theres plenty of candidates. For GW in EU, Speedyfeet is a good seller with good prices. KS may be overpriced, sadly. The advantage the ACM might have is the comparably low price. So your riding a ACM 84 right now? Or is fried on a Hill? I ordered all my stuff with SpeedyFeet btw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Yep, riding an ACM 1300 Wh. I could fry it again, but obviously won't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 The frying can only happen going up looong, steep, uninterrupted hills (with the 84V GWs), so don't worry about that! Nobody who didn't force the wheel up a steep mountain without mercy ever had that, or should even theoretically have that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 On 08/08/2017 at 10:57 AM, WARPed1701D said: Total distance: 8.74 km Max Speed: 20.37 kph (tiltback currently set to 20 kph) Average Speed: 15.53 kph Start Voltage: 84.24v, 100% End Voltage: 80.73v, 87% Max Wheel Temp: 37C @palachzzz Just to give you an idea of the drain I was getting on my first commute to work. 8.74km. Full charge went down to 87%. Admitedly this was early on and my average was only 15kph. This was the charge where I got my 24 mile range. The other 3 identical rides in this charge had the limiter set at 25kph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodman Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Ian got 14/22.5km miles on his V8, weighs around 85kg, had non-warm temperatures, gravel roads and some milder hills. So your range may be unfortunately normal (did you check how much you can get out of it, not just when the battery indicator turns red which may be quite a bit from the max range?) with your weight and the quite high 25 km/h average speed. It all depends on your ride style at best I get around 16-18kms but I ride close to the maximum speed most the time and I accelerate fast and reverse alot so as to not stop and step off with around 30% battery left and I weigh less than 70kg. I can get alot more range with a boring slow consistent ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 My average speed on my V8 is 13.5 mph and thats stopping at all stop signs and going until it gives me the lean back. I still get 22 miles on a charge. I do lots of hills both up and down too. You should send the battery back on a ticket after the Wheel log test if it shows any anomalies. I am constantly hearing the warning blasts, so its not that I am riding all boring and slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snurre Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 14 hours ago, Clifmeister said: After a full charge the battery turns red after about 13 km, [...] Yes, definitely something fishy about the 13km range, have you checked with the Inmotion app? My experience is that red battery occurs very early, about 50%. I am 82kg but on my V8 commute I carry a heavy backpack of 15kg which together with my clothing puts me in the vicinity of 100kg. A rolling distance to work and back of 18km, averaging 23km/h - about half of it on gravel/dirt roads with several moderate slants - brings me down to about 40% battery. Like you @Clifmeister, I had my mind set on a complementary "glider" wheel (notably an 18") to give me the distance but I found the options limited: Gotway's you-know-what issues and the form factor of KingSong 18S have kept my wallet down in the pocket and I am looking forward to upcoming releases. For commuting (bringing the wheel on trains, carrying up and down stairs, dodging traffic) I really don't see any replacement for the V8 in terms of its balanced size, weight and nimbleness. I find the speed and range more than sufficient in this situation. But @Clifmeister, don't go jumping off any cliffs just yet - let's see what time (and Ian) will bring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I don't recommend replacing your V8 with something like a KS16s or even some other 16 inchers because those wheels are more similar than different. Spending money twice on a "16 incher only longer" won't afford you much flexibility. I'd recommend something much smaller or much bigger, perhaps a KS14s and an Gotway V3s. I've ridden all these wheels except the V8 and the feel you get across them is entirely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 13 minutes ago, LanghamP said: h smaller or much bigger, perhaps a KS14s and an Gotway V3s. I've ridden all these wheels except the V8 and the feel you get across The V8 is actually a better version of the KS14S and its lighter. They are in the same category as far as feel, but the 14S has a bit more torque in its 800w motor. I would suggest an mten if you only do a little commuting to and from work. It is lighter than the V8, much smaller and very powerful. Has around the same range too. @LanghamP will like it too because it is a 10" wheel and not a 16"er. It too has an 800w motor and its fat tire will get you over the bumps. I have not tried potholes yet, but nor do I want to try. It will jump off curbs like a champ easier than the V8. The Gotways usually have a much different feel and ride even if it is the same sized wheel. It will feel and be useful for totally different missions. I have ridden the M2 super and the ACM 16" wheels and they are fun, but not very portable if you are on a commute. They are terriffic and fast wheels though through the trails and on long distance riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acturbo Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 5 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: Some numbers: With my 1300Wh ACM at ~80kg rider weight, I get: 75 km range in 25°C temperatures and speed around 25 km/h max (around 20 km/h average). 60 km range in 10°C temperatures and speed around 30 km/h max (around 25 km/h average). (Those are including the slow, low battery beeping last few km. Also, no hills worth mentioning in there, but at least 50% gravel bike paths instead of smooth pavement only.) Weight eats battery (like you can see for yourself), lower temperatures reduce battery too, going faster (wind resistance) makes quite the difference. Usually the 16S would be the natural V8 upgrade path (same type of wheel and rider might be interested in both, similar features), but even 840Wh are not double that of your 480Wh in the V8, so you can't really expect to double the range this way. So ACM 1300Wh (or 1600Wh), Tesla (>1000Wh version) or Rockwheel GT16 1036 Wh are your bigger battery 16 inch options. Your decision whether you want to exchange the really-nice-except-for-the-battery 16S for the rougher-around-the-edges-but-bigger-battery alternatives. I would not exchange my ACM for a 16S simply because of the battery, but that's me. But if you really want to at least double your range and since you're in the Netherlands, no mountain problems can possibly happen, the 1300+ Wh ACM seems like the best choice. It's also more different to your V8 (wide stance, glued to the ground vs narrow stance, wobbly V8 with its low weight) than the 16S would be, so you'll have a broader horizon of riding styles with an ACM in your collection. Also, don't be afraid of 18 inch wheels, they are barely bigger than 16 inchers, when you ride them you don't feel the size anyways, they still don't look big to outsiders (even the Monster seems rather small imho), the 16 inchers are already crazy heavy to lift, so not so many downsides as you may think. msuper V3 and 18S are right there. You could also consider the coming 18L (lower KS14/16-like version of the 18S) if you want to wait and want to hope they'll offer that with the same battery sizes as the 18S. Then you can have KS quality AND (if they don't fuck it up by only having <1000Wh variants) a big battery/big range, even if you don't like the 18S form factor. I'm going to concur with meep here. I wouldn't trade my ACM 1300 for a 16S and this is coming from someone who had issues right out of the box with his. 84V, 1300(or more) battery, comfortable, and stable. I wish that Gotway had a little better quality control but they have never left me face down on the ground and never left me stranded. I wish Kingsong would switch to 84V and larger batteries but who knows when or if that will happen. I choose the possibility of minor issues and more power and battery over smaller battery, less power, and better build quality. You must choose, but choose wisely....................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 20 minutes ago, Acturbo said: , but even 840Wh are not double that of your 480Wh in the V8, so you can't really expect to double the range this way. I believe the efficiency of a larger battery does increase the milage available. I easily get 50 miles out of the 840wh KS14c when it doesnt overheat, and I have never gotten below 34% level. I dont know why this is, maybe the kingsong is better at generating power going downhills. Maybe the 84v system eats power quicker. I regularly see adverts with only a 75% increase in battery will double the range in certain ebikes so pretty sure it will double your range. I cant speak for the build quality, but they are easy to replace the panels which are cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainKBLS Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 18 hours ago, Clifmeister said: So yes, I fell in love with EUC, I managed to ride around some KM with my Inmotion V8 learning machine. It’s a great machine and gets me everywhere I like. It’s fast and did not fail me! The only thing that concerned me was the range. After a full charge the battery turns red after about 13 km, with a constant speed of 25 km/h, and a weight of 95 kg (last is probably the biggest factor of range). That’s all good and it let me finish a fun trail, but I want to do some bigger trails and don’t have to worry about my range. I like the 16 inch, and don’t wat to step up to 18 inch (I like to keep it low profile, so not everybody starts to see it as a monster vehicle) Do you guys have valid upgrade options? Which give me at least double the range, and the same speed 25-30 km/h. Don’t need to go faster I really like the constant speed I’m currently used to. I keep looking at the Gotway ACM, 1300 version. Or the king song 16s versions. What do you guys think? Is it even possible with my weight/constant speed. So what are great upgrade routes coming from an Inmotion V8? I starting riding EUC in April with a V8 from Jason. By August, I ending buying the ACM16 1300 purely for range. * I had a few concerns about Gotway that people reported here but have not had any problems. * Well I did have a few, with the V8 you press the on button any way you wanted and it levels out almost instantly. My ACM16 you have turn it on straight up or it'll take longer to level out and if you get on before that the pedal dips on you. There was one time where I waited several minutes and the pedal still dip on me. * I really hate the external trolley handle not for it's look but it's just awkward to trolley around. The darn thing is like a bulldog on a lease and wants to pull away and kick dirt at you. But I definitely love riding it over the V8 which feels like a toy now. The ACM16 feels like a tank and I never have to worry about battery anymore. I wanted the portability to put it under the table at a restaurant. If people are saying the 18inch is not bigger, I would love to get that one to help with the bumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 8 hours ago, CaptainKBLS said: The darn thing is like a bulldog on a lease and wants to pull away and kick dirt at you. It's an ACM all right I've had a few times where it did its spin routine and splashed dirt right into my face. Makes you learn not to drop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Just a bit more V8 range data. I'm doing a range test now and from a full charge I've done 25km and still have 30% battery. I'm hoping to get home (8km) tonight on that 30%. Top speeds around 28-29kph. Averages around 20-23kph Flat paved terrain. Upper 20C temps. About 75kg rider weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifmeister Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 Oh man, the last few days I constantly visited speedyfeet to fill the shopping basket. Im sticking too Gotway. And to clarify Im not selling my V8. Thats my device for doing short commutes to the grocery and stuff. My list now consists of the MSuper V3s+ 1300 - 1600 or ACM 1300 - 1600 I dont know if speedyfeet sells the latest version of the ACM +s? Or are those the 1300-1600 versions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifmeister Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 Oh man, the last few days I constantly visited speedyfeet to fill the shopping basket. Im sticking too Gotway. And to clarify Im not selling my V8. Thats my device for doing short commutes to the grocery and stuff. My list now consists of the MSuper V3s+ 1300 - 1600 or ACM 1300 - 1600 I dont know if speedyfeet sells the latest version of the ACM +s? Or are those the 1300-1600 versions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Since like fun! Are you still going to try to resolve the range issue you have with the V8? I did get home on my 30% remaining battery and then some. 34km total range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifmeister Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 Just now, WARPed1701D said: Since like fun! Are you still going to try to resolve the range issue you have with the V8? I did get home on my 30% remaining battery and then some. 34km total range. Yeah I will do a proper range test. I only checked my indicator at the front, maybe I can drive some more miles out of it. Also contacted speedyfeet. And they told me the same. They have alot of different numbers, and the highest miles come out of california strange enough. Maybe weather and type of road / wind have impact. Still on holiday, and checking the forum on my phone. Missing my wheel!!! I love riding! Lucky I dont live in Italy... man the roads here look dangerous to ride on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 6 minutes ago, Clifmeister said: Yeah I will do a proper range test. I only checked my indicator at the front, maybe I can drive some more miles out of it. Also contacted speedyfeet. And they told me the same. They have alot of different numbers, and the highest miles come out of california strange enough. Maybe weather and type of road / wind have impact. Still on holiday, and checking the forum on my phone. Missing my wheel!!! I love riding! Lucky I dont live in Italy... man the roads here look dangerous to ride on! Awesome. I'm really interested in the results. For reference I did a full charge last night and just rode 8.5km to work. My wheel indicator is still full. I imagine at 12km I would have lost 1 bar at most. This is in near optimal riding conditions. The V8 seems to show 100‰ battery for voltages over 82.5v which is why after a full charge (84v) you can run for several km at the start and see no apparent drop in battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Apparently braking hard eats up huge amounts of energy as I've discovered this week from my new amusement of braking hard at each stop. The wheel must be switching from regenerative braking to using energy to keep you upright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Clifmeister said: Oh man, the last few days I constantly visited speedyfeet to fill the shopping basket. Im sticking too Gotway. And to clarify Im not selling my V8. Thats my device for doing short commutes to the grocery and stuff. My list now consists of the MSuper V3s+ 1300 - 1600 or ACM 1300 - 1600 I dont know if speedyfeet sells the latest version of the ACM +s? Or are those the 1300-1600 versions? Forget the s'es and s+'es, not even Gotway is consistent with that. There are 4 of each wheel, msuper V3 and ACM: 680 Wh (67.2 V) 820 Wh (67.2 V) 1300 Wh (84 V) [often called the "s" version] 1600 Wh (84 V) [often called the "s+" version] Whether to get an ACM or ms3, I can't tell. 84V strongly recommended. You could argue ms3 is a bigger difference to the V8, but if you want a smaller wheel, the ACM is also going to be a big difference. Follow your heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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