Acturbo Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 On 9/27/2017 at 1:33 PM, eddiemoy said: I've been riding since May 2017... Every accident I've seen so far is with a Gotway. Maybe it isn't the wheel. Maybe it is the users or the ones that choose Gotway for the speed or the thrill. Good luck! A simple google search would show that on more than one occasion there have been shut offs and cut outs with more than one king song wheel, most of which point back to this forum. That's not to defend Gotways quality by any means, but making blanket statements that every accident you know of has involved a Gotway seems suspect to me. I realize that all Gotway components are not top of the line and they have had their fair share of issues. I've owned 3 of their wheels and even being a heavier rider who pushes the limits have never had a cutout, and I ride mine hundreds or miles a week usually. My personal opinion on the matter is that Gotway owners tend to push the limits a little more(I know I do) because their products are geared toward the faster/longer lasting market whereas the Kingsongs are geared toward the lets just cruise reliably and not push the limits market. This is all speculation of course but I seem to see way more documentation of folks pushing the limits on the Gotway products than the Kingsongs. Also with only one Kingsong wheel even being close in battery capacity it would seem longer ride times and exposure would tend to generate more possibilities for failure. This is not a defense of Gotway quality by any means, Kingsong def makes a good reliable product and seems to have higher quality components than Gotway. So the main question is, since I have never had a Gotway cutout am I allowed to say"only kingsongs have issues". Or would that be a blanket statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 I'd cooled on the idea of 18 inch wheels because of their weight, but with the Canadian winter coming I'm thinking they may better handle the road/sidewalk conditions with their wider tire. The Ninebot Z series is the obvious candidate as my next upgrade. Ninebot seems similar to Inmotion in that they seem to have more resources to invest in R & D and material costs that result in greater reliability. I suspect I'll own another wheel before I get a Z, but I'm already fairly sure I'm eventually getting one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 9 hours ago, Acturbo said: A simple google search would show that on more than one occasion there have been shut offs and cut outs with more than one king song wheel, most of which point back to this forum. That's not to defend Gotways quality by any means, but making blanket statements that every accident you know of has involved a Gotway seems suspect to me. I realize that all Gotway components are not top of the line and they have had their fair share of issues. I've owned 3 of their wheels and even being a heavier rider who pushes the limits have never had a cutout, and I ride mine hundreds or miles a week usually. My personal opinion on the matter is that Gotway owners tend to push the limits a little more(I know I do) because their products are geared toward the faster/longer lasting market whereas the Kingsongs are geared toward the lets just cruise reliably and not push the limits market. This is all speculation of course but I seem to see way more documentation of folks pushing the limits on the Gotway products than the Kingsongs. Also with only one Kingsong wheel even being close in battery capacity it would seem longer ride times and exposure would tend to generate more possibilities for failure. This is not a defense of Gotway quality by any means, Kingsong def makes a good reliable product and seems to have higher quality components than Gotway. So the main question is, since I have never had a Gotway cutout am I allowed to say"only kingsongs have issues". Or would that be a blanket statement? Chris? If you go back and read my statement I just mention that the accidents I've seen since I've started to ride was all Gotway. I'm sure there are accidents with King Song and other brands, but I've not seen those since I've joined. Maybe Marty should stop making accident videos that he has with Gotway. LOL. Just yesterday, I did see a post on FB a guy who was pushing his wheel up a grassy hill lose traction and took a fall, that was the first King Song I've seen since I've started riding which isn't so long. Again, it isn't a blanket statement that says all accidents are Gotway. It is what I've noticed in the last 4 months. I've even seen Tishawn take a spill a couple of time in that time frame in his videos. Think he admitted that his was firmware related. Strange as his was purchased not in the bad firmware batch. Anyway, it is what ever the person is comfortable with. The KS18S allows up to 50km/h also with over 80miles of range. I feel their approach is safer. I still think there are not all that many that ride as much as you and Edwin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 6 hours ago, mezzanine said: I'd cooled on the idea of 18 inch wheels because of their weight, but with the Canadian winter coming I'm thinking they may better handle the road/sidewalk conditions with their wider tire. The Ninebot Z series is the obvious candidate as my next upgrade. Ninebot seems similar to Inmotion in that they seem to have more resources to invest in R & D and material costs that result in greater reliability. I suspect I'll own another wheel before I get a Z, but I'm already fairly sure I'm eventually getting one. What do you consider heavy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 42 minutes ago, eddiemoy said: Chris? If you go back and read my statement I just mention that the accidents I've seen since I've started to ride was all Gotway. I'm sure there are accidents with King Song and other brands, but I've not seen those since I've joined. Maybe Marty should stop making accident videos that he has with Gotway. LOL. Just yesterday, I did see a post on FB a guy who was pushing his wheel up a grassy hill lose traction and took a fall, that was the first King Song I've seen since I've started riding which isn't so long. Again, it isn't a blanket statement that says all accidents are Gotway. It is what I've noticed in the last 4 months. I've even seen Tishawn take a spill a couple of time in that time frame in his videos. Think he admitted that his was firmware related. Strange as his was purchased not in the bad firmware batch. Anyway, it is what ever the person is comfortable with. The KS18S allows up to 50km/h also with over 80miles of range. I feel their approach is safer. I still think there are not all that many that ride as much as you and Edwin. I'm very skeptical of the KS18S being able to travel 80 miles. Whenever I tell people how far any of my wheels can go (Gotway & KingSong) it's based on personal experience, and I provide the riding weight. I suspect that the real world distance is actually in the 50 to 60 mile range given a ~80kg (170lb) rider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoinPostal Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: I'm very skeptical of the KS18S being able to travel 80 miles. Whenever I tell people how far any of my wheels can go (Gotway & KingSong) it's based on personal experience, and I provide the riding weight. I suspect that the real world distance is actually in the 50 to 60 mile range given a ~80kg (170lb) rider. I think it will do it. My KS18S only has the single battery, so theoretically half the distance. I have done a single non-stop ride of 23 miles on mine, and had 60% battery remaining. This at 250 pound rider weight. Having used the top 40%, and still having the bottom 40% to go would put me in the ballpark of 46 miles. Add the second battery, and 80 miles seems possible.. now drop to Marty weight, it may go forever.. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 4 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I'm very skeptical of the KS18S being able to travel 80 miles. Whenever I tell people how far any of my wheels can go (Gotway & KingSong) it's based on personal experience, and I provide the riding weight. I suspect that the real world distance is actually in the 50 to 60 mile range given a ~80kg (170lb) rider. I'm with Marty on this one, and further as a heavier rider I find 40% on my KS16 to get mushy pedals, so really the safe range, that is, the range the wheel isn't going to dump you, to be much less than any advertised distance. And doing a true range test is somewhat dangerous because as the voltage goes down the wheel has less capacity to keep you upright. I prefer to ride between 60% to 100%, and top my charges to 85% for most times. That being said, my rides rarely last for longer than 12 miles or 1.5 hours. Actually, I don't think I've ever ridden further than 12 miles at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 5 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I'm very skeptical of the KS18S being able to travel 80 miles. Whenever I tell people how far any of my wheels can go (Gotway & KingSong) it's based on personal experience, and I provide the riding weight. I suspect that the real world distance is actually in the 50 to 60 mile range given a ~80kg (170lb) rider. 50 is much to less, 80 a bit to high... I get about 100-110km out of 75% batterie range, ending at 25%(long tours, no stop and go)....and i am 90kg. @Marty Backe Actual the S series dont take as much as on my 300watt lower powered 18a, having a better power consumption than the old version. French user also report a usage of 11wh/km (slow) to 16wh/km(fast riding) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acturbo Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 2 hours ago, LanghamP said: I'm with Marty on this one, and further as a heavier rider I find 40% on my KS16 to get mushy pedals, so really the safe range, that is, the range the wheel isn't going to dump you, to be much less than any advertised distance. And doing a true range test is somewhat dangerous because as the voltage goes down the wheel has less capacity to keep you upright. I prefer to ride between 60% to 100%, and top my charges to 85% for most times. That being said, my rides rarely last for longer than 12 miles or 1.5 hours. Actually, I don't think I've ever ridden further than 12 miles at once. Here is a sampling of my riding last Sunday. I went 39.20 miles, my rider weight is 220 lbs, so a bit on the heavier side. This was with an MSuper V3S+ 1600. I took it from 95% battery down to the point that I was creeping along and the wheel was beeping the whole time I was riding. Eventual battery after dismount said it was 15% but I dare not push any further when the last mile it was yelling at me the whole time. Elevation change was minimal but notice with the splits that I was pushing it pretty hard(over 17mph for 17 miles of the 40 mile trip. I realize this is not a KS18, simply a reference point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acturbo Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 7 hours ago, eddiemoy said: Chris? If you go back and read my statement I just mention that the accidents I've seen since I've started to ride was all Gotway. I'm sure there are accidents with King Song and other brands, but I've not seen those since I've joined. Maybe Marty should stop making accident videos that he has with Gotway. LOL. Just yesterday, I did see a post on FB a guy who was pushing his wheel up a grassy hill lose traction and took a fall, that was the first King Song I've seen since I've started riding which isn't so long. Again, it isn't a blanket statement that says all accidents are Gotway. It is what I've noticed in the last 4 months. I've even seen Tishawn take a spill a couple of time in that time frame in his videos. Think he admitted that his was firmware related. Strange as his was purchased not in the bad firmware batch. Anyway, it is what ever the person is comfortable with. The KS18S allows up to 50km/h also with over 80miles of range. I feel their approach is safer. I still think there are not all that many that ride as much as you and Edwin. Eddie, I completely agree with you about the Kingsongs. I'm not disputing anything about the quality differences. I just wish people would stop bashing Gotway every chance they get. It is personal preference, but to attack the other brand is different all together. I would consider Kingsong if they offered an 84V option with a large battery. The KS18 isn't bad its just a bit large for my taste so I chose the MSuper. Neither company listens to the consumer, most people want large batteries, reliability, and better tech. My first wheel was the MCM4 680 Wh. The way I determined I like to ride(faster and long distance) I only got about 15 miles out of it. The only option that makes sense to me is the Gotway's just because of my needs. Just because I choose Gotway does not mean you will see me in every Kingsong thread discussing how terrible they are. However the opposite does not seem to be true of Kingsong riders. It seems whenever anyone is considering a wheel and someone recommends a Gotway there is inevitably one person that jumps in to say how terrible Gotway is. Many of those bashing either have no experience with Gotway or own a Gotway that has not left them face down or failed. Both manufacturers have their pluses and minuses. Right now if you want something with good power that is going to have a long lasting battery you have your choice between the KS18 from Kingsong or the Monster/MSuper/ACM from Gotway. Many more choices from the Gotway brand and varying wheel sizes. Only one option from Kingsong. I'm sure this will change in the future but for now Gotway is the only choice for people who demand a longer battery life without purchasing a mammoth sized wheel. I might have a different opinion if my Gotway left me face down on the pavement but I also realize this is a risk we all take with these devices regardless of manufacturer. My rant has come to an end........................................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 5 hours ago, GoinPostal said: I think it will do it. My KS18S only has the single battery, so theoretically half the distance. I have done a single non-stop ride of 23 miles on mine, and had 60% battery remaining. This at 250 pound rider weight. Having used the top 40%, and still having the bottom 40% to go would put me in the ballpark of 46 miles. Add the second battery, and 80 miles seems possible.. now drop to Marty weight, it may go forever.. ? It's all theory. I only believe actual reported riding distances from 100% battery to ~10% battery. I don't believe in extrapolation when it comes to batteries and EUCs. Just the facts ma'm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 39 minutes ago, Acturbo said: Eddie, I completely agree with you about the Kingsongs. I'm not disputing anything about the quality differences. I just wish people would stop bashing Gotway every chance they get. It is personal preference, but to attack the other brand is different all together. I would consider Kingsong if they offered an 84V option with a large battery. The KS18 isn't bad its just a bit large for my taste so I chose the MSuper. Neither company listens to the consumer, most people want large batteries, reliability, and better tech. My first wheel was the MCM4 680 Wh. The way I determined I like to ride(faster and long distance) I only got about 15 miles out of it. The only option that makes sense to me is the Gotway's just because of my needs. Just because I choose Gotway does not mean you will see me in every Kingsong thread discussing how terrible they are. However the opposite does not seem to be true of Kingsong riders. It seems whenever anyone is considering a wheel and someone recommends a Gotway there is inevitably one person that jumps in to say how terrible Gotway is. Many of those bashing either have no experience with Gotway or own a Gotway that has not left them face down or failed. Both manufacturers have their pluses and minuses. Right now if you want something with good power that is going to have a long lasting battery you have your choice between the KS18 from Kingsong or the Monster/MSuper/ACM from Gotway. Many more choices from the Gotway brand and varying wheel sizes. Only one option from Kingsong. I'm sure this will change in the future but for now Gotway is the only choice for people who demand a longer battery life without purchasing a mammoth sized wheel. I might have a different opinion if my Gotway left me face down on the pavement but I also realize this is a risk we all take with these devices regardless of manufacturer. My rant has come to an end........................................................................... I'm tired of saying this, so I'm glad to see someone else saying it for change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acturbo Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I'm tired of saying this, so I'm glad to see someone else saying it for change I didn't care before because I didn't really see it. Now every thread Gotway related I'm in its a Gotway bash or a discussion about how your going to get injured riding a Gotway etc etc. Kingsongs don't fail Gotways do..................................Oh you weight 300 pounds and want to go 80 miles on a single charge........get the kingsong 14D or 16S!!!! Its perfect!!!!! Won't leave you on the ground like those stupid Gotways!!!!!!!!! I've owned 17 gotways and just got a 16S and its waay better than a Gotway, one time I had my Gotway and some guy screamed and me and I fell off. Never happened on my Kingsong!!!!!!!!!!!!! My 18S has no trolley handle but who cares the one on the MSuper is in a bad place anyways!!!!!!!!!!!! Seems to be never ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. Pick your wheel, ride, and have a good time. Feel free to discuss and critique the strengths and weaknesses of each product so we all learn what people are experiencing and think. We each will have our own biases, preferences, and different risk aversion levels. It's like Ford versus GM or Honda versus Toyota. There's always a brand favorite. I think we tend to also forget that we all live in different parts of the world. Riding uphill in NYC is likely different than riding up a mountain in California or Germany plus we all are different weights and have varying riding skills. Keep in mind too that number of units sold will have a direct correlation on problem event reporting. Eg. How many Solowheel Xtreme problems have people encountered that were posted on the forums? 2 or 3? Would that make it the best wheel to buy? UniWheel only has one reported issue. No one wants to buy one, but it's not a big problem as we have plenty of other choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 15 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. Pick your wheel, ride, and have a good time. Feel free to discuss and critique the strengths and weaknesses of each product so we all learn what people are experiencing and think. We each will have our own biases, preferences, and different risk aversion levels. It's like Ford versus GM or Honda versus Toyota. There's always a brand favorite. I think we tend to also forget that we all live in different parts of the world. Riding uphill in NYC is likely different than riding up a mountain in California or Germany plus we all are different weights and have varying riding skills. Keep in mind too that number of units sold will have a direct correlation on problem event reporting. Eg. How many Solowheel Xtreme problems have people encountered that were posted on the forums? 2 or 3? Would that make it the best wheel to buy? UniWheel only has one reported issue. No one wants to buy one, but it's not a big problem as we have plenty of other choices. Well said Hunka. Your argument kinda falls apart a little in that Gotway is objectively better. But I get your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 46 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Well said Hunka. Your argument kinda falls apart a little in that Gotway is objectively better at ejecting you off at high speeds! But I get your point I certainly won't argue that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifmeister Posted October 1, 2017 Author Share Posted October 1, 2017 Ok, so back on some Inmotion V8 statistics, Today I did a new test, and drove around 17 km/h. My weight is 96 kg. And had strong headwind in the beginning and strong tail wind at the end (more side wind than tail). No hills, all flat land. With a few tiny bridges and stops, mostly traveling around 24 km on average. I put the tiltback down from 30 km/h to 25 km/h. I used darknessbot to track my ride (no export function and gps?) Quick summary: Distance 17.1 km Battery left 31% Predicted remaining 9.3 km Average speed 22.6 km/h Outside temperature was 15 degrees Celsius Strong wind Battery indicator was on, yellow-red and my speed was being limited slowly. Was still pleasant to drive. My gut feeling tells me that I could drive another 5 km safely. Which would total the maximum distance at 22 km (could be more) Here are all the screenshots of the app: Hope you get some feeling about the distance that can be traveled with this machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acturbo Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 9 hours ago, Clifmeister said: Ok, so back on some Inmotion V8 statistics, Today I did a new test, and drove around 17 km/h. My weight is 96 kg. And had strong headwind in the beginning and strong tail wind at the end (more side wind than tail). No hills, all flat land. With a few tiny bridges and stops, mostly traveling around 24 km on average. I put the tiltback down from 30 km/h to 25 km/h. I used darknessbot to track my ride (no export function and gps?) Quick summary: Distance 17.1 km Battery left 31% Predicted remaining 9.3 km Average speed 22.6 km/h Outside temperature was 15 degrees Celsius Strong wind Battery indicator was on, yellow-red and my speed was being limited slowly. Was still pleasant to drive. My gut feeling tells me that I could drive another 5 km safely. Which would total the maximum distance at 22 km (could be more) Here are all the screenshots of the app: Hope you get some feeling about the distance that can be traveled with this machine. Looks good Clif. You are 9 pounds off my weight and it looks like you ride slightly slower(not a bad thing). I don't think its going to matter which wheel you choose whether it be Kingsong or Gotway. Both are going to give you what you want. I like to have the extra battery available in case I need it so my preference would be the ACM. I attached a ride with my ACM 1300 from last week. This trail was rather hilly so my speed was lower than usual but the hills probably even things out. I started with about 93% battery and ended with around 20%. Your speed and weight are slightly lower so you should get more out of it than I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifmeister Posted October 1, 2017 Author Share Posted October 1, 2017 Looks great, thanks for posting your reference of the ACM, I probably going to save some cash for the ACM 1600. Saw some post about the peddals, maybe a good thing to immediatly buy a peddle set of the msuper and place them on the ACM? Or dont you notice any fatique with the original paddles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acturbo Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Just now, Clifmeister said: Looks great, thanks for posting your reference of the ACM, I probably going to save some cash for the ACM 1600. Saw some post about the peddals, maybe a good thing to immediatly buy a peddle set of the msuper and place them on the ACM? Or dont you notice any fatique with the original paddles? I personally own both wheels and I have no problems with the ACM pedals. I would get it in your hands and see if you have issues and then order pedals if need be. I actually like the ACM pedals as a nice change of pace from the MSuper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifmeister Posted October 1, 2017 Author Share Posted October 1, 2017 14 minutes ago, Acturbo said: I personally own both wheels and I have no problems with the ACM pedals. I would get it in your hands and see if you have issues and then order pedals if need be. I actually like the ACM pedals as a nice change of pace from the MSuper. Will do! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 On 9/30/2017 at 8:35 AM, eddiemoy said: What do you consider heavy? Someone posted a cool graph a while ago showing how anything over 40lbs. crosses a "perceived heaviness" threshold at a rapidly increasing rate. Realistically, there aren't going to be many 18 inch wheels that stay in that weight range with decent sized batteries. I've got high hopes for the 18L on that front. Something like the Gotway Monster is too heavy for me. Anything over 50lbs. is pushing it. That's almost twice as heavy as my current 16 inch wheel that I carry up stairs quite frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifmeister Posted October 7, 2017 Author Share Posted October 7, 2017 Any of you guys has some REAL world mileage examples on the King Song 16S. No theoretical crap of 1km/10wh. I could Not find any videos or sites with real mileage tests... Is 60km for a 95kg driver really possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaughthammer Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 possible, yes. probable? no. Of course, mileage will depend on riding style, speed, terrain, wind, temperature, moon phase etc.... So if you're not in a hurry on a warm summer day with maybe a little wind in the back and no major inclines and cruise at a steady pace, you might get those 60 km out of it, maybe even a bit more. If you blast around in cold weather, with lots of acceleration and braking, some hills to tackle and a headwind to fight, that range can easily be reduced to half of it. So that's why you didn't (and won't) get the one and definite possible range told. Considering the little mileage you get out of your V8, I think it's safe to assume that you won't get a spectacular range out of any wheel without changing your riding style. The larger battery of the KS16s however will be more at ease, thus you will get more effective capacity out of it. My best guess is, that you will get just shy of double range of your V8, at the same riding style and speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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