Ninebot One Z : Z6-Z8-Z10

[US69]

17 minutes ago, that0n3guy said:

I'm not sure why everyone rags on lower voltage.   A modern wheel could be made with lower voltage just fine, you can get the same power out of a 59v as an 84v setup... you just need higher amps.   

Yip...we will see that. Yeah, higher amps can equal a lower voltage...Problem is we are working with batterys that are limited in the amount of Amps they could deliver.

From my experience in EUC higher voltage is/was the key to more powerfull wheels. That goes from 15cells/63 Volt, 16s/67V to the jump that GW/IM does with 84Volt, which was an enourmous powerjump. And now even to 100V on the latest GW Monster...Monstertorque. So i personnaly see it as a Major step back to a 14cell System with 59V. And the only reason 9Bot is doing that is because of a stupid 60V Regulation in the States. Not because it is better...

The max a Z10 can deliver is 59V x 10Amp x 6p = 3540.....a GW V3 or ACM can push 84V x 10Amp * 6p = 5040Watt

Time will tell, i guess what the Z10 is capable of....

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by US69

[RoberAce]

There is certainly very little information about the real feeling of the Z10, there is not much to get information about it. Only numbers, specifications, and conjectures.

[Esash]

Angus Young rags on low voltage too

[Jason McNeil]

On 15/04/2018 at 2:48 PM, Adel said:

Even the presale page shows the E+ pedals and not the ones we liked so much from the original announcment or CES.

Working on this. At the February meeting, the R&D department were reluctant to offer larger pedals citing the mold cost. In light of the V10F pedal layout, I believe that Ninebot are going to have to respond in kind. An option that was discussed was to provide a C&Cd pedal as an optional upgrade.   

Motor Wire Upgrades: there's some good news to report on the motor wires, received this communication yesterday, "The wire diameter on the One Z is thickened, & the plug-in is also used for the terminals fixed by the screws, & the motor phase wire is replaced by the high temperature resistant material." 

On 11/04/2018 at 5:46 AM, Harold Farrenkopf said:

Looks like pre-order for June shipment.

My contact has given mid-May as the start of a limited initial production run. Another month to ship out to the US, so shipping to Customer ought to be mid-June, if everything goes to plan...

On 10/04/2018 at 8:59 AM, Lukasz said:

deliveries of Kingsong KS18L are on the way to Europe...

Although I really like the futuristic look of the Z model, and 4" wide tire,  Kingsong has also something to offer:

• kick to unfold pedals
• embedded in the wheel body retractable handle which will not fall of / break when wheel fall/tumble
• side lights with programmable color and well visible from sides and front of the wheel 
• torque off switch when wheel is lifted from the ground (good for commuters - stairs etc)
• whellog supported + pebble readout supported
• USB out ports
• Option for 2 chargers / fast charging
• most likely lower weight 
• good reputation of KS wheels (so far)
• existing dealer network and good support from KS

Who is your source for this? The latest update I received directly from King Song, yesterday, is that they assembled a new prototype, but production is certainly not going ahead at full steam as of this moment.  "18L we have assembled a new sample today, i will show you later.  Still need some slight changes, Massive production can expect to start end of this month." 

• "kick to unfold pedals" what does this mean?
• "side lights with programmable color and well visible from sides and front of the wheel " All three mfgs support this
•  "Option for 2 chargers / fast charging" is this completely pointless? A ChargeDoctor has offered dual-input support for well over a year, there are many 4-5A  fast-chargers on the market. 

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Cool! Wondering why they do that NOW, though, when apparently production has started (?), instead of in the first place. Do you know of any test failures/mountain fryings or such that appeared recently and might have motivated this?

Not completely sure when this change was made, but it could have been a few months back.

1 hour ago, RoberAce said:

Jason, could be I wrong choosing this wheel?

There's always an element that something new might turn out to be a damp-squid. Those who use an Electric Unicycle are usually inclined to take on a higher calculated risk than the general population; you're going to have to review the available evidence & form your own judgement on what's best for you. 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Jason McNeil

[meepmeepmayer]

2 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

Motor Wire Upgrades: there's some good news to report on the motor wires, received this communication yesterday, "The wire diameter on the One Z is thickened, & the plug-in is also used for the terminals fixed by the screws, & the motor phase wire is replaced by the high temperature resistant material." 

Cool! Wondering why they do that NOW, though, when apparently production has started (?), instead of in the first place. Do you know of any test failures/mountain fryings or such that appeared recently and might have motivated this?

[RoberAce]

10 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

Working on this. At the February meeting, the R&D department were reluctant to offer larger pedals citing the mold cost. In light of the V10F pedal layout, I believe that Ninebot are going to have to respond in kind. An option that was discussed was to provide a C&Cd pedal as an optional upgrade.   

Motor Wire Upgrades: there's some good news to report on the motor wires, received this communication yesterday, "The wire diameter on the One Z is thickened, & the plug-in is also used for the terminals fixed by the screws, & the motor phase wire is replaced by the high temperature resistant material." 

Jason, could be I wrong choosing this wheel?

[Lukasz]

On 4/17/2018 at 5:44 PM, Jason McNeil said:

On 4/10/2018 at 5:59 PM, Lukasz said:

deliveries of Kingsong KS18L are on the way to Europe...

Although I really like the futuristic look of the Z model, and 4" wide tire,  Kingsong has also something to offer:

• kick to unfold pedals
• embedded in the wheel body retractable handle which will not fall of / break when wheel fall/tumble
• side lights with programmable color and well visible from sides and front of the wheel 
• torque off switch when wheel is lifted from the ground (good for commuters - stairs etc)
• whellog supported + pebble readout supported
• USB out ports
• Option for 2 chargers / fast charging
• most likely lower weight 
• good reputation of KS wheels (so far)
• existing dealer network and good support from KS

Who is your source for this? The latest update I received directly from King Song, yesterday, is that they assembled a new prototype, but production is certainly not going ahead at full steam as of this moment.  "18L we have assembled a new sample today, i will show you later.  Still need some slight changes, Massive production can expect to start end of this month." 

• "kick to unfold pedals" what does this mean?
• "side lights with programmable color and well visible from sides and front of the wheel " All three mfgs support this
•  "Option for 2 chargers / fast charging" is this completely pointless? A ChargeDoctor has offered dual-input support for well over a year, there are many 4-5A  fast-chargers on the market. 

1. Source - dealer contact, however soon after the post I have found out that it was slightly overoptimistic message....
2. Kick to unfold - see my earlier post in this thread with simple 3d printed solution for NB pedals - I can share the .stl with those who want to print it -  also see below 
3. I am afraid that lights in Z model are only visible from front/back and not from the sides of the wheel - which is safety feature - I have my lights in KS16S set into RED/BLUE .... works well when you approach street crossing... most of the cars stop...    (maybe drivers know RED + BLUE flashing lights from somewhere???)  ;-)
4. Regarding 2 chargers - of course I own, know and use ChargeDoctor every day...  but not ALL of us know this solution.
5. REQUEST - can You please convince your NB contact to release SW communication protocol to the current author of WheelLog (to support pebble use) or that NB offer other "wirst readout"
6. REQUEST - Can you publish picture / drawing of the Z model with handle retracted (production model) to see how it looks like (demo model handle was cool, but most likely will fall off in the first crash

 

20180416_215620_001.mp4

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Lukasz

[Jerome]

1 hour ago, US69 said:

Yip...we will see that. Yeah, higher amps can equal a lower voltage...Problem is we are working with batterys that are limited in the amount of Amps they could deliver.

From my experience in EUC higher voltage is/was the key to more powerfull wheels. That goes from 15cells/63 Volt, 16s/67V to the jump that GW/IM does with 84Volt, which was an enourmous powerjump. And now even to 100V on the latest GW Monster...Monstertorque. So i personnaly see it as a Major step back to a 14cell System with 59V. And the only reason 9Bot is doing that is because of a stupid 60V Regulation in the States. Not because it is better...

The max a Z10 can deliver is 59V x 10Amp x 6p = 3540.....a GW V3 or ACM can push 84V x 10Amp * 6p = 5040Watt

Time will tell, i guess what the Z10 is capable of....

 

What is "p" and how was it derived?

[Lukasz]

@Jerome  6p means six cells in paralel 

[US69]

1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said:

 "Option for 2 chargers / fast charging" is this completely pointless? A ChargeDoctor has offered dual-input support for well over a year, there are many 4-5A  fast-chargers on the market. 

completly pointless is a bit overstated, or? Chargedoctors cost a bit money, also need another charger(like the double charge port option,too) and for what fast chargers cost we better dont talk....So i find two charge ports very nice!

what is frustrating is there delays....sure they are not "on the way"...they are delayed...thats it :-(

Edited April 17, 2018 by US69

[US69]

4 minutes ago, Lukasz said:

@Jerome  6p means six cells in paralel 

6packs parallel is a bit better description ;-)

[US69]

12 minutes ago, Lukasz said:

Source - dealer contact, however soon after the post I have found out that it was slightly overoptimistic message....

sligtly overoptimistic is a good call!

they have one final sample ready...stillneed to implement some changes ....before even producing starts. Unfortunately

[jojo33]

...from http://bbs.ninebot.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=139221&extra=&page=2

 

[jojo33]

Beta test for 60 users with app are finished (60 betas, 20 for each model)

http://bbs.ninebot.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=139221

[meepmeepmayer]

That's a serious light! Nice!

[z3n]

Few points to be considered:

• On April 10th - Ninebot started local Chinese only Pre-Order campaign right at the same time of Inmotion V10/V10F official release date for limited quantities and long time waiting shipment (June).
• On April 16th - Ninebot started local Chinese only Open Beta testers campaign for limited quantities and requiring full deposit money for the wheels.
• After more than half year since One Z Series were officially announced on August last year, Ninebot is still struggling with testing their products.
• All of those efforts they making is still for local Chinese market only.
• For those familiar with their One P, do you know that they are still available in local Chinese market even though they are known to be problematic and were officially recalled off from Europe and US market? They are NOT discontinued at all.

I might be wrong, but I believe that Ninebot is having some sort of reasons with their One Z Series products at the moment. Especially for making it into Overseas market. Hopefully the history of One P doesn't repeat, but I think I'm losing both my expectation and interest of Z10 now. Cheers guys! 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

It definitely sounds like the constraints of the sub-60V specification are making it challenging for the Ninebot crew to deliver on promises?  I never knew there was a regulation which existed that limited voltages, but looking at their S1/A2/A1 efforts it all sort of makes sense.  It's almost like trying to make a Superbike with an under 250 cc limitation when the rest of the competition are at 1000 cc.  I just hope all their efforts don't result in a dud that will harm their reputation even further after the P problems.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[jojo33]

@z3n

I agree with you 

Ninebot dont need really get foreign market,  I take exemple on first mini : the first released day Ninebot sold 1 million of Mini in China 

Ninebot is very receptive to his chinese customer opinion 

Ninebot  (holding segway patents ) is only a "gate" for giant Xiaomi and all his investment entities 

I even think that Xiaomi is pleased that Europeans and Americans buy cheaper in import, because the cost of repair or exchange are excluded from their obligations, shipping cost and custom cost too 

Xiaomi Mijia Segway Ninebot sell more to Chinese resellers than with their official Segway resellers in each Western country

Xiaomi Mijia Segway Ninebot knows where his products go and who buys them abroad

This is why there is no sanction or prohibition of resale of these products abroad because in fact we are dealing with an economic strategy

 

[novazeus]

at $2000, ninebot will lose me for what they are offering.

[FreeRide]

I will say Ninebot has a history of underpowered devices.... If they have not solved this issue for the Z series they will be dead.  I'm hoping they realized that this wheel has to succeed and that EUC riders are not going to listen to excuses about their battery pack.  It might be possible that they think they can sell it in Asian countries so they are not worried about their small market share now in NA, but I sure hope not.  They did so many good things early on with the EUC, and with the MiniPro, but they have not been able to keep up with the market.  It seems that InMotion has really stepped up, and is targeting NA as well as other regions.  I hope Ninebot can stay in the game, but they really let the cat out of the bag a little early.  I imagine the batteries are not in a suspended frame and as such I worry about the centripetal force that will be applied to them since it appears they are inside the hub.  Crossing my fingers, and hoping that they surprise us all. 

Edited April 17, 2018 by FreeRide

[jojo33]

40 minutes ago, novazeus said:

at $2000, ninebot will lose me for what they are offering.

$ 2000 you make a nice trip
I hope they offer a box of caviar for this price
there are good Gotway at $ 2500 too

[jojo33]

30 minutes ago, FreeRide said:

hat EUC riders are not going to listen to excuses about their battery pack

that's interesting because it brings us back to the Mini PLUS, ECODRIFT was very surprised at the battery of the Mini PLUS

Ecodrift said: " Cells LG MF1. This is 2150 mAh. The maximum discharge current is 10A. A slightly strange choice of inexpensive cells, while cells with a capacity of 3500 mAh are available. Even in the scooters Xiaomi uses 2600 mAh cells. Only 42 cells. The configuration of the battery is 14s3p, i.e. it is designed for a current of 30A"

 

[RoberAce]

the pity is that there is not a serious and deeper review in the whole network, just some very subtle opinion of who tried it for a moment. and I must to say, Chinese people who is the first only beta testers doesn't either makes good reviews and videos

Edited April 18, 2018 by RoberAce

[FreeRide]

20 hours ago, jojo33 said:

that's interesting because it brings us back to the Mini PLUS, ECODRIFT was very surprised at the battery of the Mini PLUS

Ecodrift said: " Cells LG MF1. This is 2150 mAh. The maximum discharge current is 10A. A slightly strange choice of inexpensive cells, while cells with a capacity of 3500 mAh are available. Even in the scooters Xiaomi uses 2600 mAh cells. Only 42 cells. The configuration of the battery is 14s3p, i.e. it is designed for a current of 30A"

 

Before Ecodrift opened it up I commented about the poor battery choice of the Plus.  Maybe they can argue they were keeping costs down on that product.  However, the Z series is a top end product, and by the looks of it has a price to match, so the people buying that one will not settle for a poor power source.  I'm still hopeful they understand all this and are working hard to ensure this.  With a top speed listed of 45km/hr for the Z10, it is clear they know where they have to up their game and giving it their best I think.  I hope they succeed, the market needs them. 

[vido]