Marty Backe Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 11 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: The Wheel Deal Australia recently posted this on FB. Both the 84v MSuper and ACMs are affected! ATTENTION gotway riders that have recently recieved gotway msuper 84v or acm 84v with motor codes starting with 1703 1704 and 1705 there has been a string of cut outs resulting in injurys recently on these models so take care. Will give more info for those effected as i am updated on the situation. So far there have been no 'monsters' effected but take care anyway until we have more information. Other gotway riders dont worry, it seems to be isolated to the 84v models made since late april. I recommend protective equipment especially a helmet. Ride safe and have fun "Ride safe and have fun". Lovely. I hope the one I'm getting from Jason in the next week or so was made in early April 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Will @Jason McNeil will even send out wheels with the affected motor codes before the source of the problem is known? Recall risk might be quite high. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted June 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 minute ago, meepmeepmayer said: Will @Jason McNeil will even send out wheels with the affected motor codes before the source of the problem is known? Recall risk might be quite high. There's a lot of "what ifs" involved. People who have paid for the wheel and waited for weeks are likely going to want their wheel. I do. Unless there's a smoking gun that can be used to definitively identify affected wheels I can't see why people wouldn't want their new EUC. Every wheel is not failing. On the contrary most wheels appear to be working fine. I've got my helmet and pads - I'm ready to roll . Did you get that double entendre? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Maybe a sample of each new wheel should be put through rugged drop testing, repeated rough terrain simulation riding, wet weather conditions, etc to help manufacturers identify weaks spots before they end up being a problem. Hmm, that sounds like what any manufacturer that cared about the quality of the item being manufactured would do! Why is it such a mystery to Gotway?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I think Gotway is just going to review what may have changed during the production batch and see whether there are any weak spots on their end. They might even go as far as to open up a motor to see if there's any areas of improvement that can be made. I don't know if any dealers will be sending complete wheels back to them for analysis or not (likely not?) unless they are in China. Users who have failed wheels likely will get replacement parts starting with control boards as that's the cheapest option followed by motors if they determine that's the issue. Users likely will need to contact their dealers to get customer service just like with any issue. Hopefully the dealers will be able to determine the exact cause of failure. I just hope these are isolated incidents as a mass problem could be very troublesome for everyone. I'm no electrical engineer or even electrician, so servicing the wheel myself is out of the question. And all that sounds like it could add a lot of money to the effective cost of a brand new purchase I haven't even received yet, as well as keep my wheel out of my hands for weeks at a time. I'm pretty unhappy about this. And I hope it won't be as bad as it sounds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, Dingfelder said: I'm no electrical engineer or even electrician, so servicing the wheel myself is out of the question. And all that sounds like it could add a lot of money to the effective cost of a brand new purchase I haven't even received yet, as well as keep my wheel out of my hands for weeks at a time. I'm pretty unhappy about this. And I hope it won't be as bad as it sounds. I've seen lots of fear mongering in the time that I've been following Gotway. To be fair, Gotway doesn't exactly help their cause. But that being said there's an awful lot of happy riders using their Gotway wheels. I think everything will turn out fine. A little stoicism will come in handy here. Don't worry about what hasn't happened yet; the future is not preordained. I for one can't wait to get my wheel and enjoy my summertime ripping up my local trails with my new MSuper V3s+ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Well maybe Gotway does do some internal testing. We just don't know what that testing involves. I'm just speaking out from my own personal speculation as I'm just a guy with a Ninebot and an opinion so take that for what it's worth. I've never ridden anything from Gotway or KingSong for that matter. I bet consumers won't see any price hikes, but they may see delays for affected models if there is a wide spread issue with these batches. I'd play a wait and see approach to see what the dealers report as they will be on the front lines with this issue. I'm really curious to find out what the root cause of the problem is. We see KingSong videos all the time where they ride up and down inclines, steep hills, and crash the wheel down stairs as well as ride around in pools of water. Maybe Gotway doesn't advertise their testing procedures quite as much. Maybe @Tilmann who visited their facilities can comment about that as maybe they showed him what testing they normally do? Even still, testing limited samples may not reveal other problems that only occur in real world situations or what happens over longer usage so it's difficult to say. I think it would help in future development to put a wheel through some sort of rigorous long term tests rather than depend on consumers to report issues. Even with cars like the reliable Toyota Camry, I believe they had to recall a bunch due to accelerator pedals getting stuck. These things happen. With complex systems that are exposed to harsh conditions, we have to expect some things to go wrong. Edited June 14, 2017 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adel Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) I had temporary moment of insanity last weekend when I was contemplating upgrading to an Msuper v3s+. I'm happy to report that with this latest news I'm cured... for now I hope to continue to have the strength to resist the urge to volunteer as Gotway test crash pilot. Edited June 14, 2017 by Adel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Adel said: I had temporary moment of insanity last weekend when I was contemplating upgrading to an Msuper v3s+. I'm happy to report that with this latest news I'm cured... for now I hope to continue to have the strength to resist the urge to volunteer as Gotway crash pilot. Buy an ACM V2s+ instead. It is the best all around EUC available. The Gotway gravity well is very strong and hard to resist for long 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adel Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 16 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Buy an ACM V2s+ instead. It is the best all around EUC available. The Gotway gravity well is very strong and hard to resist for long I'm just going to gather enough will and stick with my ks16 a little longer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kour Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I've got my helmet and pads - I'm ready to roll . Did you get that double entendre? rooolll, roll like the wind!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kour Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 if i'm not mistaken, this plastic sleeve around rehab1's motor wire is also implemented with the same batch of msupers? that means that msupers prior are also, 'hanging by a thread(ed insulation jacket!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I've seen lots of fear mongering in the time that I've been following Gotway. To be fair, Gotway doesn't exactly help their cause. But that being said there's an awful lot of happy riders using their Gotway wheels. I think everything will turn out fine. A little stoicism will come in handy here. Don't worry about what hasn't happened yet; the future is not preordained. I for one can't wait to get my wheel and enjoy my summertime ripping up my local trails with my new MSuper V3s+ Well I'm thinking it will be amazing too. I just hope Gotway didn't do anything stupid. Especially since I frankly can't afford to get injured. I have too many responsibilities both at home and at work and some of them are very physical. I'm okay with small risks, but small or large, I don't want them to be simply unnecessary. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OliverH Posted June 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2017 7 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Rule number one of EUC manufacturing - never discount the power of "Bad woo woo" in the "yu lu" during design and assembly. I think a big challenge here is for manufacturers to design and build these wheels for rugged stress situations. Users are going to ride these wheels off-road and crash them with wipe-outs. Imagine taking your laptop and toss it out the window of your car at 22 kph and expect it to continue functioning every time that happens. Without any suspension components other than the tire and inner tube, everything is subject to jarring motions and vibrations as the EUC travels over various surfaces. If everyone were to only ride over level polished concrete and never crash their wheel accidentally, a lot of these problems likely wouldn't occur. Imagine how long your car would last if you removed the shocks and springs, drove it off-road, and crashed it every so often. Maybe a sample of each new wheel should be put through rugged drop testing, repeated rough terrain simulation riding, wet weather conditions, etc to help manufacturers identify weaks spots before they end up being a problem. Speaking in general: If we say a manufacturer we think about a company like an automotive company. This comparison is not true to the EUCs. Some so called EUC manufacturer made the move from assembling on the floor up to mounting the parts on the table. They produce the EUC in small batches. Each batch could be different (configuration management) to the other batch. There's no real quality testing/ testing again defined requirements/ a test book. If they state an EUC is specified to 120/ 150 kg than is that because of market needs and not that it's really specified for. They never made real stress tests with that weight. Searching the web you can find funny videos when they ride an EUC with two people to simulate this weights for a short time. Safe to ride: This wheels having a "safe" feeling today. "Safe" that it don't wobble at higher speeds and it takes curves today much more better than 2 years ago. But this EUCs having no safety features (dealing with thresholds and off threshold situations) by today. If a relevant component fails like reported here the EUC just fail. This is the basics to get a type approval or a certification for PLEV to be street legal in Europe 2018 and beyond. This manufacturers have to make such a big move: - having a product meeting the safety requirements from standards/ laws producing a type: Each batch is similar to the certified type. - parts from supplier are tested/ checked to meet requirements - The products are going through a defined quality process. A couple of a batch are tested against a test book. Not this kind of tests we see today. - the manufacturer knows (10 years records) what is produced in which batch. If a customer/ dealer needs parts he can supply a serial number (not the motor number) and the manufacturer knows about all parts (serial number of the motor (supplier, batch number), the pcb revision, initial firmware revision at production, batteries used (supplier, batch number),..) 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 The link below is a post on Gotway's FB site. Maybe more GW owners will come forward. We need some answers! https://www.facebook.com/groups/GotWay/permalink/1470377636353887/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post esaj Posted June 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, Marty Backe said: The mitigating factor is their small mass - hopefully even with all the vibration and jarring that our wheels experience, the stress on the wires is very low. And that must be the case since we hear of so few hall sensor failures - usually only when someone tries to rewire their motor.Oops, did I say that I don't recall hearing of the legs snapping off or breaking during riding, usually if there's a hall-sensor problem, it's the connector between the mainboard and the motor cabling, on a couple of occasions a sensor has become loose inside the motor after a hard crash or if the wheel was dropped (not lately, I don't think there have been cases in the last year or so, and even then they were generics?). The stator's not turning, so I'd think only major forces affecting the legs/wiring are bumps and drops, and like you said, there's not much mass on these (mainly the wiring, the sensor itself is glued onto the stator and weighs next to nothing by itself anyway). Not sure if anyone has ever proven it, but it's been mentioned many times that likely the firmware switches over to "sensorless mode" in higher speeds, and just estimates the rotor position and speed, so the hall-sensors would only be used for start up (to know the starting position of the rotor) and at low speeds. Presumably because of latency and possibly noisy output of the sensor with higher rotational speeds? For a single physical rotation of the tire (one turn), there's multiple "electrical rotations" (ie. switching between the phases) as there are so many poles / magnets in the motors. See for example https://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/b/motordrivecontrol/archive/2014/05/23/mind-spinning-possibilities-hall-effect-sensor-bandwidth-in-bldc-motors (Do note that they speak of a motor with much lower amount of poles than the usual wheel-motor, and probably their own hall-sensor, to which this appears be marketing material for is likely faster/has higher bandwidth than the cheaper ones) Edited June 14, 2017 by esaj 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 FYI... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 5 hours ago, esaj said: I don't recall hearing of the legs snapping off or breaking during riding, usually if there's a hall-sensor problem, it's the connector between the mainboard and the motor cabling, on a couple of occasions a sensor has become loose inside the motor after a hard crash or if the wheel was dropped (not lately, I don't think there have been cases in the last year or so, and even then they were generics?). The stator's not turning, so I'd think only major forces affecting the legs/wiring are bumps and drops, and like you said, there's not much mass on these (mainly the wiring, the sensor itself is glued onto the stator and weighs next to nothing by itself anyway). Not sure if anyone has ever proven it, but it's been mentioned many times that likely the firmware switches over to "sensorless mode" in higher speeds, and just estimates the rotor position and speed, so the hall-sensors would only be used for start up (to know the starting position of the rotor) and at low speeds. Presumably because of latency and possibly noisy output of the sensor with higher rotational speeds? For a single physical rotation of the tire (one turn), there's multiple "electrical rotations" (ie. switching between the phases) as there are so many poles / magnets in the motors. See for example https://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/b/motordrivecontrol/archive/2014/05/23/mind-spinning-possibilities-hall-effect-sensor-bandwidth-in-bldc-motors (Do note that they speak of a motor with much lower amount of poles than the usual wheel-motor, and probably their own hall-sensor, to which this appears be marketing material for is likely faster/has higher bandwidth than the cheaper ones) Very interesting theory about "sensorless mode". That would make me feel better (not that I worry much about it) when traveling fast. Even if a sensor were to fail the wheel wouldn't stop immediately. Let's hope this is the case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Carlos E Rodriguez Posted June 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2017 new safety gear requirements. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Very interesting theory about "sensorless mode". That would make me feel better (not that I worry much about it) when traveling fast. Even if a sensor were to fail the wheel wouldn't stop immediately. Let's hope this is the case. Yeah, I think it was discussed in the (custom) Firmware-thread in the Mods-section or elsewhere in the forums... I don't know if it's true or not, it's all speculation since no-one knows how the firmware of each wheel actually works in a detailed level, and the manufacturers are unlikely to reveal much technical details. Some things can be deduced and partially backed just by inspecting the electronics on the boards (like that they likely use FOC or such, as BLDC-trapezoidal control wouldn't require current sensing to my knowledge, and the motors appear to be PMSM's anyway), but lots of it is just guesswork. Edited June 14, 2017 by esaj 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tilmann Posted June 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) 17 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: We see KingSong videos all the time where they ride up and down inclines, steep hills, and crash the wheel down stairs as well as ride around in pools of water. Maybe Gotway doesn't advertise their testing procedures quite as much. Maybe @Tilmann who visited their facilities can comment about that as maybe they showed him what testing they normally do? Even still, testing limited samples may not reveal other problems that only occur in real world situations or what happens over longer usage so it's difficult to say. I think it would help in future development to put a wheel through some sort of rigorous long term tests rather than depend on consumers to report issues. Even with cars like the reliable Toyota Camry, I believe they had to recall a bunch due to accelerator pedals getting stuck. These things happen. With complex systems that are exposed to harsh conditions, we have to expect some things to go wrong. Uuuuh, this is gone be a long one ... but since you asked ... lemme try try to shed some light on the extent of quality assurance (QA) we may realistically expect from our wheels. And why I am rather surprised, that 9 out of 10 eWheels seem to work flawlessly. Visiting the GotWay fab in May 2016, I was expecting something more than what I had seen on the usual pictures. You know, those 4 long work benches showing GW wheels in various stages of assembly. But: that's pretty much it! There's a small office area with people working on PCs, a couple of soldering places with little else but a soldering iron and some reels of cables and adaptors and some side rooms with loose piles of motors or cartons with supplies or finished products readied for shipment. And, at the time, a single prototype of the new MsuperV3 kept in the directors office. I have not seen any test bed (like for example the stationary test rig of electro-sport.de), no sophisticated measuring equipment (like an oscilloscope), no specialized assembly setups (other than electric hand tools), let alone any automated machinery, robots or the like. I have probably seen like 15 people working on site and was told the staffing goal for 2016 to be 30 employees. Also notably absent: Signs with working instructions, parts lists, check lists, tables with spec limits or the likes - very basic measures of QA I'm familiar with from "back home". "Here's a picture of what it should look like. If your work result looks different, we likely got a problem". Now, I may not have seen everything or was occupied by other things as I got all excited when I was allowed to test ride the MsuperV3 prototype in between the assembly lines. But recent events seem to confirm my observations at the GW "manufactory". Speedyfeet reported receiving an entire delivery of Msuper3's with left pedals being mounted to both sides of the wheels ("What's wrong with this picture?"). A friend just took delivery of a new Msuper V2 this month: Bluetooth didn't work. He found the little BT "piggyback" board thoroughly glued in place on the main board (as it should be), but its connector pins were in the wrong position (indicating 1. a design flaw as such connections should be coded, 2. sloppy assembly without control steps and 3. the absence of functional testing of the final product). Speculation time: what QA-risks are we exposed to: 1. Product design: Other than the famous pictures of the small indoor incline test ramp used by KingSong and IPS, I have not seen any special testing setups. With any new design, I have to assume, that some dare devil test rider takes a prototype to the streets and off-road tracks and maybe some puddles of water. If it survives the abuse those test riders can come up with, it's ready for production. While it is touching to see an asian tester taking another person on his shoulders to approximate the weight of a "westener" during a test ride, this is of course worlds apart from systematic and reproducible testing under all conceivable usage and environmental conditions. 2. Component/final assembly: there might be different "shades of grey" between manufacturers, but I would be very surprised to find automotive like standards with any present EUC producer. This is the area, where exceptional dealers like @Jason McNeil, @1RadWerkstatt, Speedyfeet and others can help with additional checks of the products they receive. But frankly, we can hardly expect them to perform full functional testing and still sell at affordable prices. The ones moving higher quantities may be able to persuade manufacturers into higher QA awareness and efforts. 3. "Supply Chain Management": there's something very unique and fascinating about Shenzhen: the "Huaqiangbei electronics mall". Picture many, many warehouses, each one the size of a larger Macys department store and each one specialized on electronic components. Like an entire Macys for LEDs. Or logic ICs. Or passive SMD components (resistors, capacitors, etc.). And each of these warehouses is composed of a myriad of tiny stalls, stuffed all the way to the ceiling with, say, SMD reels with diodes. That's a "Maker's dream"! Just like we hit a grocery market with the recipe for tonight's dinner, you can go to these warehouses with a parts list for your ewheel controller PCB and come back home with all the components you need to produce 500 of them (and still money left for groceries). And I'm sure, you'll find an infrastructure of services to produce your PCB and mount the items from your shopping bag to it just as easily. (If you are interested in these amazing capabilities, the flowing boundaries between "Makers" and commercial production and the fascinating spirit that goes with it, I can recommend spending an hour here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY). To me, this convenient electronics market place is both a huge advantage for rapid product development and a dangerous burden for quality management of the production. Since you cited Toyota's quality as a reference point: I worked for many years in the semiconductor industry, producing components for automotive applications. Quite regularly, we have seen audit teams of the big car makers turning both the entire production line upside down and also scrutinizing the IT side of QA. Many QA improvements were introduced as a direct consequence of those audits. And when the chips are delivered to such clients, a matching huge compilation of data from measurements and testing is transferred in parallel to the client. And there have been a number of embarrassing moments, when clients analyzed those data sets and pointed out weak spots in our production line, we did not find ourselves. Just two basic examples: Look at these 2 result sets from temperature testing. Both are perfectly inside the specified limits, i.e. the chips passed the test. Which of the 2 would you expect to fail with just a bit higher or lower temperature than actually tested? Correct, the second one. It is still a sellable product, but you would not ship that one to your quality sensitive prime customer. Second example (so called "Part Average Testing" or PAT): Say, you produced 1000 chips and measured a specific parameter. Again, all those dots up there are well inside the spec limits, so all chips are "good". But it's easy to see, that 998 of the chips group nicely in the same area and just 2 stand out. Which would you expect likelier to fail? Even without any knowledge of what caused those 2 "outliers", they would never be shipped to an automotive customer for any safety critical application (the company I worked for used them for destructive testing to find the cause of the deviation, others just put them in different sales channels). Now take your guess, which category of components will end up in the bazaar like shops in the Shenzhen electronics market? Taking an analogy with 3D printers: Nowadays, you can buy a printer with good QA from upscale brands like Ultimaker, formlabs or Prusa and be fairly sure it works as advertised. Or you buy a "knock-off", built from those Shenzhen warehouse components with no Supply Chain Management and little QA for as little as 10% to 20% of the price. I was surprised to find some extra sensors, switches and even a spare mainboard thrown into the parts bag of kit printers I bought, obviously in expectation of a high component failure rate. Bottom line: Bashing GotWay for quality screw-ups is tempting, but I am rather surprised, how many good wheels they manage to ship out under these conditions. Only very few of us would be willing and able to foot the US$5000+ bill for an ACM built to automotive quality standards. While rightfully demanding QA improvements and honoring the efforts of responsible distributors for the good cause, we need to stay aware of the fact, that we are all potential crash test dummies riding prototype devices to some extent. Edited June 14, 2017 by Tilmann 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Very interesting description. They build something from parts, other than that they don't know much more than we do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted June 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2017 22 minutes ago, Tilmann said: <snip> Bottom line: Bashing GotWay for quality screw-ups is tempting, but I am rather surprised, how many good wheels they manage to ship out under these conditions. Only very few of us would be willing and able to foot the US$5000+ bill for an ACM built to automotive quality standards. While rightfully demanding QA improvements and honoring the efforts of responsible distributors for the good cause, we need to stay aware of the fact, that we are all potential crash test dummies riding prototype devices to some extent. Fantastic post! I enjoyed it very much. You have to wonder if there are parts of Gotway that we just don't see. Where are the shells designed, prototyped, etc? Where is the firmware designed? The control boards? EUCs are like the early PC days when you could only own a PC if you bought a kit and built it yourself. We're fortunate that some Chinese companies decided to make them for a bit of profit, and I assume the owners of Gotway, KingSong, etc. are just as passionate about this technology as we are. My expectations are appropriately set (low) and I continue to be surprised and happy with my experiences so far. I'll be forever disappointed if I expect Gotway to produce BMW's 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tilmann Posted June 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2017 37 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Fantastic post! I enjoyed it very much. You have to wonder if there are parts of Gotway that we just don't see. Where are the shells designed, prototyped, etc? Where is the firmware designed? The control boards? Thanks for the flowers, Marty! Oh, and I'm sure, there might have been many things I overlooked. What I am fairly sure of: I think I would have recognized a CAD workstation if there was one. And I don't recall any telltale signs of shell design, like 3D printers or printed parts or classic clay design studies. My assumption: it's not economical for GW to employ the required skills and invest in the required tools to do that in-house. Most likely, they used external partners to do such design work for them (which should be very easy and cheap in this fertile product breeding ground called Shenzhen). What makes me doubt my own senses: I completely missed the opportunity to find out, where the firmware comes from! That's a bummer! I have no idea, whether I may have stood right next to some person developing it, or the firmware might be just another purchased component from external sources. I am worried, the latter could be closer to the truth as I also didn't see anything that looked like hardware to flash firmware to a controller board (but then, such utilities easily fit in a desk drawer). Tsss, I could bang my head to the wall all day for my own stupidity 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sleepy Posted June 14, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) I also have a problem with this series (GotWay MSuper3S+ 1600) (1704). The wheel was bought 2 weeks ago. The distance is 150 km. The speed is about 5-7 kilometers per hour. The battery was charged 90%. Has handed over in repair. I'm waiting. Fortunately, I was dressed in defense and not injured. Edited June 14, 2017 by Sleepy 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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