abinder3 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 4 hours ago, KingSong69 said: No, sorry, seams there is a small lack of understanding self balance units.. the wheel only does only one thing...it always trys to hold the pedals in horizontal! when you push forward...i mean lean forward...you give pressure on the pedals in front! that makes the wheel turn forward, and so the pedals do not dip in front direction...because of the wheel moving forward... If you lean in very strong...the wheel HAS TO accelerate very strong....if it would not do that: you would fall over in front! This is what is meant with: the force you give in, the wheel always has to give back by accelerate... But there a borders, for example their is only a certain kind of motor or batterie power! Thats also the reason why EUCs do not have a "max kmh" where they do Not accelerate anymore....because when you lean in on lets say the "aanounced max kmh" the wheel HAS TO react....otherwise you would fall over to the front... thats exactly why all wheels go higher and higher with their speed...until there is no more batterie power to go higher and a cut off comes! The wheel can only tell you by beep, tiltbacking a bit, vibrations, speaking or so...that you are near finish...but it can not slow down from itself or "just stay at a certain kmh" ...because reaction to your forces is a must.... I guess that you are entitled to your 'thinking you understand it all' opinion. I'm done with this conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 6 hours ago, abinder3 said: don't you think that they could 'tell' the wheel in the firmware the maximum torque to apply for a given situation ? I would say yes. I don't see though how limiting the torque could help to prevent falling off the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 1 hour ago, abinder3 said: I guess that you are entitled to your 'thinking you understand it all' opinion. I'm done with this conversation. Hmm, I got here late, but I thought he gave a good explanation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 On 10/18/2016 at 9:40 PM, abinder3 said: I'm pretty sure is the stock protective cover by InMotion. This one: https://www.ewheels.com/product/inmotion-v5f-protective-cover/ Wow, it's so nice, I thought it was custom. More EUC companies should make a nice cover like this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noillek Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 On 10/18/2016 at 5:50 PM, Jason McNeil said: @Noillek Yeah, something's definitely not right, especially in light of your experience of the V5F! V8 is/should-be the V5F on steroids, everything is uprated—control-board can pump out a lot more power (~3.5KW peak) than the V5Fs, battery pack contains the more powerful MH1 cells & of course the motor is a significant upgrade. What version FW are you using? I've just clocked over 1000km on mine, so far it's never missed a heartbeat. I'm using the latest Firmware version, by head should be something like 1.09.xxx. Have been riding more this last few days and I confirm that V8 is a great stable, comfortable wheel... and works great. But it does react slower on everything that i do compared with V5F that i had. Let me use it more and see if i still stick to the same impression... in my opinion the V8 is just a wonderful stable and easy to learn wheel for the masses while the V5F was an incredible little Daredevil and both keeping the safe and reliable performance that INMOTION introduced on the Unicycle World, the best brand that i tried so far. Thank you Jason On 10/18/2016 at 6:09 PM, houseofjob said: Grrrrr..... why is no one mentioning this to the newbies? Hard Acceleration / Hard Braking is otherwise known as Overlean (you shouldn't be doing it)!!! This applies to all EUCs regardless. (just look up almost any make/model on this forum and you'll find an uneducated new rider claiming supposed phantom cutouts, which ultimately turn out to be from accelerating too hard). You can make any EUC cutout by suddenly overleaning hard enough, this is a protection manufacturers implement to prevent sudden current spikes from damaging / burning your motor. Yes, you might be getting away with a harder acceleration on the lower nominal power 550W InMotion V5F variants, but you also do not have the same amount of current surge potential (thus lower top speed) in those lesser wattage wheels (ex. SoloWheel / SW Extreme riders also rave about being able to do hard accelerations as well, but these wheels are even less power, less top speed). Higher Power = Higher Current = Higher Ease of being able to Overlean cutout. The only concern here IMO is why there was no overpower warning sound. Makes sense what you explain and you might be right, i think that i was just so used to the V5F and knew so well all his limits that i never had any issue with Overlean. Might have went to confident on the V8 and push further than it should... the V8 works fine and after diagnose everything is correct, last firmware, it just feels very different from the V5F that i owned and i got so easily used to the nimbleness. Thank you houseofjob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Noillek said: On 10/18/2016 at 6:09 PM, houseofjob said: Higher Power = Higher Current = Higher Ease of being able to Overlean cutout. Makes sense what you explain and you might be right The main reason why EUCs don't use <350W motors is that they are too easy to out-lean, they are just not safe. More power means more reserve to keep the EUC balanced. For any given voltage, more current comes along with more power and with more torque which is what will prevent out-leaning (assuming, of course, all components are designed for this current). To maintain this torque also the battery must be sufficiently large/performant to not experience a (possibly dramatic) voltage drop under the demanded current. On the other hand, even if the V8 is the more powerful wheel (also after accounting for the different wheel size^1), without knowing their specific characteristics, we cannot know for any specific speed which wheel actually provides more torque. For example, a wheel designed for higher max speed will typically have less torque at lower speeds than a wheel with the same power but lower max speed. ^1 800W/16" / (550W/14") = 1.27..., that is, in principle the V8 should have 27% more sustained power and torque on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 On 10/19/2016 at 3:53 AM, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said: It's pretty tricky to determine what is the maximum acceleration a wheel can handle. Leaning quickly forwards applying a lot of tilting force to the pedals will need to be countered by enough increase in driving force to keep the rider in balance. Judging by what we see in some complicated current/voltage graphs, there might be different amounts of acceleration available to be had at different speeds. The basics are actually not that complicated, torque goes (in principle linearly) down with increasing speed (shown are torque, current, power, and efficiency, all vs speed): At first sight surprising, also the maximal current (=Amps) goes down with increasing speed, as the back EMF goes up. The decreasing torque is aligned with the current. This could be the reason why we see low-speed cutouts on some wheels (IIRC Kingsong 16), namely as a protection for over-current. In practice, maximal current and torque might be limited and we might see something like this (red): but I don't know whether this applies to EUCs as well. EDIT: what I didn't realize before: these graphs suggest that the reason for high-speed cut-outs will never be an over-current. Source: https://evmc2.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/electric-motor-power-really-simple-and-hp-ratings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noillek Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 1 hour ago, MoNo said: The basics are actually not that complicated, torque goes (in principle linearly) down with increasing speed (shown are torque, current, power, and efficiency vs speed): At first sight surprising, also the maximal current goes down with increasing speed, as the current is aligned with the decreasing torque. This could be the reason why we see low-speed cutouts on some wheels (IIRC Kingsong 16), namely as a protection for over-current. In practice, maximal current and torque might be limited and we might see something like this: but I don't know whether this applies to EUCs as well. EDIT: what I didn't realize before: these graphs suggest that the reason for high-speed cut-outs will never be an over-current. Thank you for sharing, is always nice to have a visual support of a behavior of a performance machine. I might have pass the lean angle that shutdowns the engine, and against that theirs nothing wrong with the wheel. I just over-lean that triggered the cutoff. Right now we are the pioneers of a new mobility device, many more versions and safety features will be developed currently there are limitations that we need to stick to them... love to ride the V8 as i loved to ride the V5F... its always a great fun and above all super convenient for carry me from A to B in a fast and efficient way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 2 hours ago, Noillek said: I might have pass the lean angle that shutdowns the engine, I have doubts that there is such an angle. I don't see a good reason why there should be. There is an angle that prevents turning the wheel on, but there shouldn't be any forward-backward angle you can reach while on the pedals that turns the wheel off. Quote and against that theirs nothing wrong with the wheel. I just over-lean that triggered the cutoff. Over-lean should never trigger a cut-off, ever. Never. Ever. You might fall off the wheel because it cannot provide enough torque, but the wheel should never cut off while you are still on I guess that in the heat of the moment it might be difficult know, but are you sure the wheel cut off, or could it be that it just didn't provide sufficient torque to keep it upright to stay on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 17 hours ago, abinder3 said: I guess that you are entitled to your 'thinking you understand it all' opinion. I'm done with this conversation. ??? can then some else tell me what was wrong with my explanation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 17 hours ago, KingSong69 said: ??? can then some else tell me what was wrong with my explanation? I don't think the reason was so much that there was something wrong with the explanation^1, and your point that there is no real distinction between balancing and speed change was well taken. I think the reason was rather the displayed confidence and somewhat personalized introduction by saying "No, sorry, seams there is a small lack of understanding self balance units..". ^1 Even though that "EUCs do not have a "max kmh" where they do Not accelerate anymore" seems to be wrong, as the above graphs suggest. It seems that the motors of EUCs do have natural speed limitations which do not come from battery limitations but from the limitation of how electric motors work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
em1barns Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 @Jason McNeil, any news from inmotion regarding the prototype pads you had shown a while ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 3 hours ago, em1barns said: @Jason McNeil, any news from inmotion regarding the prototype pads you had shown a while ago? The info I got was they made a batch for testing, but because of the increased width at the top edge, they deemed it counter productive for increasing the comfort of the Wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
em1barns Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 8 hours ago, Jason McNeil said: The info I got was they made a batch for testing, but because of the increased width at the top edge, they deemed it counter productive for increasing the comfort of the Wheel. Thanks, that's what I thought, I guess we will have to wait for a new revision. I guess they chose the side trolley over the better v5 option due to the increased height of the v8, which itself is due to the battery position on top. And changing the battery position would have an effect on the driving and turning abilities of the wheel. Conclusion: design is likely to stay as is . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noillek Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Hi, I've exploring the app and the V8... and even after recalibrate de wheel I still get that the pedal angle at 0* in the app I leaning backwards and to achieve 0* real as in the picture attached I need to set the app to +3* are your V8's the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noillek Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Also found a few things, image attached... in the app. 1) in the App my SCV ranking never counts anything in the V8, also had the same issue ont the V5F, I'm using iPhone6. 2) some of my settings menu are in Chinese even thought I setup for English. Any tips are welcome. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 4 hours ago, em1barns said: I guess they chose the side trolley over the better v5 option due to the increased height of the v8, which itself is due to the battery position on top. Comfort could be better with the V8, I wish they stuck with the V5 design for the 16", the height difference is only a couple cm. Has the advantages of being more slender, comfortable, elegant, & that wonderful external handle is better for the weight specification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoDrift Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 How to disassemble Inmotion V8 i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 There was new Inmotion app released yesterday (6.2.1) with new / redesigned SCV screen but I must say I'm a bit unsure how to feel about this one ... They’ve removed the "power Off" button which I was using daily, reshuffled the rest and added the second “side swipe” screen which effectively killed the option to switch between multiply registered devices by side swipe so now the only option to switch / select devices is by tiny button in the middle of the screen and the selecting from the list on the screen (meaning that you need to actually look at the screen instead of possibility to select / switch device “blindly”) The main Speed indicator is now smaller (hence harder to read) with added indicator for trip distance. The board temperature indicator was (re-)moved to the second screen adding now unnecessary swiping all the time. There are now only 3 action buttons on the main screen – BT connection button (with auto connect), Headlight Switch and “Light Effect” (LED) button which though surprisingly is not to turn the LED light off and on but to access the configuration of the LED lights which I believe is a mistake / bug and hopefully the original intention was to control the LED lights instead. The Power off and Settings buttons were removed and settings are now available by swiping right to secondary SCV screen. This screen shows on the top total mileage, average speed for the last trip and (re-)moved board temperature. Rest is the same like previously accessed configuration screen via Settings button in older version of the app (minus the Light control toggle switch). I personally find this version worse than the last one so I’ll most likely return to version 6.1.1 as it suits my needs better. The bug with crashing app while accessing some of the DIY LED patterns has not been resolved / fixed in this version and that was the main reason why I’ve updated the app. Also app still requires to be connected to the wheel prior the ride otherwise it will not display any (or correct) current trip data. I’ve not found any changes or additions to other screens. The “schizophrenic” dual SCV screens with related ride infos and controls scattered across two separate screens are IMO less than impressive … Pros: - BT Auto-connect (also see Cons below though) - Average speed has been added to SCV screen (also see Cons below though) Cons / Bugs: - BT Auto Connect (if you have multiply registered devices or suffer from regular BT disconnects during ride): There seems to be no way of disabling this feature so the app constantly pools BT / Searches for the wheel draining the mobile’s battery unnecessarily while running. The only option is either to disable BT or close the app. It also tends to disconnect and re-connect repeatedly during the ride triggering the connection / disconnection sound notification making this extremely unpleasant. The another issue is that it always tries to connect only to the first (last added?) device on your list of devices instead of either trying both / all or at least remembering the one to which it was connected last to so if your “main” device happens to be second or further down the list it will never connect to it automatically and it’s now much more difficult to connect to such device as you need to lick on tiny “+” icon on the main SCV screen and then select the device from the list (unlike the previous versions where you could simply swipe the SCV screen to change the device and it would (auto) connect right away. - Related to above Con: It’s not possible to order / shuffle around the devices on your list to “prioritize” to which device would app connect by default - Power Off button has been removes from SCV screen - Board temperature was moved to “secondary” SCV screen requiring swiping between two screens to see all “crucial” ride data - Total mileage was moved to “secondary” SCV screen (where is also the average speed shown) requiring swiping between two screens to see all “crucial” ride data - Speed indicator is now smaller and might be harder to read on some screens or by some users - “Light Effect” button on the main SCV screen should turn off / on LED lights instead of opening the configuration (also see point below) - Light toggle switch was removed from the settings (now secondary SCV) screen making it impossible (together with above point) to switch both lights at one screen - Board temperature in the secondary SCV screen have Chinese title in the English version (amongst many other still untranslated or poorly translated texts) - Default app screen is still the main social “Moment” tab instead of the (more logical) SCV screen - The current trip Distance and Average speed doesn’t work (or display correct values) if the app is not connected to the wheel prior the ride - The biggest Con (IMO) is that the notification bar / quick access option was removed with this version so there is no more option to see the battery level or control the light without having the main app opened. I’m not sure if this was intentional change or just mistake / overlook though? Old version (up to version 6.1.1): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenvo Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 They have released an incremental ver 6.2.2 today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noillek Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Just got the update today, on IOS... looks great. Havent went for a ride yet, but looks good the design and the avg speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 On 27/10/2016 at 3:18 PM, HEC said: Cons / Bugs: - BT Auto Connect (if you have multiply registered devices or suffer from regular BT disconnects during ride): There seems to be no way of disabling this feature so the app constantly pools BT / Searches for the wheel draining the mobile’s battery unnecessarily while running. The only option is either to disable BT or close the app. It also tends to disconnect and re-connect repeatedly during the ride triggering the connection / disconnection sound notification making this extremely unpleasant. *1 - “Light Effect” button on the main SCV screen should turn off / on LED lights instead of opening the configuration (also see point below) *2 As already mentioned by @stevenvo IM released a "quick fix" 6.2.2 version on Friday addressing the issue with failed installs on Android 6.0 devices. You'd also need to remove all already registered wheels and re-add them again to your list. *1 The bug with impossibility to cancel the BT device search remains. You can only disable the automatic search while connected to the wheel by pressing the Disconnect button after which the app will not search for the wheel anymore until restart. However if the wheel is turned off / out of range you have no way of doing so. IMO clicking on the button in the search state shall cancel the search as well. *2 Another point supporting my theory about this being bug is that if you click on the "Light Effect" button on the main SCV screen while not connected to the wheel it will notify you that app is not connected but when you click on the Light Effect option in the Second SCV screen (both currently opening the DIY light configuration screen) it will open even if not connected. I've poked one of the IM representatives / employees directly via IM app to see if they'll respond to the comments and complains about the latest changes to the app. One thing we should though keep in mind is that the same app caters for all IM's products including just now released P1 so the design of the app needs to take in consideration all possible devices with various configuration and control options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 EDIT: Board "double posted" my last submission here ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abinder3 Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 My iOS app looks like the above photos, but for some reason it still states "v6.0.0(144). It updated on October 28. Shouldn't it show a different version. (I believe that it was showing version "V6.0.0" even before the last update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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