Extremebull Commander Pro (134.4v,3600wh,suspension)

[Freeforester]

2 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

We did a messy ride with over 20 people out towards Mississauga. All the 126+v wheels just bombed ahead and were gone. The rest of the group were fighting for their life to catch up at the back and I mean wayyy in the back. A master stayed at the back to escort the slower riders. Some issues happened at the back and word spread to the riders at the front. They had to ride an entire 10km or so back to check out what happened.

The gap between the speed capable wheels is just huge if the gap was 10km in only 20-25 or so minutes. That means I was holding about 70kmh (not sure on exact gps speed), they had to be going 90kmh or so for that gap to happen. So after that I just need a faster wheel. I cant keep up with the guys pushing on their masters, even if they have less range. We charge in 40km intervals usually. By the time they get to the charge point and charge back up i'll just have reached the charge point and they're gone again

Being in the second tier, you can take comfort from the fact that at least you’ll have had the benefit of a freed up charge point.
 

If you feel you must be first, or in the first group, then crack on, your place at the awards ceremony awaits you. If you ride for the thrill of speed then the fastest wheel would be the V13 meantime - you’ve got the charging points ahead, as you say. If your speedy mates are riding as a swarm and making an hour on the rest of the peleton, then they are always going to be a separate group, and sooner or later the penny will drop that your group ride will evolve into groups rides. Choose your group, according to your risk/reward threshold, light the blue touch paper and off you go - don’t forget to pack your super capacitors and inform your next of kin, just in case.

[KiwiMark]

It really sounds to me like some group rides should be split up into two groups. The real speed demons should make up their own group and organise the place and time to meet and go for a screaming fast ride. The rest should get together for a more relaxed ride going more sane speeds and not have anyone heading off way ahead leaving the rest behind. Then it would be a case of wanting a really fast wheel if you want to ride with the fast group and just looking for a decent wheel if you want to ride with the sane group.

[CrabChampion]

45 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

So, is that really what you want to do? Would you do those things when riding alone, or is it purely a peer pressure thing? Like a pissing contest?

3 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

I originally came from onewheel, and to be honest if I didn't get an EUC last summer, I couldnt have gone to 90% of the grouprides I participated in the summer. The grouprides here fall outside the onewheel speed and the last few onewheel rides were a disaster. Sitting around for over 45 minutes with only 7km travelled.

That's when I found this EUC group and honestly it was a blast. Refreshing good rides. They only started to pick up the speed at the end of the season. I ride anywhere from 50-70kmh alone (my current wheel isn't capable of any faster). The problem is that nobody wants to host slower grouprides here. Its either 90kmh full send, or under 25kmh rides (which is quite painful to be doing on anything bigger than a 16" EUC)

Anyways, enough about me and why I gravitate towards faster and faster wheels. Lets talk about the commander pro like this thread is meant for. Cheers everybody 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Cobaltsaber

[BKW]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 

Are you expecting the voltage to keep increasing? For how long / until what?

 Back when most wheels were 84V, Ninebot came out with a 59V Z10. And at 45km/h it wasn’t even much slower than most 84V wheels. Someone even hacked it to go 64km/h.

Upping the voltage is one way of achieving more speed, and it’s obvious that it’s the only way Begode knows of. But wheels aren’t getting much faster anymore, riding at 90km/h is already such a crazy thing to do that there aren’t many places to do it at, and there aren’t many riders who can do it safely.

You might have a rather twisted idea on what speeds most people ride at due to having landed with an extreme rider group. Check out the EUC World data on the average top speed that people rode at in 2022. It should be an eye opener.

Evolving technology doesn’t change our needs. Even if the wheels that come out this year top at 100mph, I still wouldn’t ride any faster than I ride now. Or rode already 4 years ago. I have found my speeds. If the group I ride in wants to bomb it out and not wait, good riddance. I’m definitely not boosting up my riding speeds because of others.

It isn’t. The wind resistance isn’t coming down in the next 3 years, so riding speeds aren’t going to get much faster from here. I’ve been on 84V wheels for soon 5 years. And I’d have no problem buying one this year if it offered me what I need from a wheel.

So, is that really what you want to do? Would you do those things when riding alone, or is it purely a peer pressure thing? Like a pissing contest?

How smart. It couldn’t be clearer that you need to split into two groups. Every single rider would be much happier.

The whole idea of spending $4k of your own money in order to keep up with the front of the pack couldn’t be more alien to me. If the fastest riders don’t take the rest of the riders in consideration, and won’t even ride with them, why even try? Good riddance. Make your own group.

I couldn't agree more. This need to go above a certain speed to keep up with the pack is "weird" to put it nicely. However, I do understand safety headroom when it comes to speed increases.

We can't discount that some people simply want to go faster than 45-50mph. It might seem strange to us on such a machine, but I guess it's not that strange to think there are people out there like that. Also, this is a group ride where lots of ego are involved and pushing the limits of your machine is top of mind.

My twisted sense of reality sees a lot of group rides like this, where so much ego is involved it brings me back to a time when I was a teenager in high school or something, but that's my cynical viewpoint. For instance, this whole culture of NYC riders being dangerously aggressive riders is somehow cool seems pretty lame to me, and when YouTube influencers push this weird pride in being dangerous as if in some kind of cult puts me off. I just know how some people are in that this influences them to be even more reckless than they would otherwise be (street riding with traffic recklessly, no gear, etc). Then you get weird names that pop up like "Suicycle" and all this strange crap you see on Facebook lol

I realize a lot of group rides aren't like this but I know for certain a lot of people are like this in group rides. I've never done one, but this is one reason I'm not that interested in it (once again, this is my cynical mind speaking). /Rant

Whew, OK, OK.... I feel better now. Walking away...

Edited March 8, 2023 by BKW

[mrelwood]

7 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

The problem is that nobody wants to host slower grouprides here.

Why don’t you? I do it. There are a few riders that sometimes come to our group ride hoping to blast out with their Shermans, but it’s made clear that we only ride at suitable speeds for the roads we’re on, and set our speed based on the slowest rider, no matter how slow.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Why don’t you? I do it. There are a few riders that sometimes come to our group ride hoping to blast out with their Shermans, but it’s made clear that we only ride at suitable speeds for the roads we’re on, and set our speed based on the slowest rider, no matter how slow.

That is because then no one will show up in the future. I have never been on a slow motorcycle group ride, even when they say it is beginners friendly. That is because the slow guys aren't usually interested in group rides. This is probably due to most group rides are fast. So after being left behind once, the slow riders won't bother to look for group rides further. Also, many people who goes to group rides enjoy the social aspect, but also for the thrill and adrenaline rush.

That is honorable of you. However, at least for motorcycle group rides around here, I have never found one like that.

For example, there was a guy who came on a Ninja 250 to join a motorcycle group ride for beginners. Everybody else were riding 600's or other big motorcycles. Within some seconds, in afternoon rush hour traffic, he was never seen again.

That's how it is in Vancouver. Maybe it is similar in Toronto. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by techyiam

[techyiam]

8 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

or under 25kmh rides (which is quite painful to be doing on anything bigger than a 16" EUC)

These are not group rides, these are purely social gatherings. 🙂

[pioneer]

22 hours ago, pioneer said:

From the latest Denis Hagov's review, his main concerns are:

• fewer adjustments for the suspension than in Sherman S, he wasn't able to fine-tune the suspension for his weight (110 kg I can remember)
• the rollers at the bottom of the suspension will pick up mud and the roller bearings will rust over time, requiring maintenance and even replacement at least once a month (although not battle-tested and likely will not be tested, so this looks more like an educated guess than factual experience)
• poor flimsy handle that is too low to roll the wheel in a supermarket without leaning forward
• less reactive braking compared to Sherman S

Given what Denis said, has anyone done multiple hard trail rides, how's the rollers, do they collect mud and get rust?

Also wondering what's the weight range of a rider for which the suspension works fine (with proper adjustments of course), especially for heavier riders (I'm 215 lbs / 98 kg without gear), can someone share their weight and suspension feeling?

Edited March 8, 2023 by pioneer

[mrelwood]

58 minutes ago, techyiam said:

That is because then no one will show up in the future.

That’s never been an issue here. And to be fair, their “slow” group were still pushing 70km/h. I’m pretty sure that given the experience of being their own “slower” group already, they’d much prefer to join a “70km/h max” group ride instead.

Why would people who have never exceeded 70km/h join a “90km/h max” group ride if it was laid out clearly in the first place? Or are you saying that all the guys in the slower group will never again try to join a group ride, no matter the speed? I really don’t think so.

[techyiam]

32 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

That’s never been an issue here. And to be fair, their “slow” group were still pushing 70km/h. I’m pretty sure that given the experience of being their own “slower” group already, they’d much prefer to join a “70km/h max” group ride instead.

Why would people who have never exceeded 70km/h join a “90km/h max” group ride if it was laid out clearly in the first place? Or are you saying that all the guys in the slower group will never again try to join a group ride, no matter the speed? I really don’t think so.

What you are saying makes sense. However, ultimately it depends on the riders themselves.

As he said, the group did not start out going that fast, the faster subgroup sprouted out later on. I surmised that after someone decides to bring in a faster wheel, other riders may have gotten enticed, and follow suit. And the next thing you knew, a faster subgroup was formed. However, this transition from slow to fast takes time. Eventually when there are only a few riders left in the slow group, either they will get on board, or they will just quit the group, or formed their own group.

I also think why the slow group still exist with the fast group is because most of slower riders also want to be in the fast group if they could. It is just that they need to acquire a suitable wheel first, and the balls to go with it.

CobaltSaber is a perfect example. He is perfectly happy to be in the fast group if he had the right wheel. 

 

Just a thought. What if the electric wheel manufacturers come out with 140 km/h wheels? Are the group ride speed going to climb? What happened to the "lots of headroom" concept. How fast will they go? To the max and beyond? What is the range going to be like at those speeds? Where will they ride? Exceeding 100 km/h on the backroads may not be a good idea. 

It is good for business after all since everyone who wants to stay with the group would have to buy a new wheel, and probably better gear too.

Edited March 8, 2023 by techyiam

[CrabChampion]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Why don’t you? I do it. There are a few riders that sometimes come to our group ride hoping to blast out with their Shermans, but it’s made clear that we only ride at suitable speeds for the roads we’re on, and set our speed based on the slowest rider, no matter how slow.

What @techyiam said sums it up nicely. Anytime a ride is hosted, it never works out. Your "slow" rides still push up to 70kmh. Ideally thats what I want

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Why would people who have never exceeded 70km/h join a “90km/h max” group ride if it was laid out clearly in the first place?

See heres the issue, it was never laid out to be that fast. The ride was advertised to be 70kmh max and people showed up and bombed it anyways. Anytime we tried to host a slower ride with advertised speeds laid out, people zoom ahead and the rest of the group naturally speed up if they are able to. This leaves behind the people who are unable to speed up, thus you get a huge gap of riders. Happened multiple times.

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

For example, there was a guy who came on a Ninja 250 to join a motorcycle group ride for beginners. Everybody else were riding 600's or other big motorcycles. Within some seconds, in afternoon rush hour traffic, he was never seen again.

Pretty much the issue we're having. As long as someone shows up to a ride with a big 134v wheel, they're gone. Those with the ability to follow, keep up. The few remaining are left behind

[CrabChampion]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Just a thought. What if the electric wheel manufacturers come out with 140 km/h wheels? Are the group ride speed going to climb? What happened to the "lots of headroom" concept. How fast will they go? To the max and beyond? What is the range going to be like at those speeds? Where will they ride? Exceeding 100 km/h on the backroads may not be a good idea. 

With the very fresh introduction to wheels that can go ~90kmh, I guess we'll just have to see. I remember a year ago when all we had were the top 100v wheels, people were cutting out at 80kmh. Meaning that 80kmh wheels weren't enough for these people. If alot of people start cutting out at 90kmh, then that means 90kmh isnt enough either. Then a demand will open and manufacturers will respond. Eventually the power will be high enough that these people that push the limits cant push anymore till failure. What speed will that be? I have no idea. The riders in my group still are hungry for a 100kmh wheel

8 hours ago, BKW said:

Are you expecting the voltage to keep increasing? For how long / until what?

As much as I feel voltage shouldnt keep increasing, I have a feeling that it will. The begode K6 is already running a 146v system which means begode has every means to start pumping out EUCs with this new higher voltage.

Ive fallen prey to it as well, but EUC consumers just like bigger and bigger numbers. I try to keep educated on what factors come into play for performance, but there are a large amount of riders that just think the bigger voltage and bigger numbers are better. Period. As long as wheels keep selling with higher voltages, manufacturers dont have a reason to stop the voltage creep.

I believe if the commander pro build quality was equal or even slightly below the sherman-s, more people wouldve bought the commander pro for the voltage alone. People like big voltage lol

[Clem604]

8 hours ago, BKW said:

I I've never done one, but this is one reason I'm not that interested in it 

Yeah I'm in the same boat here. When I'm riding I like to be solo or maybe with 2-3 friends max. To each their own though, I do see the appeal in large group rides but at 37 years of age I'm too much of a "boomer" to join in 😆. 

[Tawpie]

Locally, the original group used to advertise greater than 20 mph average speeds—us newer/slower riders made a separate group for beginners and intermediates with slower rides. Everyone quickly graduates, but when new riders appear a slow ride is hosted. I think the fast-and-furious group is averaging 35+ mph these days, probably even faster!

The fast will go as fast as they can, and the definition of 'fast' goes up with every BG release. One just needs to organize another tier or two.

Our weekly 'big event' (Saturday Night Ride) tends to run very fast in the winter when the weather is bad and only the hard core riders are out. Efforts are made by the organizers to slow things down during nice weather when a wider range of riders is involved but it's an unwinable situation. About all you can do is let the fast riders filter to the front of the pack and if they want, they wait at the regrouping stops.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Tawpie

[Rawnei]

48 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said:

Pretty much the issue we're having. As long as someone shows up to a ride with a big 134v wheel, they're gone. Those with the ability to follow, keep up. The few remaining are left behind

Our group rides is the complete opposite, if some people ride ahead of the group they will have to turn around and come back because the majority is chilling and talking to each other. 😂

[Bustapalapno]

20 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

I think with this in mind, the 100v of the sherman-s just wont cut it. It doesnt scream futureproof to me as 100v is pretty much already previous gen. I am still iffy on the origami construction holding up long term as well. Leaperkim is rumored to be moving onto 126v for their next 16" wheel as well, leaving 100v behind. This generation of large suspension wheels will be my last purchase for a long time as well so modularity and ease of repair in the next 3 years is a major point for me.

Ease of repair with a Begode/Extreme Bull wheel is a point of concern. While popular models like the EXN have a good stream of parts, parts for less popular wheels gets spotty fast. I think the EX30 will land on the good side of that spectrum, but Commander Pro I'm not so sure. 

[Bizra6ot]

49 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said:

As much as I feel voltage shouldnt keep increasing, I have a feeling that it will. The begode K6 is already running a 146v system which means begode has every means to start pumping out EUCs with this new higher voltage.

The K6 is 146V only because of the lfp batteries 3.65V so we will not have this voltage in our eucs

[CrabChampion]

50 minutes ago, Bizra6ot said:

The K6 is 146V only because of the lfp batteries 3.65V so we will not have this voltage in our eucs

Still with my other points and the eagerness of people to ditch 100v, I dont think voltage increases are going away anytime soon. People crave that higher voltage

[Clem604]

15 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said:

People crave that higher voltage

Chasing the dragon 🐉

[mhpr262]

19 hours ago, Bizra6ot said:

The K6 is 146V only because of the lfp batteries 3.65V so we will not have this voltage in our eucs

Not that exact voltage maybe, but 142,8V with 34 cells is already pretty much there.

[Freeforester]

On 3/8/2023 at 8:35 PM, Clem604 said:

Chasing the dragon 🐉

More like keeping up with the lemmings…

[EUC Sharkman]

Nothing wrong with wanting a wheel with the torque from a 100v HT wheel and the top end speed of a 100v HS wheel in a single 134v wheel. 

[BKW]

 

[BKW]

What? No one buying the Commander Pro? Lol.

This is likely the case when you see on youtube nothing but Sherman-S and EX30 consumer videos out, but no consumer videos on the EBCP.

Has there been any wheel Extreme Bull releases that did well? The only ones I can think that they released were the X-men, Commander, and Commander Pro, but these all seem like failures...

Edited March 16, 2023 by BKW

[CrabChampion]

19 minutes ago, BKW said:

What? No one buying the Commander Pro? Lol.

This is likely the case when you see on youtube nothing but Sherman-S and EX30 consumer videos out, but no consumer videos on the EBCP.

Has there been any wheel Extreme Bull releases that did well? The only ones I can think that they released were the X-men, Commander, and Commander Pro, but these all seem like failures...

The latest batch of commander pros likely havent landed in North America yet. The most recent red screen version having not that many changes, Marty just got his hands on one airshipped. My local retailers seems to be estimating the commander pro units (first batch) arriving in april. They are just sitting on a boat on the way here. Eevees only got their EX30 demo unit. Even their first batch of EX30s havent landed in Canada yet.

The OG commander was an underrated wheel. Came out at the wrong price at the wrong time. Now that the sherman max has the firmware with no pedal dipping, the pros of the OG commander are pretty much gone. Still a solid 3600wh wheel though, but only the huge sales made the commander tempting