Extremebull Commander Pro (134.4v,3600wh,suspension)

[Cam]

Edit: I mistook Martys video about bypassing the distribution board and thought he measured and charged the packs independently. To my excuse the camera was very close, only later I realized that the battery packs where still connected to the distribution board.

So just forget this post 

Edit 2: The following hidden content is my old post where I had misunderstood.
It can happen to imperfect people like myself.
Do note that I was asking to be corrected if wrong.

Again, I am very sorry that I misunderstood what Marty was measuring.
 

Spoiler

The Commander pro seems to have different battery pack configurations.

Martys here has 32S2P packs, where mine has 16S4P packs (supposedly put in series by the power distribution board)

This is indicated nowhere AFAIK and can be very dangerous if you mis-match parts!!!!

I'm very certain this explains BKWs almost battery fire: he changed the board with one from a EX30. This would probably not have been an issue if they where made for the same voltage, but this shows that there can be widely different voltages that probably requires different board versions. For example would 134V packs be put in series by a board intended for 67,2V? The only voltage info my power board gives is "for 134V", it says nothing about an input of 67,2V.

BEWARE!

edit: This might apply to other Begode / EB EUCs, check the voltage before doing any part change..

edit 2: Anyone with more knowledge please correct me, but own the meantime caution is probably best..

Edit 3: I might be wrong and Marty wasn't charging the battery packs directly, will update.

 

Edited March 8 by Cam

[Planemo]

2 hours ago, Cam said:

The Commander pro seems to have different battery pack configurations.

@Marty Backe s here has 32S2P packs, where mine has 16S4P packs (supposedly put in series by the power distribution board)

 

I'm not sure I follow where you are seeing that Marty had 32S packs. The reading he was getting at the timestamp you provided was charge board output, not a single pack output..

[Cam]

1 hour ago, Planemo said:

I'm not sure I follow where you are seeing that Marty had 32S packs. The reading he was getting at the timestamp you provided was charge board output, not a single pack output..

Yes, I corrected my post an hour before you posted yours.

I will make it more clear that the hidden content is the old post where I had understood wrongly.

Edited March 8 by Cam

[Planemo]

11 minutes ago, Cam said:

Yes, I corrected my post an hour before you posted yours.

I will make it more clear that the hidden content is the old post where I had understood wrongly.

No it's all cool, I must admit you had me sweating a bit there, it would mean we would have to be very careful about getting the correct dist board!

Edit: and apologies, I didn't see that you had edited it before I posted

Edited March 8 by Planemo

[Cam]

56 minutes ago, Planemo said:

No it's all cool, I must admit you had me sweating a bit there, it would mean we would have to be very careful about getting the correct dist board!

Edit: and apologies, I didn't see that you had edited it before I posted

Sorry for the bad info; but I was quite convinced for a half hour that it was an individual pack he measured at 133V. I could have waited to be more sure; but then if someone at that moment was going to do something that might have been dangerous (in my wrongful understanding), I preferred to warn for caution.

Anyhow, false alarm  

Edited March 8 by Cam

[Cam]

I finally got to take my EBCP on a longer ride. When the battery reached 20% according to Begode app (105,7V = 3,3V per cell) the EUC started beeping pretty much constantly. The Begode app displayed a "Low voltage" warning, together with 20% battery and riding 15Km/h (10Mph) softly.

Old Gotway wheels had a minimum of 3.3V, but then the app should show 0%. Here I have 20% and the EUC behaved like it was 0%. The min voltage should be 3.05V if it's like the Master.

Seing the cells had "plenty" of voltage I kept slowly going because it was late and I had to get home. It was disturbing and embarrassing with that loud-ass beep running constantly.

Is it normal for Begode EUCs to only have 80% usable battery? (I won't call "beeping constantly at very low speed" usable, thats what should happen after hitting 0%)

Edited April 13 by Cam

[Planemo]

I can't comment for the Begode app as I never use it except for FW changes but I think this is a pretty good opportunity to switch to EUCW and see what happens on the stock battery level setup. If it's not right, you could always program a custom minimum voltage of 105.6v as 0%.

Edit: I have a note on my phone (I make notes of handy Begode stuff, sad I know!) which does say 3.3v is beeping start point, tiltback is at 3v.

Edited April 13 by Planemo

[Cam]

Thanks @Planemo, but I find it utterly ridiculous to have a minimum voltage of 3.3V on a 8p / 3600Wh wheel.

So everyone riding Begode EUCs stop riding at 3.3V, or get harassed by beeps no matter how slow they ride? I thought that was a thing of the past; when batteries where small and Gotway needed safety margin for reasons. (Supposed min voltages for BG EUCs)

Ultimately i don’t care what % battery the app claim; but I’m used to 3.15V and down to 3.0V being usable, being limited to 3.3V on the largest Wh battery I have is downright vexing.

I do long trips, where range counts because there isn’t always a charge point. If this is normal for Begode their 3600Wh (3400Wh) range isn’t any better than my 3200Wh (3100Wh) Sherman OG.

Last time ever I buy anything Begode, the disappointments never end.

(edit: app wise I use DB, which doesn’t allow to set the 0%; but as mentioned it really isn’t that end of the stick I care about)

Edited April 14 by Cam

[Planemo]

I can empathise with your pain given your riding scenario, for me I never get anywhere near an indicated 20%, I usually recharge about 40% if I'm honest but then we plan our all day rides around charge points and sometimes we top up 3 times. Additionally, I really wouldn't want to be riding a wheel at 3.3v per cell because the available oomph (even at 6P) is dropping off drastically at that point and put simply I'd be getting a bit paranoid. But I totally understand that some folk like yourself really want every last mile.

I'm not sure why Begode use 3.3v when LK don't. That said your post reminded me of Marty having the same problem (thought the wheel went to a lower %) and I think he mentioned asking Begode if they could/would make a different FW but I don't know if that ever materialised. If @Marty Backe sees this maybe he could comment.

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, Planemo said:

I'm not sure why Begode use 3.3v when LK don't.

For Samsung 50E cells, the discharge cutoff is 2.5 V (plus other Samsung cells).

Which means no cells can go below that.

Hence, the average cell voltage for the battery pack must be higher.

But how much higher? And how about after a few years? Or for the life of the batter pack.

It doesn't affect me since I don't intentionally go less than 50% usually.

But for safety of all owners, and use cases, and age, across the board, that cutoff point may come across too conservative for some riders.

Begode has been in the past less cautious than other manufacturers when it comes to safety margins. Marketing seems to win the day usually.

Having the discharge cutoff higher means less range but more safety margins.

For me, I would rather side with caution with a manufacturers than to second guess them. For example, the quality of cells in battery packs and BMS's are unknown for me. Or they have data to support their choice. I can only speculate.

 

Edited April 14 by techyiam

[Cam]

We've had the 18XL with a 6p / 1554Wh battery go down to 3.0V for years, both with Samsung and LG cells. It have never shown to be a problem; it is one of the most durable EUCs ever, with many users reporting several tens of thousand Km. (People who do drain the battery).

The 18XL is more and more limited in speed / torque by the PWM tiltback, but it doesn't make a ruckus at super low speed and it's only toward the end you are really limited. The EBCP was beeping at standstill while displaying close to 20% battery.

Edited April 14 by Cam

[techyiam]

13 minutes ago, Cam said:

We've had the 18XL with a 6p / 1554Wh battery go down to 3.0V for years, both with Samsung and LG cells. It have never shown to be a problem; it is one of the most durable EUCs ever, with many users reporting several tens of thousand Km. (People who do drain the battery).

18 XL at 6P though, and the current draw on the 18XL is nowhere as high as what we have now. Voltage sag increases with current draw.

[Cam]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

18 XL at 6P though, and the current draw on the 18XL is nowhere as high as what we have now. Voltage sag increases with current draw.

Sure, but the EBCP is a 8P 6P, and when I trolley it beeping through town, it draws a lot less than when I ride the 6P 18XL carefully. Which I know how to do, hence me wanting to be allowed to. The EBCP was even beeping at standstill with a voltage of 105V (3,28V / cell).

I'm all for caution but this seems overblown, I know for having done so for years that at 3.3V you can ride (carefully) yet a bit. Not everyone is treating their EUCs as a tough guy toy.

Edited April 14 by Cam

[Bizra6ot]

Set the volume to level 1 instead of level 9 you won't hear it while riding and only slightly at standstill

[Tep]

Commander pro is 32s6p, same as EX30. 

Each parallel of 134v battery is ~600Wh, unlike 100V battery parallel with ~450Wh.

[Cam]

31 minutes ago, Tep said:

Commander pro is 32s6p, same as EX30. 

Each parallel of 134v battery is ~600Wh, unlike 100V battery parallel with ~450Wh.

Ah ok, I was under that impression because initially I thought they where 32S2P packs, but as they are put in 2x series they can be 16S3P packs.

Still not impressed that it beeps at standstill with 3,28V / cell and "20%" battery though. There is twice more Wh left to 3.0V than in a 18XL in the same situation, and sag can be mitigated by careful riding.

Edited April 14 by Cam

[Mike Sacristan]

19 hours ago, Cam said:

I finally got to take my EBCP on a longer ride. When the battery reached 20% according to Begode app (105,7V = 3,3V per cell) the EUC started beeping pretty much constantly. The Begode app displayed a "Low voltage" warning, together with 20% battery and riding 15Km/h (10Mph) softly.

Old Gotway wheels had a minimum of 3.3V, but then the app should show 0%. Here I have 20% and the EUC behaved like it was 0%. The min voltage should be 3.05V if it's like the Master.

Seing the cells had "plenty" of voltage I kept slowly going because it was late and I had to get home. It was disturbing and embarrassing with that loud-ass beep running constantly.

Is it normal for Begode EUCs to only have 80% usable battery? (I won't call "beeping constantly at very low speed" usable, thats what should happen after hitting 0%)

The problem with %. It is inaccurate, and it rounds up to the nearest 10. So you could just as well have been at 11%. It is still 20% for the Begode App.

17 hours ago, Cam said:

Thanks @Planemo, but I find it utterly ridiculous to have a minimum voltage of 3.3V on a 8p / 3600Wh wheel.

So everyone riding Begode EUCs stop riding at 3.3V, or get harassed by beeps no matter how slow they ride? I thought that was a thing of the past; when batteries where small and Gotway needed safety margin for reasons. (Supposed min voltages for BG EUCs)

My Nik tilts back at 3.3V.

17 hours ago, Cam said:

Ultimately i don’t care what % battery the app claim; but I’m used to 3.15V and down to 3.0V being usable, being limited to 3.3V on the largest Wh battery I have is downright vexing.

I do long trips, where range counts because there isn’t always a charge point. If this is normal for Begode their 3600Wh (3400Wh) range isn’t any better than my 3200Wh (3100Wh) Sherman OG.

Last time ever I buy anything Begode, the disappointments never end.

(edit: app wise I use DB, which doesn’t allow to set the 0%; but as mentioned it really isn’t that end of the stick I care about)

When EX30 came out it tilted back at 105.6V / 3.3V.
They then released an updated firmware which allows discharge to ~99V giving me a whole extra 6km for those 7V.
At 107V I could still hit 60kmh with -13% speed correction.
I have the volume set to the lowest and when I got home I heard the wheel had been silently beeping for who knows how long.

Even older wheels like EXN allow deep discharge with newer firmwares.
Do you have the latest firmware on your EBCP?
 

3 hours ago, Cam said:

Ah ok, I was under that impression because initially I thought they where 32S2P packs, but as they are put in 2x series they can be 16S3P packs.

Still not impressed that it beeps at standstill with 3,28V / cell and "20%" battery though. There is twice more Wh left to 3.0V than in a 18XL in the same situation, and sag can be mitigated by careful riding.

It's beeping to warn you that it is at low battery.
Sure it's annoying for people like us who don't need that feature since we monitor our wheels with apps but not everybody does.
 

[Cam]

9 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Do you have the latest firmware on your EBCP?

Thank you for the various info.
Yes I use the latest FW, I believe the first one didn't have any warning at all, letting Dawn ride way too low, so this is probably an exaggerated reaction to that. I will hope they align it with the EX FW again, the hardware is close to the same.

Crazy even the app is rounding by 10 (It did seem strange it stuck on 20 for long, I generally dont use that app), I already found the voltage reporting (When monitoring charge) quite chunky.

[Mike Sacristan]

45 minutes ago, Cam said:

Thank you for the various info.
Yes I use the latest FW, I believe the first one didn't have any warning at all, letting Dawn ride way too low, so this is probably an exaggerated reaction to that. I will hope they align it with the EX FW again, the hardware is close to the same.

Crazy even the app is rounding by 10 (It did seem strange it stuck on 20 for long, I generally dont use that app), I already found the voltage reporting (When monitoring charge) quite chunky.

My pleasure!

I'm not surprised and it's not the first time that they overly react.
We wanted a responsive manufacturer. Well now we have it.
We wanted safety. Now we have it.

Darknessbot allows for battery correction by setting the voltage levels.
I use 4.2V and 3.3V with voltage curve compensation set to *ON*.

This will be slightly pessimistic on some wheels and more accurate on others.
My Lynx double beeps me once when getting to 3.3V or 118.8V. Then dips crazy fast down to 112. I gently rode it home.
With voltage sag going above and below and double beeping me every time.
My Nik starts to tilt me back at 3.3V and my EXN just lets me keep rolling at 50kmh.

Try setting the volume to the lowest as one poster suggested. It will not affect the 5 beep PWM alarm.

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, Mike Sacristan said:

They then released an updated firmware which allows discharge to ~99V 

Thats what I thought when I mentioned earlier in the thread about Martys experience.

1 hour ago, Cam said:

Yes I use the latest FW

So then this doesn't make sense.

Edited April 14 by Planemo

[Gkindy]

On 3/19/2024 at 10:41 PM, Gkindy said:

I’ve posted this on various Facebook groups but wanted to also post on here for those that are interested in an aftermarket 3d printed alternative to the terrible stock CPro headlights. I designed and printed the mount to be used with the following LED light but I’m sure similar lights would fit:

Super Bright Bike Light for Safe Night Riding, 3000 Lumen 5 LED Wide Beam Bicycle Light, USB Rechargeable Bicycle Headlight Set, Waterproof Bike Headlight for Adult Kid Mountain Road Commuter Cycling https://a.co/d/fDXvHya
 

I designed the mount to be attached to the wheel using four M3 x 20 mm hex socket head screws. I will upload the STL file to whomever would like it!

It limits the max file size for the images so click here for the full set of pictures:

https://postimg.cc/gallery/Kt8jMX5

 

Wanted to make sure that everyone had access to this that wants it. I uploaded the front bumper extensions that are made out of PLA and updated the Cults3d listing today.

 https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/gadget/commander-pro-led-light-mount

Edited April 21 by Gkindy

[eezo]

What's the method / best method for cleaning the suspension parts? I got caught outside in an unexpected light rain situation a few weeks back and while the wheel and suspension operate, the suspension feels "gritty", like it's being resisted by friction. I'm not sure what to take apart or clean, though, and with what.