Extremebull Commander Pro (134.4v,3600wh,suspension)

[wstuart]

13 minutes ago, trailless said:

Most if not all of the play in the Begode current Begode suspension wheels can be fixed by tightening 2 grub screws on each of the sliders. Once you tighten those down, they excess play is gone.

Oh I didn't know.  Yeah that's probably the winning design then. 

[DavidB]

4 hours ago, trailless said:

Most if not all of the play in the Begode current Begode suspension wheels can be fixed by tightening 2 grub screws on each of the sliders. Once you tighten those down, they excess play is gone.

Ecodrift found these grub screws distorted the bushings and bound the suspension.

Ecodrift "If you watch the video (link at the beginning of this post), you will see that the suspension did not move well. And, as it turned out, these 4 screws were the reason for this. They warped all the bushings, and because of this, the suspension just wedged. Therefore, the first step is to throw out all these 4 set screws. They ruin everything. Why Begode decided to add them after the EX20s, I don't know. "

Edited February 13, 2023 by DavidB

[DavidB]

Someone else (euc upgrade?) mentioned the very poor tolerances between the stainless tubes and the bushings. I guess what Hsiang et al did was distort the bushing into an oval shape to take up all the slack but of course this will cause uneven wear. Micky mouse solution for sloppy manufacturing tolerances.

Motorcycle forks can be tuned more easily than links.  Just go back and watch GoGeorgeGo trying to set up his linked EX20 for an idea.

Edited February 13, 2023 by DavidB

[Rawnei]

Begode solution in it's current form is not technically great, yes there are issues with tolerances but also other issue, part of the looseness is mechanical but part of it is also firmware related.

S22 with upgraded sliders is a pretty simple but effective solution, no stiction whatsoever and no looseness.

In a couple of years we will probably see more advanced solutions than any of these as the manufacturers learn how to perfect this, I am not sure about the 1 slider per side solutions that we have now, it works fine on a fork for a 2-wheel vehicle but on a unicycle all the weight are on these sliders and there's a lot of stress from different directions.

[DavidB]

 

5 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

In a couple of years we will probably see more advanced solutions than any of these as the manufacturers learn how to perfect this, I am not sure about the 1 slider per side solutions that we have now, it works fine on a fork for a 2-wheel vehicle but on a unicycle all the weight are on these sliders and there's a lot of stress from different directions.

Forks are mature tech. Motocrossers have been landing insanely high jumps sometimes just on the front wheel for lap after lap and the forks are fine and a motorcross bike is twice the weight of a EUC. The main difference I see is the quality has to be higher with a fork (otherwise you leak oil and bind etc) and we all know this is not a strong point of the current Chinese EUC factories. The links were their best option with their build quality. I suspect that is why Leaperkim out-sourced to Fastace. It will be interesting to see how the EB suspension holds up.

[Freeforester]

15 hours ago, trailless said:

 

That’s one of them super dooper metric adjustable wrenches right, complete with Faketree Japanning/distress camo; I wonder also, where they get those ‘graduated’ transparent oil bath receptacles?    Ah, it’s so ‘confidence-inspiring’  to see a master technician at work in a state-of-the-art workshop facility, I can’t wait to see what they do by way of their next tutorial, lolno!

[Paul g]

On 2/12/2023 at 7:51 PM, Marty Backe said:

I see evidence of wide spread modifications of the linkage based suspensions. People, including me, have replace the springs on the S22 and some people have changed the shock. For the Hero, T4, Master, Master Pro, and I anticipate the EX30, there are new linkages available that improve the suspension and again, it's very easy to change the shock. On my Master I've change to a coil shock (< $100). Others have gone to better air shocks. Apparently endless options.

Options are good. People like the options of changing pedals, powerpads, seats, etc.

For the Sherman S, Commander Pro, V13, we don't really have options. Can you point me to a source for aftermarket shocks that can be swapped for the stock components? I'm not aware of any. Yet I can buy aftermarket shock components for KingSong / Begode from Amazon.

So this is why I prefer the linkage based suspension.

When I was talking with the CEO of Inmotion (Bob) he agreed that the linkage design is better and that will probably be the direction that they go in for their next wheels.

There are definitely some specific characteristics of the EUCs that make them a bit different from motorcycles and bicycles and might put some problems when trying to adapt these well known types of suspension to EUCs. The answer to these specific conditions will only come with trial and error. I personally think the stanchions/fork type is the most efficient of all both from the compactness and the weight perspectives. The only issue with that at the moment is the fact that we don’t have variety in quality or access to a more diverse range of these products. This aspect at the moment and for a while from now on will be difficult to solve because EUCs are relatively low production number compared to bicycles and motorcycles and insuring high variety for a low production number will be cost prohibitive, with other words if you will look after a very good quality stanchion/fork suspension to put on your EUC you will most probably not find it on the market because of the special dimensions it requires. This problem though would be completely overcome if the manufacturer of the EUC makes from the start the factory suspension of unbeatable quality (@LeaperKim, @Inmotion Global, etc.)- long life, good sealing, sturdiness, high adjustability, etc. If people are dissatisfied with these suspensions it is because they see the poor quality and the issues they come with from producers. If @Inmotion Global would do a quality fork suspension instead of their “try to reinvent the wheel” type of suspension they would have a lightweight final product. An other thing they kind of screwed up with V13 was when trying to add the car type of potting to EUCs. This only added up to the weight of the machine and in the EUC world the weight is a very sensitive thing. This was not an entirely bad thing, it increased the safety, but add this to choosing a unnecessary heavy type of suspension and it made things worse not better. The V13 would’ve been (10x) better protected with foam bumpers all around the batteries just like all post market 3D printed protection than with the potting. This is what I think @Inmotion Global  should work on and insure from factory: well made, light weight and sturdy all around protection that will absorb impact, integrated foam seat, flat lateral walls that will allow mounting of velcro for personalised pads without any useless shit like the inmotion logo and the receded area to house it (what is the point of that InMotion, will it help us use the V13 better?). And most of all I think no EUC from now on should come without metal exterior body if it goes over 70km/h-43miles/h.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Paul g

[Paul A]

Perhaps paragraphs may be useful.

[Paul g]

7 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Perhaps paragraphs may be useful.

       Sorry! I was seriously absorbed by my looong rant   

[Uras]

6 hours ago, Paul g said:

The only issue with that at the moment is the fact that we don’t have variety in quality or access to a more diverse range of these products

Well, we do. MTB suspension forks have been around for 20 years now? I see particular model forks modified by their manufacturers to suit different needs. For example much lighter riders but in the same form factor. Forks for high end kids bikes are scaled down from their brethren. And bicycle manufacturers like Trek have their own licensed modifications that are made by the suspension manufacturers. They're just business and will take on any job that pays. It looks to me like euc manufacturers are just trying to do things as cheaply as they can. Consider ks s22pro - they use a standard format mtb shock, yet they get the cheapest one available. I have a fold up bike with rear suspension - it has a shock that is a unique model only made for that particular dahon model. That's from 15 years ago. I think it is relatively easy, from a suspension perspective, to get good suspension on an euc. The easiest most bombproof model would be without linkage more akin to the mtb fork. But there are also a myriad of rear suspension designs already out there with mtb - that industry has the technology and lots of experience. I'm amazed that they haven't got into euc - they would have to do a better job. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Uras

[Paul g]

7 hours ago, Uras said:

        ks s22pro - they use a standard format mtb shock, yet they get the cheapest one available.

           Yeah, a worrying trend.. Cheap suspension, cheap bearings.

8 hours ago, Uras said:

     I think it is relatively easy, from a suspension perspective, to get good suspension on an euc. The easiest most bombproof model would be without linkage more akin to the mtb fork. 

              I wonder if we might see some e-wheels type of intervention where the resellers or the aftermarket providers will order their own suspension from suspension producers. These should have thicker walls, high strength material, since the lateral forces on EUC are higher than ones on bicycle - more like motorcycle ones: Paolo Tarozzi (http://www.tarozzipaolo.com/inglese/home.htm)and TNK (http://www.tnk.it/- this one doesn’t even have a proper site 😂 but their name appears everywhere).

[Marty Backe]

23 hours ago, Paul g said:

<snip>A lot of good commentary</snip>

And most of all I think no EUC from now on should come without metal exterior body if it goes over 70km/h-43miles/h.

Metal is nice but then again it weighs more.

After riding with Dawn a lot and seeing first hand what happens in a high-speed crash when using a tether (almost no damage) I'm convinced that the best tactic for protecting your wheel is the use of a tether. This is for high speed riding. For low-speed falls the power pads and bumpers provide good enough protection.

The tether functions to stop the wheel almost immediately (no bouncing down the street forever) and then breaks away from the rider.

 

[Paul g]

18 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Metal is nice but then again it weighs more.

After riding with Dawn a lot and seeing first hand what happens in a high-speed crash when using a tether (almost no damage) I'm convinced that the best tactic for protecting your wheel is the use of a tether. This is for high speed riding. For low-speed falls the power pads and bumpers provide good enough protection.

The tether functions to stop the wheel almost immediately (no bouncing down the street forever) and then breaks away from the rider.

 

      Yes, very good solution. I saw her video and I’ve been against tethers before, but I kind of changed my mind after that. Her approach to it with multiple break points make it safe for the rider and also for other road/ path users. The tether combined with proper absorbing bumpers works great for protecting the wheel as well.

      I think many of us agree that the factory added bumpers are a very good light weight solution to protect the unicycle. Though it is very small  the rubber bumper in my V12 saved my wheel from breaking several times until now.        

      The CPro it seems had a shot at this factory provided bumper, but in its Begode style it unfortunately abandoned it half trough. I still don’t know if they’ll provide something in the future. 

[Freeforester]

Breakaway concept could be tailored 🤔 to the weight or preference of the rider, a bit like ski bindings can be adjusted.  The concept of energy dissipation is sound, for sure, providing it is arranged per Dawns suggestion that it does not impact too much on the rider’s physiology. 

[Paul g]

   

5 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

Breakaway concept could be tailored 🤔 to the weight or preference of the rider, a bit like ski bindings can be adjusted.  The concept of energy dissipation is sound, for sure, providing it is arranged per Dawns suggestion that it does not impact too much on the rider’s physiology. 

       My guess is with a hook and loop strap you can adjust the breaking force as you wish (the tether she uses is elastic as well so that will account for some of the absorption of forces on a longer time period, reducing impact on the rider and wheel).

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, Paul g said:

      Yes, very good solution. I saw her video and I’ve been against tethers before, but I kind of changed my mind after that. Her approach to it with multiple break points make it safe for the rider and also for other road/ path users. The tether combined with proper absorbing bumpers works great for protecting the wheel as well.

      I think many of us agree that the factory added bumpers are a very good light weight solution to protect the unicycle. Though it is very small  the rubber bumper in my V12 saved my wheel from breaking several times until now.        

      The CPro it seems had a shot at this factory provided bumper, but in its Begode style it unfortunately abandoned it half trough. I still don’t know if they’ll provide something in the future. 

Regards Extreme Bull, I have my doubts that they'll add bumpers, but never say never 

[Paul g]

22 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Regards Extreme Bull, I have my doubts that they'll add bumpers, but never say never 

     Begode came first with protection bumpers for their flimsy batteries, so everything is possible. Bumpers are cheap, but Begode likes cheaper.

[BKW]

Updates on the Commander Pro (metal fender, metal handle, better wire management?, red film over display for better vision):

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/permalink/5907086552722592/

(video in link)

HOPE!

@Marty Backe can you verify anything about these EBCP updates?

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by BKW

[GHOSTTE]

Interesting, but too late for me I'm going with the EX30

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, BKW said:

Updates on the Commander Pro (metal fender, metal handle, better wire management?, red film over display for better vision):

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/permalink/5907086552722592/

(video in link)

HOPE!

@Marty Backe can you verify anything about these EBCP updates?

 

Yes. All this information came from me via a discussion with Jason

 

[DragonFZ]

The only relevant competition to the Commander Pro is the EX30. Whomever was going to get or got the Sherman S, most likely don't trust Begode.

[techyiam]

25 minutes ago, DragonFZ said:

The only relevant competition to the Commander Pro is the EX30. Whomever was going to get or got the Sherman S, most likely don't trust Begode.

Not necessarily. 

There are still those who are not fans of any brand, and are waiting to see how they compare. The Sherman-S was out first. But people are still waiting for the Commander Pro and the EX30 reviews.

[EUC Sharkman]

14 hours ago, GHOSTTE said:

Interesting, but too late for me I'm going with the EX30

EX30 will be a great wheel. It is a BEAST on the road….but it is a big wheel. Best thing the Commander Pro has going for it is that lighter weight and smaller size. But if size is not an issue, EX30 is looking like the powerhouse 20” wheel to have.

[BKW]

Tbh, this guy seems a little too bias of the wheel considering what we know about the inner quality of this wheel from other videos. Sounds like he is more interested in selling the wheel than giving any negative feedback

Edited February 26, 2023 by BKW

[pioneer]

16 hours ago, BKW said:

Tbh, this guy seems a little too bias of the wheel considering what we know about the inner quality of this wheel from other videos. Sounds like he is more interested in selling the wheel than giving any negative feedback

He mentioned that it is possible to adjust the preload, from what Dawn said in one of her videos, preload adjustment is the thing that CP lacks compared to Sherman S. Anyone knows the real situation with preload?