Inmotion V13 Speculation

[Paul A]

4 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

it looked like this the day she did it.

 

The post was of a different path.

Might have been suggesting to use a desolate path.

[HEC]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

but how long would it take for bob yan and jason, to make an announcement about the broken axle bolts, like:

"there's been a couple of wheels that have broken axle bolts. we have looked at this problem and our goal is safety first, so we are replacing these bolts with stronger ones just to be safe".

i mean it's their brand new release of this safest wheel ever, and crickets from bob and jason. if i hadn't seen the email jason sent somebody, i wouldn't even know. 

The word is spreading now about the motor bolts issue and it's a bit saddening that no official statement (as far as I'm aware) or actual recall was published by Inmotion or any of resellers. Currently, I know about 2 resellers deciding on their own cost to replace the bolts (after "consulting" with Inmotion), eWheels and Alienrides, with both sending emails to (pre-)order holders (albeit possibly not to all if them), however no info has been published by either of them on their website or V13 order page.

But still better than nothing, however everyone who've ordered from elsewhere is either unaware of the issue, out of their own pocket for replacing the bolts as preventative measure or for an unpleasant surprise (and even possible injury), if / when their will fail. I personally would buy from Jason / eWheels (I did in past), but unfortunately he's not conducting business outside NA anymore, thus I need to rely on other sources.

I've not received my V13 yet, but I'm already considering contacting the seller to get them ask Inmotion for the official statement on the bolts situation and whether they will provide replacement higher grade bolts for free.

Finally, how come, that none of the bolts issues were noticed (or at least reported) during the internal testing with such heavy abuse?? I'm still unsure if this is a material (low grade bolts) or assembly (incorrect torque) issue. Some clarification from Inmotion side is really overdue now.

Edited February 7, 2023 by HEC

[conecones]

40 minutes ago, HEC said:

The word is spreading now about the motor bolts issue and it's a bit saddening that no official statement (as far as I'm aware) or actual recall was published by Inmotion or any of resellers. Currently, I know about 2 resellers deciding on their own cost to replace the bolts (after "consulting" with Inmotion), eWheels and Alienrides, with both sending emails to (pre-)order holders (albeit possibly not to all if them), however no info has been published by either of them on their website or V13 order page.

But still better than nothing, however everyone who've ordered from elsewhere is either unaware of the issue, out of their own pocket for replacing the bolts as preventative measure or for an unpleasant surprise (and even possible injury), if / when their will fail. I personally would buy from Jason / eWheels (I did in past), but unfortunately he's not conducting business outside NA anymore, thus I need to rely on other sources.

I've not received my V13 yet, but I'm already considering contacting the seller to get them ask Inmotion for the official statement on the bolts situation and whether they will provide replacement higher grade bolts for free.

Finally, how come, that none of the bolts issues were noticed (or at least reported) during the internal testing with such heavy abuse?? I'm still unsure if this is a material (low grade bolts) or assembly (incorrect torque) issue. Some clarification from Inmotion side is really overdue now.

These bolts are cheap and widely available anywhere - why not just get some now while you wait? Seems like a non-issue, especially when its common to check the axle bolts on all new wheels before riding them. If you are this stressed about such a minor thing then you are definitely not ready to own a Begode....haha.

FYI loose & low quality bolts were also a problem on the V12 pedal hangers. Many people had 1-2 screws loose straight from the factory and if you kept riding like that the bolts would snap. Not a huge deal, a reminder was sent out by dealers to check & snug up the bolts before riding.

[HEC]

9 minutes ago, conecones said:

These bolts are cheap and widely available anywhere - why not just get some now while you wait?

The bolts are not that common (unlike for example the V12 pedals hanger ones), as they have partially counter sunk heads plus (to me yet) unknown length and size. If anyone can provide required dimensions (or even better point to reliable source selling matching bolts), I'll be more than happy to purchase them myself. However that still leaves one unknown factor, the required torque. 

[conecones]

25 minutes ago, HEC said:

The bolts are not that common (unlike for example the V12 pedals hanger ones), as they have partially counter sunk heads plus (to me yet) unknown length and size. If anyone can provide required dimensions (or even better point to reliable source selling matching bolts), I'll be more than happy to purchase them myself. However that still leaves one unknown factor, the required torque. 

Ewheels made an order so they would know, or IM might provide this. The foolproof method (if you're not in a rush) is to do a partial disassembly/QC check when you receive the wheel prior to riding and measure the bolts yourself. I plan on swapping out not just the motor bolts but also the side panel bolts to stainless steel as from past experience, IM's bolts tend to rust easily. Then it's just a quick trip to the local fastener shop or online order.

[2disbetter]

7 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

So i feel the criticism was justified, don't you?

Insofar that we are all not perfect and there is ALWAYS room for improvement? Sure! 

My thinking is that as a skilled motorcycle rider, and as an experienced EUC rider, who has been in a bad crash, and still comes back for more, that this was acceptable for her. I think Dawn would have risked more injury to herself if any would have jumped in her way. She tethers herself to her wheels. Her willingness to sacrifice herself and her skill at riding at these speeds made this acceptable. Notice that all of the people she passed were far on the side. 

I think people just like to armchair quarterbacking too much on the internet personally. 

 

[Robse]

21 minutes ago, conecones said:

Ewheels made an order so they would know, or IM might provide this. The foolproof method (if you're not in a rush) is to do a partial disassembly/QC check when you receive the wheel prior to riding and measure the bolts yourself. I plan on swapping out not just the motor bolts but also the side panel bolts to stainless steel as from past experience, IM's bolts tend to rust easily. Then it's just a quick trip to the local fastener shop or online order.

keep in mind that stainless steel is weaker in strength than standard steel.

[Stevebee]

3 hours ago, novazeus said:

 

So the previously broken suspension was cross threaded, although not the source of the noise. Any chance one of the many previous owners removed the damaged one and cross threaded it putting it back. Or it came like that from the factory. I know what scenario I put my money on!

[Rawnei]

So, as evidenced by these multiple videos, all new wheels have problems even the V13 with it's fantastic build quality. 😅

Every, single, time, this is what early batch means for a lot of people.

I don't know about you but I learned my lessons over multiple wheels, no more early batch for me.

[UniVehje]

2 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

So, as evidenced by these multiple videos, all new wheels have problems even the V13 with it's fantastic build quality. 😅

Every, single, time, this is what early batch means for a lot of people.

I don't know about you but I learned my lessons over multiple wheels, no more early batch for me.

I learned this lesson after my first time buying a first batch wheel (V10F) and have since done the same mistake only twice. It takes some serious patience to wait for a year and then buy a properly built version when there are many new wheels already announced.

[2disbetter]

4 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

So, as evidenced by these multiple videos, all new wheels have problems even the V13 with it's fantastic build quality. 😅

Every, single, time, this is what early batch means for a lot of people.

I don't know about you but I learned my lessons over multiple wheels, no more early batch for me.

Probably a prudent position requiring patience. However, in the tech industry at large, such a position is recommended. 

That said, EVERYTHING identified so for with the V13 does not seem to really affect mine. I mean when I replace the wheel I will reach out to get new bolts, etc. But there hasn't been any kind of huge issue causing the wheel to hurt people, etc. Everything so far can be linked to abuse or mistakes in disassembly / reassembly. 

15 minutes ago, Stevebee said:

So the previously broken suspension was cross threaded, although not the source of the noise. Any chance one of the many previous owners removed the damaged one and cross threaded it putting it back. Or it came like that from the factory. I know what scenario I put my money on!

I know which one I'm putting my money on too. All the people that have ridden and abused that wheel before it came to BC? Yeah, I'm not worried about this happening to my wheel in the slightest. 

[Eyss]

2 hours ago, HEC said:

Finally, how come, that none of the bolts issues were noticed (or at least reported) during the internal testing with such heavy abuse?? I'm still unsure if this is a material (low grade bolts) or assembly (incorrect torque) issue. Some clarification from Inmotion side is really overdue now.

Could be testers didn't dissemble the wheel. 

Could be the larger batch meant the quality control failed hard. 

I vaguely remember squall heart saying that his demo wheel had different bolts from the production model?

1 hour ago, HEC said:

However that still leaves one unknown factor, the required torque. 

I think for the most part you can check the size of the bolt for roughly what torque is recommended. 

[Stevebee]

32 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

So, as evidenced by these multiple videos, all new wheels have problems even the V13 with it's fantastic build quality. 😅

Every, single, time, this is what early batch means for a lot of people.

I don't know about you but I learned my lessons over multiple wheels, no more early batch for me.

In a lot of these videos it’s the exact same wheel that’s being passed on to the next reviewer in the queue. Marty broke the top suspension and you can follow its route through various reviewers. So I’m not putting too much weight on the numbers. I’d put more accuracy on actual users reviews on this forum once it gets more numbers in the wild

Edited February 7, 2023 by Stevebee

[onizukagto]

Sellers also like to take apart demo wheels that they send around for reviews, if you're gonna be undertaking warranty and repairs, they are certainly going to take apart a new wheel to see how it ticks, assemble and the wear and tear of an abused wheel.

So i know where my money goes, if i had to say what these motor-bolt issues are coming from.

Until we get a large enough sample size of issues from 2%-5% of the 1st batch, its pure FUD speculation to say it's a design/manufacture/assembly "flaw" for the V13.

P.S: It's also telling, how it's an unusually high number of pro-begode riders that are making aa fuss about this.....

Edited February 7, 2023 by onizukagto

[Rawnei]

44 minutes ago, onizukagto said:

Sellers also like to take apart demo wheels that they send around for reviews, if you're gonna be undertaking warranty and repairs, they are certainly going to take apart a new wheel to see how it ticks, assemble and the wear and tear of an abused wheel.

So i know where my money goes, if i had to say what these motor-bolt issues are coming from.

Until we get a large enough sample size of issues from 2%-5% of the 1st batch, its pure FUD speculation to say it's a design/manufacture/assembly "flaw" for the V13.

P.S: It's also telling, how it's an unusually high number of pro-begode riders that are making aa fuss about this.....

The whole purpose of sending out demo wheels early is to find flaws, in this particular case Inmotion skipped that part and started shipping right away.

If there's an issue reported by resellers and taken seriously by the manufacturer perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

4 hours ago, 2disbetter said:

Insofar that we are all not perfect and there is ALWAYS room for improvement? Sure! 

My thinking is that as a skilled motorcycle rider, and as an experienced EUC rider, who has been in a bad crash, and still comes back for more, that this was acceptable for her. I think Dawn would have risked more injury to herself if any would have jumped in her way. She tethers herself to her wheels. Her willingness to sacrifice herself and her skill at riding at these speeds made this acceptable. Notice that all of the people she passed were far on the side. 

I think people just like to armchair quarterbacking too much on the internet personally. 

 

There were 4 dogs she went by at 47-50mph, are you saying if one ran out in front of her at that speed she would have been able to avoid it? I'm not "armchair quarterbacking" when i think it's reckless to be riding a 120lb unknown wheel 3 feet from people on a walking path with dogs on it.  Things like this keep happening and they will be banned here in the US you can bet on that. I don't feel like possessing $8,000 worth of art. Is it that hard to respect people walking on footpaths?

[Paul A]

15 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

at that speed

 

[2disbetter]

9 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

There were 4 dogs she went by at 47-50mph, are you saying if one ran out in front of her at that speed she would have been able to avoid it? I'm not "armchair quarterbacking" when i think it's reckless to be riding a 120lb unknown wheel 3 feet from people on a walking path with dogs on it.  Things like this keep happening and they will be banned here in the US you can bet on that. I don't feel like possessing $8,000 worth of art. Is it that hard to respect people walking on footpaths?

I wasn't saying that the people saying anything are wrong. I was merely commenting on the increased likelihood of hearing an opinion when the possibility to voice it is through the internet. 

YES, if a dog jumped out in front of her, it would have been a problem. Just like if I was riding a bike at 20 mph and a dog jumps out in front of me. The dog will be hurt in both cases. Could she swerve and try to avoid hitting the dog? Possibly, but this doesn't make it any less dangerous. I was merely saying that I think Dawn knew what she was doing in the video. 

[novazeus]

8 hours ago, conecones said:

Seems like a non-issue, especially when its common to check the axle bolts on all new wheels before riding them.

i've never checked axle bolts on the ten new wheels i've bought.

how many hours of labor for one person to check the v13 bolts?

[GHOSTTE]

8 minutes ago, novazeus said:

i've never checked axle bolts on the ten new wheels i've bought.

how many hours of labor for one person to check the v13 bolts?

Dropping the motor of the V13 takes five minutes

[novazeus]

7 hours ago, GHOSTTE said:

Dropping the motor of the V13 takes five minutes

i think jason might want to hire u if it only takes u 5 minutes.

exactly why i don't want someone else working on a brand new wheel.

i couldn't find the official inmotion how to check ur axle bolts one.

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by novazeus

[GHOSTTE]

43 minutes ago, novazeus said:

i think jason might want to hire u if it only takes u 5 minutes.

exactly why i don't want someone else working on a brand new wheel.

i couldn't find the official inmotion how to check ur axle bolts one.

 

Five minutes here for a motor drop

 

[conecones]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

i've never checked axle bolts on the ten new wheels i've bought.

how many hours of labor for one person to check the v13 bolts?

Just because you didn't check and apparently had no issues, doesn't mean this is a smart thing to do nor does it say much about overall quality of any of the wheels with such a small sample size.

When you buy a bicycle (doesn't matter how much $ or brand), most people have the common sense to understand that they should occasionally check the bolts are tight because they should be responsible for their own safety and this is something that that gets exposed to a lot of vibration and stress. Bolts loosen, this isn't new thing, but it seems to be a trend that that this kind of common sense goes out the door when the purpose is to bash a wheel or brand. 

[SquallLHeart]

15 hours ago, Paul A said:

Why wasn't Dawn's speed test conducted on a highway/freeway where 90kph is permitted?

Because it would be too dangerous?

Because it would be acceptable to endanger others, but be safer for the rider?

 

Dawn was a skilled motorcycle racer.

She was unwilling to ride amongst cars, on roads that are designed for and permit the high speeds?

 

An EUC, 90kph....for headroom?

Seems pointless.

Southern California.. likely, the roads were filled with traffic and wouldn't have had the adequate room to conduct the test.

[SquallLHeart]

10 hours ago, HEC said:

The bolts are not that common (unlike for example the V12 pedals hanger ones), as they have partially counter sunk heads plus (to me yet) unknown length and size. If anyone can provide required dimensions (or even better point to reliable source selling matching bolts), I'll be more than happy to purchase them myself. However that still leaves one unknown factor, the required torque. 

I purchased a bunch of my own bolts using the specs that I was able to obtain.. and the torque specs are nothing special.. I used Google to find the torque specs for that size and grade bolt.. 😶

not really a secret magical number or anything.