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(New) Gotway " Extreme Bull " Commander leaked datasheet


stephen

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9 hours ago, That Guy said:

My understanding is that Commander has a fundamental design flaw.

Would you care to elaborate what you mean so we don't have to guess?

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27 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Would you care to elaborate what you mean so we don't have to guess?

Of course. I think the engineers who designed the Extreme Bull Commander didn’t provide for cooling. It is not just inadequate or weak or unreliable - it is just non-existent. It was obvious for people who had the first look inside. It was confirmed in the first trials. The wheel is running hot and it is simply because the engineers sadly didn’t have a clue it was needed. And does bother me when a new company tries to build something (not really new or innovative any more) with a fundamental lack of understanding.

They will need to lift the top part by up to an inch and let more air flow under the electronics compartment to rectify the problem. And then it will be a different wheel all together.

Just my understanding.

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EB creates a cavity with a slot that a sealed ice block slides into next to the heat sink....

Would have thought engineers should be competent enough to have considered cooling electronics.

Bit difficult to have confidence in the quality, safety, reliability etc.

 

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Beginning to suspect maybe there are no engineers at Begode.

Reading through the various posts and threads, the volume of observations pointing out deficiencies, some that seem so basic and obvious....perhaps the engineers/competent personnel left with the formation of Veteran.

 

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18 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Beginning to suspect maybe there are no engineers at Begode.

Reading through the various posts and threads, the volume of observations pointing out deficiencies, some that seem so basic and obvious....perhaps the engineers/competent personnel left with the formation of Veteran.

While it is pure speculation, from the direction and evolution we can observe on both manufacturer it seems plausible, when comparing what Leaperkim came up with the Abrams and Begode with the Extreme Bull.
The Hero might be an outlier disproving this theory tho.

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Supercurio said    "... when comparing what Leaperkim came up with the Abrams "

Looking through Wrongway's video of the Reccio Wheel last summer I noted Adam said Reccio was in talks with a Chinese company about producing it.

It is interesting that LeaperKim later release a wheel that has a diverging tube chassis joined at the bottom by a solid steel bar to which the motor is attached with motor power wires easily detachable external of the control box, easily removable batteries and plug and play headlight etc. All of these features that the Reccio wheel had.

Maybe the guys at LeaperKim just saw Rober Ace's video of the Reccio wheel and said "Hey, that's not a bad idea, let's see what we can do"

But saying what Leaperkim came up with may be giving them more credit than they deserve......

The Reccio looked like a light, fun, off-road wheel... The Abrams is more of a Juggernaut.

Edited by DavidB
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6 hours ago, eucVibes said:

Check out the Splyce Guard, just what the Commander needed !

 

What another 10% extra weight ? Small rubber bumpers on the corners would be lighter and more elegant.

I'd go the other way, swap out the 7.3A 21700 for some 15A 18650. Trading the 3600Wh for ~2400Wh and 5kg less weight and thinner side panels.

I think EB should give customers the option on batteries. Not just size but also quality. I'm sure there are many non American customers who would like to have the  eWheels LiTech battery pack. Although that may be exclusive to Jason and if GW/EB offered it to others they may get offside with their largest distributor.

Norwegians are not happy I hear with their Chinese Teslas and their LFP batteries which don't handle the cold very well whereas Australians will feel a lot more comfortable (safe) in their Chinese LFP Teslas this summer sitting in a traffic jam on a 43 degree C day over 60 degree tarmac.

Horses for courses

 

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17 minutes ago, DavidB said:

Looking through Wrongway's video of the Reccio Wheel last summer I noted Adam said Reccio was in talks with a Chinese company about producing it.

Oh, good pick! I did have an impression I have seen the Abrams’ exoskeleton concept once before in some video from some European place. Well, good on LeaperKim if it’s true and they indeed managed to build it from the idea up! :-) (We are yet to see, of course, if Abrams as good as it looks, but just by the look it is an impressive piece.)

Meanwhile didn’t Extreme Bull had Sherman for at least a year to learn? Ok, they did manage to beat Sherman in torque, which is good but not enough. I would expect to see much more than that. I was quite excited about Commander at first and thought I wouldn’t mind ordering it. But from what I am learning so far - sadly no, can’t risk it…

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On 11/13/2021 at 12:37 AM, div said:

Veteran introduced the whole roll bar / dual handle concept in the first place though, all Reccio did was to taper the shape to expose more of the tyre.

To me Veteran is simply continuing what they started with the Sherman.

No, Veteran added a roll cage to a plastic shell. It still basically a plastic shell bolted to the pedal hangers. Reccio went the next step and used  metal tube and steel cross bar as the chassis. I'm sure he got inspiration from the Veteran though.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Good to see the guts.

I've been asking myself: "Would I recommend Commander HT to a friend who owns a Sherman, likes to ride 70mi+ distances on flat pavement, doesn't exceed 35mph, and wants more torque?" A rather specific type of rider, I realize.

From the teardown, the only new-wheel unacceptable thing I see is: pedals without griptape or functional studs. Annoying, but easy to swap or mod.

As widely reported, cooling isn't great... but for non-mountainous terrain and the C38 HT model, it's enough.

So I suppose the answer is 'Yes' for the HT model? Wish there was more to get excited about here.
 

C30 HS, on the other hand, is just a terrible idea for a wheel with so little cooling. If you're looking to sustain speeds that are too fast for the HT motor, the HS model will overheat. Why bother.

Interesting that there hasn't been a successful 3600wh HS wheel yet. No stock wheel can take a 200lb rider further than Sherman, faster than Sherman.

.02

3 hours ago, yoos said:

teardown of the Commander by ecodrift

AM-JKLXLHtp3MTiefKksWmvRy64yWzlBVFuDhOfvoYCpOuQXjTtnPEeAHFelMMe4_FQYOahv7ABmTtQNwt79kN5KTVP8U0R0CzJLWciS4CW0Ex3QDNcxx4zg1irBvJHg01tjpOVlHrnOC2-I65V00ZA4jlbHNQ=w1920-h1080-no?authuser=0

Edited by RagingGrandpa
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2 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

As widely reported, cooling isn't great... but for non-mountainous terrain and the C38 HT model, it's enough.

I have the HT model and hit mountainous terrain regularly without any overheating.  The wheel temperature is usually around 44-51 riding up and down inclines.  Only issue I have with the wheel is the slippery pedals and handle screws which tend to come undone from frequent use.  

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Well, let's be frank about what we know :)

12 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Are these a fire danger

Yes, all Nickel-Cobalt Lithium Ion cells are a hazard, because they can reach a runaway temperature at which they will burn unstoppably until their contents are consumed.

12 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

different from the M50T

Yes, this is different from the M50T.

M50LT is a newer-design 21700 LG cell.

12 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

that caused the fires

We don't know what caused the previous Gotway pack fires. Evidence of root cause has not been found yet. But I understand your point... M50T was involved in most of them.

Let's monitor the new M50LT (and 48X and 50E and P42A) wheels as their volumes increase over time, hoping to see lower incidence rate.

 

Edited by RagingGrandpa
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32 minutes ago, bracky72 said:

Jason specifically states the M50LT

It was a misunderstanding at the time of his post.

The issue at hand is the 900wh pack type introduced in early 2020 with 100V Nikola and MSuper Pro. Those suspicious cells are branded LG and start with M... but they're not the same as M50LT which started shipping just recently in late 2021 (with no reported fires yet).

 

32 minutes ago, bracky72 said:

the battery pack being recalled

There is no recall yet. Perhaps one will come...

  

On 11/10/2021 at 10:43 AM, RagingGrandpa said:

As we scrutinize cells, it will be important to keep the product names straight. There are 3 LG cell models being conflated- they are not the same.

AM-JKLVdVqjnV4FUzlcnTBeJdLC3ExaBZiMI0GZCec5EOudeWMhg1azx_lzFCm-rutFqD51uLFGhtMCgUbvm8CgiVhPsD9eONEGLxM1KPOo5EGUPdRgxkHpTN2sMd-H6-w3rlzjlwDvB2cMR0fM5CcLz56VE6A=w987-h201-no?authuser=0

Edited by RagingGrandpa
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