WARNING!!! genuine Leaperkim Veteran-450 5A charger can fry itself and the Sherman's control board! (You can open the charger and look at its capacitors to see if you are affected. Be careful.)

[Shad0z]

So I've got 2 chargers for my sherman, should I not dare to even charge with both, go ahead and do it, or should I just keep it for situations where I absolutely need the faster charging? what's the status on this

[fbhb]

@Shad0z If you have read through All my posts in this topic, you will know that I have been through this charger/control board failure ordeal Twice now, even after carefully following the advice and assurances of Veteran themselves!

8 hours ago, Shad0z said:

what's the status on this

I have very recently received an update from Veteran, via my seller, to state that the Second replacement charger I would receive along with the Second replacement control board would definitely have 220uf capacitors.  Thanks to the very professional service I have received from my seller in China, I was even sent a photo showing the internals of the exact Leaperkim 5A charger I would be sent under warranty!

Since the package only just arrived recently I have opened up the replacement 5A charger to compare with the original one that I got with the wheel and had already got 220uf capacitors fitted.  You may have seen elsewhere a topic where @YZPOWER commented that they would be upgrading the YZ-Power 450 5A chargers to the higher capacity 220uf capacitors and that appears to be exactly what I have had arrive as a replacement.

I have taken photos of the Original 5A charger with the New 5A charger alongside to compare the differences and there are many.  It appears that a number of changes have been made (at least to the New example I have here) clearly visible when looking at the 2 chargers side by side.

The Original 220uf charger (manufactured 2019) is shown at the bottom.  The New 220uf charger (manufactured late 2020) is shown at the top.

Side view of the 2 aluminium housings, top one is the New charger with an additional cooling fin.

 

1. The first thing I noticed was that an earthing lead has now been added and attached to the casing.

2. The second thing is that the resistor R4 that failed and fried my Original 150uf 5A charger is No longer included in this board layout.

3. Thirdly, the smaller Black capacitors on the Right hand side in these photos are Larger in diameter on the New charger.

4. Fourth thing is that the pad where the output for the charge lead's negative wire is soldered is different to the one used on the Original.

5. Fifth thing is a different supplier/brand for the 2 fans, which also have slightly different specs for current stamped on the label.

6. Sixth difference is the outer aluminium housing has 1 extra cooling fin on each side, machined out to accommodate the screws.

7. Seventh point to notice is that my Original 220uf charger has a build date of 2019, whereas the New one has a build date of: 2020.10.27

 

Given the long drawn out drama that these Leaperkim 450 5A chargers have caused for me, I personally would prefer to avoid their use and I actually have a Grin Cycle Satiator 360W 72V 5A on it's way to me.  Once the smart charger arrives, I Will Not use the standard Leaperkim 5A chargers and keep them purely as a back up option if required.

Now due to the wait involved for the Grin charger to arrive and having already installed the Second replacement control board, I have very reluctantly gone ahead and charged the Sherman with the New Leaperkim 5A 220uf charger with 2 Full charge cycles so far! 

NOTE:  I have Only done this, even at the risk of yet another control board failure, to make sure the changes YZ-Power have made to this latest version of the charger are seemingly reliable so that I can report back to my seller.   

Thankfully, the New 5A charger does appear to work as expected and actually seems to run cooler than I remember - so @Shad0z (or any other concerned New Sherman owners) it may be worth opening up your Leaperkim charger (as long as it's done with care!) to compare it to the Top photo (most recent 220uf 5A version) I have posted here.

As I mentioned previously, my confidence in the Leaperkim charger has diminished even with these obvious changes/initial charging results from the latest version, so I will be strictly limiting/avoiding the use of either of my 220uf Leaperkim 5A charger's as a precaution.

Edited April 26, 2021 by fbhb

[Voyex]

Thanks for documenting these occurrences. I was teetering on the edge but after reading about so many issues with the Veteran chargers, I think I'm going to buy the ewheels rapid charger so I can worry a little less that the charger is going to kill my wheel.

[null]

Thank you all the details, I'll look closer at the photos.
I hope for everyone that YZ have sorted it out, even though I won't use my remaining much or any.

9 hours ago, fbhb said:

Side view of the 2 aluminium housings, top one is the New charger with an additional cooling fin.

Just one detail: My dead YZ had that housing with the extra cooling fin, so it is regrettably not a sign of being of the improved type..

Edited April 26, 2021 by null

[fbhb]

3 hours ago, null said:

Just one detail: My dead YZ had that housing with the extra cooling fin, so it is regrettably not a sign of being of the improved type..

Oh please don't get me wrong thinking that any of these individual differences signifies anything other than changes to the specific 5A charger that I was purposely supplied, following my insistence that for me 220uf version works 150uf version Did Not!  I merely wanted to point out the obvious differences between the 2 separate 220uf chargers that I now own and comment on what I had been told by Veteran via my seller.

Out of the 4 Leaperkim 450 5A chargers that I currently own, All 4 of them are built so very differently to the point where you would think 4 different factories/companies had made them.  It would not surprise me in the least to find out that this is actually Not representative of every YZ-Power 5A charger now being supplied by Veteran, although I really do hope YZ-Power fixed things and there's No More risk of control board failures.

It will be interesting to see if for instance @Shad0z opens up his charger and posts internal photos here as a comparison, but as already mentioned I will Only be using my Grin smart charger just as soon as it arrives!  

Edited April 26, 2021 by fbhb

[Shad0z]

On 4/26/2021 at 1:02 AM, fbhb said:

@Shad0z If you have read through All my posts in this topic, you will know that I have been through this charger/control board failure ordeal Twice now, even after carefully following the advice and assurances of Veteran themselves!

I have very recently received an update from Veteran, via my seller, to state that the Second replacement charger I would receive along with the Second replacement control board would definitely have 220uf capacitors.  Thanks to the very professional service I have received from my seller in China, I was even sent a photo showing the internals of the exact Leaperkim 5A charger I would be sent under warranty!

Since the package only just arrived recently I have opened up the replacement 5A charger to compare with the original one that I got with the wheel and had already got 220uf capacitors fitted.  You may have seen elsewhere a topic where @YZPOWER commented that they would be upgrading the YZ-Power 450 5A chargers to the higher capacity 220uf capacitors and that appears to be exactly what I have had arrive as a replacement.

I have taken photos of the Original 5A charger with the New 5A charger alongside to compare the differences and there are many.  It appears that a number of changes have been made (at least to the New example I have here) clearly visible when looking at the 2 chargers side by side.

The Original 220uf charger (manufactured 2019) is shown at the bottom.  The New 220uf charger (manufactured late 2020) is shown at the top.

Side view of the 2 aluminium housings, top one is the New charger with an additional cooling fin.

 

1. The first thing I noticed was that an earthing lead has now been added and attached to the casing.

2. The second thing is that the resistor R4 that failed and fried my Original 150uf 5A charger is No longer included in this board layout.

3. Thirdly, the smaller Black capacitors on the Right hand side in these photos are Larger in diameter on the New charger.

4. Fourth thing is that the pad where the output for the charge lead's negative wire is soldered is different to the one used on the Original.

5. Fifth thing is a different supplier/brand for the 2 fans, which also have slightly different specs for current stamped on the label.

6. Sixth difference is the outer aluminium housing has 1 extra cooling fin on each side, machined out to accommodate the screws.

7. Seventh point to notice is that my Original 220uf charger has a build date of 2019, whereas the New one has a build date of: 2020.10.27

 

Given the long drawn out drama that these Leaperkim 450 5A chargers have caused for me, I personally would prefer to avoid their use and I actually have a Grin Cycle Satiator 360W 72V 5A on it's way to me.  Once the smart charger arrives, I Will Not use the standard Leaperkim 5A chargers and keep them purely as a back up option if required.

Now due to the wait involved for the Grin charger to arrive and having already installed the Second replacement control board, I have very reluctantly gone ahead and charged the Sherman with the New Leaperkim 5A 220uf charger with 2 Full charge cycles so far! 

NOTE:  I have Only done this, even at the risk of yet another control board failure, to make sure the changes YZ-Power have made to this latest version of the charger are seemingly reliable so that I can report back to my seller.   

Thankfully, the New 5A charger does appear to work as expected and actually seems to run cooler than I remember - so @Shad0z (or any other concerned New Sherman owners) it may be worth opening up your Leaperkim charger (as long as it's done with care!) to compare it to the Top photo (most recent 220uf 5A version) I have posted here.

As I mentioned previously, my confidence in the Leaperkim charger has diminished even with these obvious changes/initial charging results from the latest version, so I will be strictly limiting/avoiding the use of either of my 220uf Leaperkim 5A charger's as a precaution.

Both of my chargers seem to be the newer 220uf chargers from 2020 based on the housing, is there anything else to check on the outside, model number, date of manufacturing that can tell me whether they're the better 220uf or not, plan is to use one charger for general use and 2 whenever and if I ever absolutely need it

Currently charging my sherman with the 2 chargers, one of them says leaperkim, the other one just says YZ power charger

Edited April 28, 2021 by Shad0z

[Planemo]

On 4/26/2021 at 12:02 AM, fbhb said:

@Shad0z  I personally would prefer to avoid their use and I actually have a Grin Cycle Satiator 360W 72V 5A on it's way to me.  

I do hope you havent ordered a 72v charger...!

[fbhb]

1 hour ago, Planemo said:

I do hope you havent ordered a 72v charger...!

Yes, it's true I have ordered a 72v Smart Charger, however if you follow the link for the Grin Satiator 72v the website states you can program it to work with any voltage between 20v and 103v!  I have had this particular charger on my radar since 2018, when @EUCGUY posted a YouTube video setting it up and charging his 100v MSX. 

More recently the recommendation by @houseofjob(who's opinions I have a great respect for) written in another "Faulty Charger" topic  here confirmed this as by far the best option currently available for my personal requirements. 

The very high build quality and huge array of options to charge any voltage wheel I own (Z10 58.8v, S18 84v & Sherman 100.8v) or likely to own in future, plus my 2 e-bikes (36v and 48v) and e-skate (36v) actually makes the high price really good value IMHO.

Edited April 28, 2021 by fbhb

[fbhb]

8 hours ago, Shad0z said:

Both of my chargers seem to be the newer 220uf chargers from 2020 based on the housing, is there anything else to check on the outside, model number, date of manufacturing that can tell me whether they're the better 220uf or not, plan is to use one charger for general use and 2 whenever and if I ever absolutely need it

@Shad0z as confirmed by @null 5 posts back, the outside appearance Does Not actually confirm that you have 2x 220uf chargers from 2020.  You can Only confirm this by opening the chargers up and comparing the internals with my most recent photo, as I had suggested earlier.

The problem All along with the YZ-Power chargers is that the build from one to another is so random, so this Newer 2020 build version I was sent is a good reference point for any current improvements, but Not guaranteed to be 100% representative of what Veteran is supplying currently until we have some more concrete confirmation.

If you do go ahead and open them up to take a look at the 2 you have, especially as Only one is Leaperkim branded, please take care from a safety point of view but I fear you will very likely find them totally different internally and possibly even with 150uf or 180uf capacitors! 

As mentioned previously, I now own 4 of these and every one has obvious differences in build quality, component choice and layout!  

Please report back here and it would be good if you can post your own internal photos to help make others aware of the current charger being supplied?

[houseofjob]

1 hour ago, fbhb said:

Yes, it's true I have ordered a 72v Smart Charger, however if you follow the link for the Grin Satiator 72v the website states you can program it to work with any voltage between 20v and 103v!  I have had this particular charger on my radar since 2018, when @EUCGUY posted a YouTube video setting it up and charging his 100v MSX. 

More recently the recommendation by @houseofjob(who's opinions I have a great respect for) written in another "Faulty Charger" topic  here confirmed this as by far the best option currently available for my personal requirements. 

The very high build quality and huge array of options to charge any voltage wheel I own (Z10 58.8v, S18 84v & Sherman 100.8v) or likely to own in future, plus my 2 e-bikes (36v and 48v) and e-skate (36v) actually makes the high price really good value IMHO.

Aw shucks, thanks for the warm sentiments.

Yes, I too bought my 72V Grin Cycle Satiator after seeing @EUCGUY's video, absolutely zero regrets on the purchase (thanks Mathias). Others may think a 5A-ish or below charger of this size and price may be overpriced, but compared to all the cheap and pricey China chargers, the build quality and robustness of this charger is second-to-none IMHO. Plus, no loud and obnoxious fan to-boot, as the whole shell is a heatsink!

 

@Planemo FYI, I believe they label this 72V 20S because this is a common e-bike running voltage config (as Grin is an e-Bike supplies company), plus due to the 360W max power output, this is the last running voltage config before the max 5A starts to dip accordingly throughout the charge. Thus, the CS can still be used as high as 24S / "100V", but max Amp will be capped according to that 360W limit, something like ~3.57Amps at the peak end of charge. (the 72V CS can also be used all the way down to 36V 10S, but unlike the other CS configurations, the max amp does not go above 5A on this model unfortunately).

[fbhb]

55 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Aw shucks, thanks for the warm sentiments.

No worries on the warm sentiments, I've been around here and the EUC scene long enough to know it's well deserved praise Chris!

55 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Yes, I too bought my 72V Grin Cycle Satiator after seeing @EUCGUY's video, absolutely zero regrets on the purchase (thanks Mathias). Others may think a 5A-ish or below charger of this size and price may be overpriced, but compared to all the cheap and pricey China chargers, the build quality and robustness of this charger is second-to-none IMHO. Plus, no loud and obnoxious fan to-boot, as the whole shell is a heatsink!

My sentiments exactly, couldn't have put it any better myself and I would also like to add a personal Thank You to Mathias (aka @EUCGUY) for "switching" me on to this amazing piece of tech!

Edited April 29, 2021 by fbhb

[Planemo]

10 hours ago, fbhb said:

Yes, it's true I have ordered a 72v Smart Charger, however if you follow the link for the Grin Satiator 72v the website states you can program it to work with any voltage between 20v and 103v! 

No worries, I didnt look at the link, just saw your '72v' and jumped in to see if I could save you some heartache (like you need any more).

[null]

For those who know what those 220uf caps do (and considering the weaker versions are related to the failure):

Would lowering the amperage to, say 3A, make the charger safer?
I (and probably many others) have a working version with smaller caps, and it would be neat not to just throw it away.

Edited April 29, 2021 by null

[Tawpie]

I don't have schematics, but @YZPOWER indicated they are for smoothing the input voltage, particularly when set to 220V input. I don't think reducing output current would have any effect.

[Shad0z]

On 4/28/2021 at 10:31 PM, fbhb said:

@Shad0z as confirmed by @null 5 posts back, the outside appearance Does Not actually confirm that you have 2x 220uf chargers from 2020.  You can Only confirm this by opening the chargers up and comparing the internals with my most recent photo, as I had suggested earlier.

The problem All along with the YZ-Power chargers is that the build from one to another is so random, so this Newer 2020 build version I was sent is a good reference point for any current improvements, but Not guaranteed to be 100% representative of what Veteran is supplying currently until we have some more concrete confirmation.

If you do go ahead and open them up to take a look at the 2 you have, especially as Only one is Leaperkim branded, please take care from a safety point of view but I fear you will very likely find them totally different internally and possibly even with 150uf or 180uf capacitors! 

As mentioned previously, I now own 4 of these and every one has obvious differences in build quality, component choice and layout!  

Please report back here and it would be good if you can post your own internal photos to help make others aware of the current charger being supplied?

Will definitely go ahead and open them up, I know how to take safety precautions so I should be fine, might not be able to do pictures since I'd have to do some external site stuff, but I'll definitely report what I find inside

[Boogieman]

Sherman charger (and Sherman latest batch) arriving in 35 days - but reading this makes me nervous :-S

Got an additional charger like 6 months ago, a JiaRui JR-B900-100 (base manufacturer is still YzPower...but hopefully not the same "crap" that Veteran delivers with the Sherm...or the addon one)

Bonus: Its a used one from a fellow EUCist - Shermanist actually (right now that feels like a warranty - lets hope the caps havent dried up though )
https://www.pmbatterychargers.com/900w-1008v-2a-6a-8a-current-adjustable-digital-display-partial-charge-lithium-li-ion-battery-charger-for-100v-gotway-free-shipping-p2874084.html

Maybe should open it just to see, null have opened a 72V one. At least they use a circular coil at one place which shows some kind of quality sign

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Boogieman

[supercurio]

Thanks everyone for the invaluable information.
I have a Sherman coming in a few weeks and will check which revision it is and how well it's built.

I own a BST900W DC-DC converter which boosts up to 120V and a 2000W 0-60V PSU: this combo could be an alternative to the stock charger if it appears to be a bad unit.

On the go.. well the huge battery pack reduces the need for that  but I'll look for alternatives just in case.

Edited May 11, 2021 by supercurio

[Ben Kim]

welp, now i have a SECOND Sherman charger that doesn't charge at the full 4.3-4.4A.  Now I have two chargers that both only charge around 2.1-2.2A.  No clue why this is happening or if it can be fixed.  My understanding is it can't.  

edit - just checked both of my chargers.  they have the brown/yellow "good" capacitors, but both only charge at half the speed.  Can't say I'm comfortable using these knowing what I do, guess I'll have to use my known good Gotway 3A charger until I can find a suitable replacement. 

Double edit - The second charger decided to magically charge at 4.4A again. I’ll keep an eye on it to make sure it wasn’t some fluke. 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Ben Kim

[Planemo]

About to order some decent 400v 220uF Nichicon caps, but theres a few options...specifically around ripple current. Anyone know what would be best?

Some are 1200mA, some are half that. Does it even matter in our application?

[RagingGrandpa]

44 minutes ago, Planemo said:

ripple current
Does it even matter in <an AC->DC power supply>?

Yes. Higher ratings are better

Sorry that it takes more detailed analysis to decide "how much is enough"... so if this is just retrofit to an existing charger, I recommend getting the highest value that is practically available, and then stress testing (max power, max temp) to validate.

(The only downside of "higher ripple rating" is the capacitor may need to be physically larger than its lower-rated alternatives, and, correspondingly, more expensive)

Edited May 21, 2021 by RagingGrandpa

[Planemo]

57 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Yes. Higher ratings are better

Sorry that it takes more detailed analysis to decide "how much is enough"... so if this is just retrofit to an existing charger, I recommend getting the highest value that is practically available, and then stress testing (max power, max temp) to validate.

Cheers for that. Yeah its a bit of a minefield, when I changed the caps in one of my ebike chargers a while back I was given the direct link and only needed to know the voltage and uF. Starting from scratch with this one is a bit tricky. I will go for the highest ripple but I dont know if doing so reduces capacity in some other area!

Edit: ok I have hit a bit of a brick wall. There really isnt much space inside the case to play with. The stock caps are around 36mm tall/18mm wide. The base circles printed on the pcb are about 22mm so theres some jiggle room available but height is about maxed out in the stock caps. All the decent 400v/220uF caps I have looked at are not only wider but also taller.

I can find caps which are aeound the max 36/37mm tall but then they are like 25mm diameter which is too much. It's really tight on the other surrounding components.

I would be interested to hear what 220uF caps have been fitted to the 'upgraded' YZ charger cos I am struggling to find them!

Edited May 21, 2021 by Planemo

[fbhb]

1 hour ago, Planemo said:

I would be interested to hear what 220uF caps have been fitted to the 'upgraded' YZ charger cos I am struggling to find them!

I will open up the latest charger again and get a clearer photo of All the markings on the 220uf caps for you. Will be posted back here to this topic a little later on today. 

[fbhb]

@Planemo to help keep things easier to follow, both for yourself and others, I'm adding All the charger photos I have available and also previously posted, along with the close up of the latest 5A 220uf charger caps.

1. First up is a comparison of the 2x original chargers that arrived with my Sherman back in November. The 150uf charger is at the top and the original 220uf at the bottom (this 220uf actually worked flawlessly, while the original 150uf is the one that blew a capacitor and took out the Sherman control board)

2. Second is the First 5A replacement received at the end of January, but unfortunately again it arrived with 150uf caps. After being assured by Veteran via my seller that this one would perform correctly with my Sherman, this one also took out the control board!

3. Third photo shows a comparison of the latest 220uf charger (that arrived at the end of April) at the top and the original 220uf charger at the bottom. There are numerous changes visible both to the layout, some components and even including the physically larger caps on the Right hand side!

4. Fourth photo is a close up of the text written on one side of the 220uf capacitor fitted to the latest 5A charger I received at the end of April.

5. Fifth photo is a close up of the text written on the opposite side of the 220uf capacitor fitted to the latest 5A charger I received at the end of April.

 

@Planemo I hope the above photos enable you to track down the 220uf caps you require to upgrade your 5A charger. Also, having photos of All my various versions here in one post should allow you and others to clearly see what a "dice roll" we All have had with what actual build of charger gets supplied with the Sherman!

As mentioned in other topics elsewhere regarding other components used on the Sherman, I would imagine that any remaining stocks of 150uf chargers will continue to be shipped with wheels before we start to see Only the 220uf capacitor version being supplied, unfortunately!

Anyway despite everything written here and elsewhere, I really do love the Sherman and the way it rides which I'm confident will be your experience too in the long term.

Let me know if you need any further photos or info, I'm always happy to help others where I can?

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by fbhb

[Tawpie]

10 hours ago, Planemo said:

 

About to order some decent 400v 220uF Nichicon caps, but theres a few options...specifically around ripple current. Anyone know what would be best?

Some are 1200mA, some are half that. Does it even matter in our application?

 

Without a schematic it’ll be difficult to know for sure, but in general you want a higher ripple current rating since ripple = heat in the cap and heat is bad. The thing we don’t know without a schematic is how much ripple current is being supplied to the cap—if only 10mA of ripple current is present, a cap that can handle 1200mA probably has more design margin than necessary.

[Planemo]

Thanks guys.

@fbhb, are you able to measure the length and width of the big caps please?

I notice they are manfactured by HKLCON, never heard of them. I would prefer Nichicon or Rubycon but I guess if HKL is the only option then I might have to go for them if they are the only ones that fit.