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WARNING!!! genuine Leaperkim Veteran-450 5A charger can fry itself and the Sherman's control board! (You can open the charger and look at its capacitors to see if you are affected. Be careful.)


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Thank You for the info :ph34r: the Sherman been on my top coice on my next wheel. But think ill hold on slight n se how this turns out if this is a spread problem for more owners. Noting is  perfect but id like to avoid a fire.

 

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5 hours ago, Chriull said:

There seem to be some problems with your pictures permissions - can't be seen here by me.

Yes, I'm aware about the photos and will get it sorted in due course (they are Only showing for me in this and my other posts too, unfortunately! Thanks for your help and Cheers)

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The sherman is a investment on the price it got its in the high end euc marked ,n become fast the wheel to Get in 2020.

if one look on all the shermans sold vs issues the ratio is still low on faults. 
Oh well just to try to keep up..

 

 

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Thanks for this, I am going to open up my YZ Power 100v 6A charger and see what rating the caps are now...it hasn't given me any problems (yet) but it will be interesting to know..

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  • meepmeepmayer changed the title to WARNING!!! genuine Leaperkim Veteran-450 5A charger can fry itself and the Sherman's control board! (You can open the charger and look at its capacitors to see if you are affected. Be careful.)
On 1/31/2021 at 3:27 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

It's not like there's less current in the battery cables than the motor cables (right?)...

I suppose the current from the batteries is smoother as it serve to charge the capacitors, while the current going to the motor do it in bursts. (?)

It seems though that modern EUCs are too powerfull for this small soldered area to take that much current, as both Marty’s overheat hill Sherman and the NYC demo monster vaporized the board right there.

(Thanks for the write up and pictures @fbhb , much clearer than my rant. Besides I only have the smaller caps versions)

Edited by null
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Mine are the 150uF Tianchen caps...:(

Although my 6A charger does run across 2 boards...if I run one board it outputs 3A...maybe the 5A version that Veteran is using is asking too much for one board...dunno...but I haven't had any issues and was running it in direct sunlight on the hottest day of the year last summer, on the longest ride (charged 4 times in a day)

0312021154537.thumb.jpg.07cd720e8d677b52f6f4dde9ae605c12.jpg

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21 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Any idea what the mechanism is behind what happened? Do the smaller capacitors simply get too hot because they are physically too small, and then you get a short?

The weird thing is that the caps in the blown charger look OK to me. Usually, a blown cap is very evident because they...well.. blow. Literally. The pressure part (end of the cap with 3 slots) will nearly always show signs of swelling/blown open but in this case it looks fine. It's only the resistor next to it that shows obvious damage.

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Yes its the resistance (?) right besides it that burnt, both on his and my charger.
(marked R3 on the board. On mine both R3 and R4 look burnt)
I do not have enough knowledge to get what is the issue, could be unrelated to the caps for all I know..

( @Planemo with your 2x3A you should probably be safer indeed)

 

 

Edited by null
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8 hours ago, xSAMCOx said:

The sherman is a investment on the price it got its in the high end euc marked ,n become fast the wheel to Get in 2020.

if one look on all the shermans sold vs issues the ratio is still low on faults. 
Oh well just to try to keep up..

 

 

Its not low on faults, if you consider mass production that includes substandard, missing protections and under specd parts.

Its a low on complete operational failure at best.

if one look on all the shermans sold vs issues the ratio is still low on faults. - is exactly what the euc companies are banking on. Being content with such an idea, when poor parts are being used, is exactly why this happens. If you buy a car and a design is KNOWN to have  fatal flaws that could ruin it, would you be happy knowing that it only happens to some? You know, some that are made exactly like what you invested in. If it were something other than poor parts selection, at least we could assume it was an accident.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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52 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Its not low on faults, if you consider mass production that includes substandard, missing protections and under specd parts.

Its a low on complete operational failure at best.

if one look on all the shermans sold vs issues the ratio is still low on faults. - is exactly what the euc companies are banking on. Being content with such an idea, when poor parts are being used, is exactly why this happens. If you buy a car and a design is KNOWN to have  fatal flaws that could ruin it, would you be happy knowing that it only happens to some? You know, some that are made exactly like what you invested in. If it were something other than poor parts selection, at least we could assume it was an accident.

Its risk vs reward :popcorn: like if one buys a Tesla the chance is skyhigh on getting faults like poor build quality. Yet the reward is one of the better Electric cars with the best charge infrastructure. 

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4 hours ago, xSAMCOx said:

Its risk vs reward :popcorn: like if one buys a Tesla the chance is skyhigh on getting faults like poor build quality. Yet the reward is one of the better Electric cars with the best charge infrastructure. 

I agree completely. For now, the euc game is a risk vs reward.. big time. We all continue to buy into them, even tho we know its a little low on quality and reliability. Theres choices of euc's but sometimes it seems like theres no CLEAR quality choices. Still, they are a choice and its way better than none. However, we arent talking 'cutting edge technology' being the culprit. I undertand that complex systems fail. Trying NEW tech is a dice roll. But a damn wall charger?! Surely this isnt pushing the edge of tech nowadays. Im merely seeing the same thing as always... companies going cheap in critical areas. Blatant disregard for known technologies that have been PROVEN. A lack of proper parts revision documentation or any semblance of a real PLAN to do so. I'm not well versed in electrical components, but surely amperage requirements and protection/fuse devices arent above the realm of a typical electronics engineer? Even if it is complicated, someone has ALREADY done the testing of the components involved, the tendecy of fail at certain tempratures and vibration useage. I could build a mouse trap that works, as the design is proven. Hell, I dont even need know much about it, to just adhere to what someone else has figured out. Ugh, I'm so sick of cheap shortcuts that wind in some stupid small failure. They wouldnt put lamp chord in a tesla. They dont have to even try it to know that, its common knowledge nowdays. I enjoy my wheels so much is why this even bothers me. I hate knowing that Im riding a timebomb and that my pockets may be emptied again very soon.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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Large capacitors like that are generally used to filter the powersupply. As such, a little more won't hurt. 

A bad electrolytic capacitor will usually be obvious.

They tend to pop when they go bad. They usually have lines scored on the top, so they "pop" instead of "bang."

Look at yours. If the tops are still flat, then they are most likely OK.

If they are bulged, or some icky stuff has leaked out then they are definitely bad.

Leaperkim themselves say it's fine to charge at 10amps. I charged at 10a and the batteries were fine but it unfortunately blew my rear light and shorted something on the main board to the rear light....

Now I'm running just front headlights and splicing in a rear light with a dual connector (seems to work) until a new board under warranty arrives. The wheel itself seems to be working fine.... Although I am noticing temperature spikes which are quite concerning. 

I don't think the chargers having sightly different micro farads (UF) blew your board. However, maybe like mine the board itself couldn't take the 10a charge🤷🏽‍♂️.... The batteries can though. 

I have noticed new Gotways have serrate boards for the lights to the power now.... Food for thought.....

Diagnosing your original issue is tricky goes beyond my knowledge of boards🤷🏽‍♂️

 

 

DSC_0043.JPG

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Speaking of diagnosis: I could take some high rez pics of both sides of charger and controller board if anyone think they could get something from it. Or multimeter measurements.

Dead tail light: mine died too, no idea from what but I do (did) charge at 10A. (no noticeable heat) (The charger died when charging alone though)

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My stock Veteran charger also died on me within a month; seller sent me a new controller within a few weeks.

Fun fact: The stock Veteran charger is rated for 450W, and confirmed with a current monitor to deliver 4.39-4.41A of current, not 5A.  

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13 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

 Assuming the control circuit was redesigned for the 150 µF cap, the value should be immaterial. EXCEPT, the 150 µF output cap will probably run warmer than the 220 µF.

Good info thanks. I think I'm taking away from that, that simply changing the caps to bigger ones might not be a good move.

That said, I used to be on an eMTB forum and a lot of the guys were blowing the caps in their 2A chargers. Everyone (including me) upped the cap size and they worked faultlessly afterwards, so I guess it can work, just depends on the rest of the circuit I 'spose. As a side note, none of us suffered any controller/battery damage when the caps blew, unlike the Sherman...

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1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

The damage shown in your blown charger 

Just wanted to clarify that it's not my charger which has blown (my 6A one is fine). But I might stick some 'pucky' on it anyway :)

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4 hours ago, Tawpie said:

C'est l'une de ces choses ... la valeur aurait dû être choisie avec soin, mais il y a une marge de manœuvre (marge de conception dans la stabilité de la boucle de contrôle MOSFET), donc changer la valeur de plafond pourrait ne pas nuire aux choses. Mais ce n'est pas garanti. Ce qui provoque typiquement la défaillance d'un condensateur électrolytique est "un courant d'ondulation excessif" qui provoque la surchauffe du composant. Lorsque vous choisissez une valeur de plafond qui verra des courants d'ondulation élevés, le concepteur aurait dû spécifier une pièce avec une faible ESR (résistance de série équivalente) et peut-être l'a-t-il fait, mais l'achat a choisi d'obtenir une pièce moins chère (ou peut-être 150 µF était tout ce qu'ils pouvaient obtenir). Vous pouvez envisager de trouver un plafond ESR 150 µF plus bas et qui pourrait être échangé en toute sécurité, ou tenter votre chance et le remplacer par une pièce à faible ESR 220 µF et croiser les doigts pour qu'il soit stable. Ou laissez-le tel quel.

Mais jusqu'à ce que quelqu'un rétroconce le chargeur en détail, c'est de la spéculation.

Une autre grande différence entre le 220 µF et le 150 µF dans vos photos est l'absence de rondelle blanche sur le 150 µF. Le pucky dans cette application fonctionne comme un `` jalonnement '' et place littéralement la pièce sur la carte afin qu'elle soit moins susceptible de se déplacer et de se casser au niveau du joint de soudure / plomb. Les dommages indiqués sur votre chargeur grillé ont un petit air d'arc sous la pièce, le genre de chose qui peut se produire avec une tension et un courant élevés si la connexion physique a été compromise. Cette cambrure serait une mauvaise chose et pourrait ou non supprimer les appareils connectés. Dans tous les cas, sans le piquetage, le chargeur est un peu plus sensible aux chocs et aux vibrations qu'avec le piquetage.

 

I try to follow your explanations but it is not really my strong point of knowledge, that said I will simply ask a question or a simple question: can not insert a fuse in protection between the charger and the card ???

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