EUC World - Charging control in upcoming 2.4 release

[Seba]

Today I want to announce a feature that was to be added to EUC World a long time ago, but in the meantime there were other features with a higher priority. Winter means less opportunities for me to ride, so I can spend a little more time on application development. That's why among many new features the next EUC World update there will be a charger control feature. All you will need is a TP-Link HS-110 smartplug connected to your home WiFi network. EUC World can communicate directly with HS110, so no Kasa or other apps are needed.

EUC World in combination with HS110 will be able to work with every charger and every wheel. The application can actively monitor the process of charging and balancing the battery, and when the process of charging is completed, it will take care to disconnect the charger from the mains. The charging parameters can be checked at any time on the application screen... but not only More details soon.

 

 

[Freestyler]

Perfect! I have that very same plug, so I can provide feedback if needed.

[TomOnWheels]

Very cool ! This is what I asked for some moths ago. Also providing a way to add on/off URL will make it more universal, and compatible with most home automation software.

[Planemo]

Cool idea! But how accurate will it be? I would have thought a device between the charger and the wheel would be the only way to get a decent reading as it negates the parasitic losses from the charger itself. That said, this EUCW solution should give a good enough idea? I think I will have to buy one of those TP Link doo-daas.

[travsformation]

Nice one @Seba, very much looking forward to this!

[travsformation]

On 12/13/2020 at 9:43 PM, Planemo said:

Cool idea! But how accurate will it be? I would have thought a device between the charger and the wheel would be the only way to get a decent reading as it negates the parasitic losses from the charger itself. That said, this EUCW solution should give a good enough idea? I think I will have to buy one of those TP Link doo-daas.

  I think the priority is to bring affordable, easy-to-use charging control to the community, which this will certainly accomplish. I don't think such high levels of precision are necessary for the intended purpose, and if they are, the internal metering done by our wheels might not be up to the task either 😅

 

[Unventor]

On 12/13/2020 at 2:10 AM, Freestyler said:

Perfect! I have that very same plug, so I can provide feedback if needed.

I too have this as @Sebasuggested this one some time ago. 

[Planemo]

Are there any recommendations for which make/model of plug to use? I assume, like most things, there are good ones and crap ones. I wouldn't want a crap one

Edit: Ah sorry, I didn't know 'TP Link' was the make, I just thought it was a generic name for this type of plug monitor. I'll see if I can order one

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Planemo

[Seba]

1 hour ago, Planemo said:

Are there any recommendations for which make/model of plug to use? I assume, like most things, there are good ones and crap ones. I wouldn't want a crap one

Edit: Ah sorry, I didn't know 'TP Link' was the make, I just thought it was a generic name for this type of plug monitor. I'll see if I can order one

TP-Link HS110 is readily available in various stores around the world and is also relatively cheap, so I don't think you'll have any problem getting it :-) Just remember that there is also cheaper HS100 variant that won't work with EUC World, because it lacks energy metering capabilities.

[Jonesq]

Is the HS110 the only model that will work? The price for the HS110 seems to have gone up significantly as it is unavailable in many stores in the U.S. and is now selling for $110.

Specifically, would these work? https://www.amazon.com/TOPGREENER-Powerful-Monitoring-Appliances-Assistant/dp/B07FDGYYN7/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=hs110+smart+plug&qid=1608150273&sr=8-6

[meepmeepmayer]

That's pretty cool!

Can you set it to stop charging at a given point (by switching the plug off)? E.g. "stop at 80V" or "stop at 80%"? Or can that TP Link thingie not read voltages?

In addition to your "switch off after balancing" for a full charge, as I understood your first post.

Edited December 16, 2020 by meepmeepmayer

[Chriull]

On 12/12/2020 at 8:18 PM, Seba said:

The charging parameters can be checked at any time on the application screen... but not only More details soon

Great! Battery current is now available with the newer KS?

Should enable EUC World to give misbalancing warnings - if the BMS cuts off due to cell (group) overvoltage the charging current should jump prematurely to zero. Maybe also nicely to be noticed from the current/power consumption reported from the HS110?

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Can you set it to stop charging at a given point (by switching the plug off)? E.g. "stop at 80V" or "stop at 80%"? Or can that TP Link thingie not read voltages?

EUC World gets battery voltage reported from the wheel. For some wheels charging current, too - as seen in the screenshot of sebas first post.

So a no balancing (~~80%) charge would have stopped at after 2 hours plus some minutes once voltage stayed about constant and charge current started to decrease.

[RagingGrandpa]

Ordered an HS110.

My MSX shuts down automatically after ~20min of inactivity.
Hopefully this EUC World feature will tolerate BT connection being lost and restored while continuing to log HS110 power data...

[Seba]

36 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Ordered an HS110.

My MSX shuts down automatically after ~20min of inactivity.
Hopefully this EUC World feature will tolerate BT connection being lost and restored while continuing to log HS110 power data...

No worry. EUC World can control charger operation without EUC connectivity. The only limitation is that having EUC connected during charging allows to terminate charge at custom battery level (80% for example) which is what I don't recommend as it may lead to premature battery failure, as battery balancing takes place at 100 % (but you already know this ). So EUC World with HS110 is able to control entire charging process up to 100 %, including balancing phase management.

[Seba]

On 12/16/2020 at 9:25 PM, Jonesq said:

Is the HS110 the only model that will work? The price for the HS110 seems to have gone up significantly as it is unavailable in many stores in the U.S. and is now selling for $110.

Specifically, would these work? https://www.amazon.com/TOPGREENER-Powerful-Monitoring-Appliances-Assistant/dp/B07FDGYYN7/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=hs110+smart+plug&qid=1608150273&sr=8-6

Whoah! What a price difference! In Europe HS110 is sold for about 30 USD... Anyway, I'll try to find alternative that is cheaper in US, is readily available and offers features required by EUC World (known/discoverable/hackable communication protocol with direct connectivity and energy metering capabilities). 

[Seba]

@Chriull, I have something you'll like  EUC World will be able to write detailed CSV log for entire charging session, containings following data in one second interval:

• timestamp and duration
• mains voltage and current
• charger real power (W), apparent power (VA) and power factor
• energy consumed (Wh)
• battery voltage and current

From my experiences it's a great tool to diagnose battery problems. And good source of data for research.

[Chriull]

5 minutes ago, Seba said:

battery voltage and current

I assume only with newer KS and ?Inmotion?. I just got some batter current measurement possibilities of ks18 depending on firmware and motherboard version...

GW has nothing like this?

7 minutes ago, Seba said:

mains voltage and current

Although considering quite different 

7 minutes ago, Seba said:

power factor

s of switching mode power supplies this should still enable EUC World to give great insights in battery health/state!

[Seba]

9 hours ago, Chriull said:

I assume only with newer KS and ?Inmotion?.

No!  Every wheel that can be connected during charging (either it turns on automatically or require manual turn on)  This is because I only get voltage information from wheel. Battery current is calculated from battery voltage, real power and SMPS charger mathematical model. I've tested several chargers and created simple yet reliable SMPS charger model that takes into account typical charger efficiency and internal losses. Resulting battery current is within +- 0.1 A from measured one, which gives the same or even better accuracy than ampmeters built into chargers or mainboard current measurement circuits.

[Planemo]

15 hours ago, Seba said:

Whoah! What a price difference! In Europe HS110 is sold for about 30 USD... Anyway, I'll try to find alternative that is cheaper in US, is readily available and offers features required by EUC World (known/discoverable/hackable communication protocol with direct connectivity and energy metering capabilities). 

I just bought one in the UK from ebay and it was £17 delivered

Seller was Currys too, so I know it's not some monkey rip off fake one 

[Seba]

On 12/16/2020 at 9:25 PM, Jonesq said:

Is the HS110 the only model that will work?

@Jonesq, could you make a research about pricing and availability of Belkin WeMo Insight Smart Plug (https://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F7C029/) in US? Seems this may be a good candidate as an alternative for HS110.

[Planemo]

I think the one thing I am looking forward to is the ability to switch the charger off automatically once the battery is saturated (around 150ma draw), as it will avoid trickle charging for ages

I am only assuming we can set a cut-off point in the app to do this....

I can sort of do this with a mechanical timer plug but it's guesswork as to when the battery is fully charged and balanced...inevitably the charger is left on for longer than needed.

[Seba]

2 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I think the one thing I am looking forward to is the ability to switch the charger off automatically once the battery is saturated (around 150ma draw), as it will avoid trickle charging for ages

I am only assuming we can set a cut-off point in the app to do this....

You don't have to - balancing phase is managed automagically and charger will be disconnected in right moment 

[Chriull]

39 minutes ago, Planemo said:

once the battery is saturated (around 150ma draw

For inr21700 m50t and inr18650mj1 50 mA per cell are in the datasheet. For inr18650ga (?used in the 1860Wh msx 100V?) 67mA per are mentioned in the datasheet. So 6 x 67 mA~0.4A.150mA should "get a bit more charge inside", but burden the cells a bit more?

(Batteryuniversity mentions 3% of rated (max?) charging current, which leads to about the same current.)

Also the datasheet numbers are in conjunction with some 0.3C charging current and could be trimmed to achieve maximum capacity and not maximum lifetime?

Anyhow, having a dedicated cut off should be an improvement for battery handling - no matter if 0.15 or 0.3..0.4A!

33 minutes ago, Seba said:

You don't have to - balancing phase is managed automagically and charger will be disconnected in right moment 

Out of curiosity - what's the right moment? 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Chriull

[Planemo]

2 hours ago, Chriull said:

Out of curiosity - what's the right moment? 

That's what I was wondering... I think I would rather have the ability to set it to what I want....each wheel/battery/charger could be different surely?

I know when my MSX peaks out because the charge current doesn't drop to any less than about 150ma no matter how long I leave it, but not all setups would necessarily be the same?

[Seba]

4 hours ago, Chriull said:

Out of curiosity - what's the right moment? 

It's the moment of the CV phase where current will stabilize at roughly the same level. Of course there is also timing that prevents charger to work for too long and also to prevent premature balancing termination. You can see it on following screenshot (taken an the very end of balancing phase; Gotway MTen3).

4 hours ago, Chriull said:

Anyhow, having a dedicated cut off should be an improvement for battery handling - no matter if 0.15 or 0.3..0.4A!

When I worked on this feature general idea was to make it as user-friendly as possible, especially for non-technical users. That's why I wanted to minimize amount of settings required to make it working. In fact, it should work out of the box. Just search for HS110, connect charger to it and to the wheel  and tap "Start"