Max67 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 On 12/23/2020 at 2:16 AM, Seba said: Every wheel that can be connected during charging ... Can the Ninebot One E+ (my EUC) be connected during charging, and is it advisable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Max67 said: Can the Ninebot One E+ (my EUC) be connected during charging, and is it advisable? If it accepts being powered on during charge it shouldn't be a problem. If I recall right though Ninebots will turn off after a while though, at least my S2 did. Just try, it isn't a problem. Edited January 27, 2021 by null Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 (edited) On 1/26/2021 at 7:52 PM, Planemo said: I would rather not charge with the wheel on. what additional info/benefits there is in having the wheel on? If you want to use the partial-charging mode (which I don't recommend because there is no balancing), it can only work when the EUC is on and bluetooth is connected. But for the 'normal' 100% charging, the EUC connection is not needed. The only data that will be recorded is the input power (W), and charging will stop about 60 minutes after input power falls to 30W. The additional benefit of having the wheel on is only: recording of the EUC battery voltage, for your own reference and troubleshooting. Personally, I don't think this 'smart charging' is substantially better or worse than 'slow-charging overnight.' Instead, I think it's useful for easy, occasional confirmation of a battery pack's health... but if you enjoy using it every day, go for it. Edited January 28, 2021 by RagingGrandpa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 2 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said: The additional benefit of having the wheel on is only: recording of the EUC battery voltage, for your own reference and troubleshooting. That's what I thought. Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 I am not sure on early Ninebot models but since Inmotion V8 and forward for IM models you can connect to BT when wheel is off and while charging. Same goes for KS18L or newer (maybe even older ones from both brands). I am not sure but I think it is the case too for many GW/Begode too. I am sure @Sebacan share more light on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priit Kärsna Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I got HS110 yesterday. Tried with KS16X and stock charger -charged for 1 hour - HS110 was turned off after an hour -charged up to 70% - hs110 turned off after it -charged up to 100% - at 84,3V and 9W wheel lost connection, but HS110 was still on and green light of charger remained on Do I anything wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 (edited) On 1/28/2021 at 7:12 AM, Priit Kärsna said: -charged up to 100% - at 84,3V and 9W wheel lost connection, but HS110 was still on and green light of charger remained on KS wheels have a settable "sleep timer", so the wheel can turn off after some time of inactivity. Afair up to 2 hours? If it's set to 0, it's disabled. Edit: Just saw the information that with some KS Firmwares sleep timer cannot be disabled and 0 means immedeate sleep mode - so ?no possibility/very hard? to connect with the app again and set it to some other value... No matter if the wheel goes to sleep mode or not, it should ontinoue charging. Standard with EUC World is a charge stop ~1 hour after power dropped to ~ 30W. Don't know if the KS16X has some special behaviour? As it's measuring charge current itself and can/does some control by itself? Quote Do I anything wrong? How does the charge current graph look? Edited March 4, 2021 by Chriull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priit Kärsna Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 33 minutes ago, Chriull said: KS wheels have a settable "sleep timer", so the wheel can turn off after some time of inactivity. Afair up to 2 hours? If it's set to 0, it's disabled. No matter if the wheel goes to sleep mode or not, it should ontinoue charging. Standard with EUC World is a charge stop ~1 hour after power dropped to ~ 30W. Don't know if the KS16X has some special behaviour? As it's measuring charge current itself and can/does some control by itself? How does the charge current graph look? Wheel inactivity is set to 15 min. While charging, connection was nearly 5hours. 16X disconnected at 9W (don't know reason). I see from answer that I should have waitied for more time (it was less than hour from 30W) Screenshot before losing connection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 10 minutes ago, Priit Kärsna said: Wheel inactivity is set to 15 min. While charging, connection was nearly 5hours. Interesting - must be some ks16x speciality that charging within some parameter is no inactivity? Or charging current got too low and wheel turned off? (In this 9W the charger idle power consumption is included, too) 10 minutes ago, Priit Kärsna said: 16X disconnected at 9W (don't know reason). I see from answer that I should have waitied for more time (it was less than hour from 30W) As your charging graph looks very nice and normal and already went down to 0.1A you could "disable battery balancing" - then charging stops once power drops to ~30W. The ks16x has afair a 20s6p battery config, using 18650 cells. They have normally about 50-60mA end charging current. So if with "balancing disabled" at ~30W the charger stops at ~6*50mA=0.3A its a fine setting for your wheel! And you "save" 1 hour of charging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Priit Kärsna Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 46 minutes ago, Chriull said: ... The ks16x has afair a 20s6p battery config, using 18650 cells. They have normally about 50-60mA end charging current. So if with "balancing disabled" at ~30W the charger stops at ~6*50mA=0.3A its a fine setting for your wheel! And you "save" 1 hour of charging. Thank you for the answer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Priit Kärsna said: Wheel inactivity is set to 15 min. While charging, connection was nearly 5hours. 16X disconnected at 9W (don't know reason). I see from answer that I should have waitied for more time (it was less than hour from 30W) Screenshot before losing connection Everything is normal. Charging was still in balancing phase, which takes 1 hour. From this graph I see that this screenshot was captured at about ~30-40 minutes from balancing start. This week I will create tutorial movie about charging controller. Will be published on EUC World YT channel. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Chriull said: KS wheels have a settable "sleep timer", so the wheel can turn off after some time of inactivity. When EUC is connected to charger, mainboard is active all the time and this timer doesn't have any effect. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 10 hours ago, Unventor said: I am not sure on early Ninebot models but since Inmotion V8 and forward for IM models you can connect to BT when wheel is off and while charging. Same goes for KS18L or newer (maybe even older ones from both brands). I am not sure but I think it is the case too for many GW/Begode too. I am sure @Sebacan share more light on this. All new King Song wheels, Inmotion V11 and maybe some other wheels like Sherman enable Bluetooth LE connectivity during charging. There is no need to turn wheel on, mainboard will activate itself after detection of charger voltage. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Seba Posted January 28, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 28, 2021 13 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said: Personally, I don't think this 'smart charging' is substantially better or worse than 'slow-charging overnight.' Key benefit of using charging control in EUC World is possibility to automatically turn off the charger from mains after complete balancing phase. This improves charging safety while giving all benefits from proper battery balancing. But charging controller gives insight into battery condition. By examining charging graph you can easily determine problems like single-cell failure etc. Of course, using charging controller for every charging may be overkill 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max67 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 On 1/27/2021 at 2:46 PM, null said: If it accepts being powered on during charge it shouldn't be a problem. If I recall right though Ninebots will turn off after a while though, at least my S2 did. Just try, it isn't a problem. I did and it does seem to work fine, except as you pointed out, the 1E+ powers down after 10 minutes of inactivity, so I have to continually turn it back on to collect a full charge data set (including battery voltage & current). Is there a way to override (or extend) the inactivity shutdown period? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enaon Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) On 1/27/2021 at 9:41 PM, Max67 said: Can the Ninebot One E+ (my EUC) be connected during charging, and is it advisable? It can yes, just lock it before charging, it wont turn the BT off and is very power efficient in that mode, very low battery drain. Keep in mind that the ninebot E does not need to stop the charging, the bms takes the cells to 4.15 volts as opposed to say kingsong that takes them to 4.20. Edited February 4, 2021 by enaon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enaon Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) It is a real shame we don;t have smart bms's on our wheels yet. Even the xiaomi scooters have smart bms's on them, it is a disgrace https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=scooter.M365.battery&hl=en_US&gl=US we should have been able by now select the balancing voltage limits from within the bms. Edited February 4, 2021 by enaon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffontana Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 On 4/1/2021 at 4:26 PM, inMotional said: @Seba please support open source firmware Tasmota and its huge list of supported devices. @Seba would also be interesting if your app could connect to a MQTT server, so it could work with most domotic systems, regardless the brand or firmware of the plug. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesq Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 @Seba Will these plugs work with your app? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SWZ2N4J/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?tag=slicinc-20&ascsubtag=550f05646b1611eb88525a783dfab57c0INT&smid=A1BRJKB12CAV7X&psc=1 It has power monitoring and is cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 8 minutes ago, Jonesq said: @Seba Will these plugs work with your app? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SWZ2N4J/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?tag=slicinc-20&ascsubtag=550f05646b1611eb88525a783dfab57c0INT&smid=A1BRJKB12CAV7X&psc=1 It has power monitoring and is cheap! No. Just KS110 from TP Link is supported. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enaon Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) Anybody knows of a powerplug that uses BT instead of WIFi and runs on a NRF52832 so we can hack it ? The idea of monitoring the charge state and disconnecting mains when done is very nice, it can be done without the power features of the plug or the phone on Kingsong's wheels. The info needed to determine charge state is reported, the plug could just monitor the wheel and disconnect when done, standalone. Edited February 9, 2021 by enaon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Artene Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) On 1/26/2021 at 9:41 PM, Oleg Artene said: Thanks. Ordered from here It works. Thank you! I would like more control in setting percentage limit - a slider (like the speed limit option) Edited February 20, 2021 by Oleg Artene removed not working image Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max67 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 On 2/4/2021 at 4:15 PM, enaon said: It can yes, just lock it before charging, it wont turn the BT off and is very power efficient in that mode, very low battery drain. Thanks so much. Works perfectly, as described, letting me monitor battery voltage throughout charges. Appreciate insight on BMS charge control. I'd noticed that final voltage is below the 4.2x15=63V expected, in my case, 61.8/15=4.12V/cell. Presumably reduces risk of overcharge and extends battery life, with minimal reduction in range. Makes sense to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 18 hours ago, Max67 said: final voltage is ... 4.12V/cell The EUC controller's voltage measurement accuracy is generally poor, and varies from board to board, even of the same model EUC. EUC.world's charging control (when set to 100% SOC) does not use the EUC-reported voltage to stop the charging. Instead, it stops charging an hour after the HS110-reported power falls below 30 Watts. To confirm the end-voltage behavior, try charging without the HS110, and inspect the EUC-reported voltage after the charger has been connected for one hour after its charging light turns green. If you still see (4.12V/cell), it means your board's voltage measurement is just 'low' (which is ok and not harmful) or possibly that your charger is not adjusted for the correct end-voltage (this is a concern). Comparing the voltage reading to using another known-good charger could help confirm which one is the case. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enaon Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 On 2/17/2021 at 5:00 PM, RagingGrandpa said: If you still see (4.12V/cell), it means your board's voltage measurement is just 'low' The ninebots one c/e/p charge to 4.15 max, the bms is setup this way, and the charger only gives out 62Volts. 4.15 is achieved hours after the charging led gets green, it normally stops at around 4.12. Those are voltmeter voltages, not controller reported. I always considered the ninebot's way the normal way, not "low". I think Kingsong is pushing the limits by taking the batteries to 4.20, it gives not room for starting off home on a donwnslope, and is bad for the battery life. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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