EUC World - Charging control in upcoming 2.4 release

[Seba]

1 hour ago, tyyy said:

any news, regarding the P110 implementation?

I'm now working on Shelly Plug S support. Tapo P110 requires cloud access, which is what I would like to avoid. Shelly provides local API that can be directly accessed, which  doesn't require Internet access, gives better privacy and is more reliable.

[Seba]

On 11/10/2022 at 11:01 AM, Seba said:

I'm now working on Shelly Plug S support. Tapo P110 requires cloud access, which is what I would like to avoid. Shelly provides local API that can be directly accessed, which  doesn't require Internet access, gives better privacy and is more reliable.

I have a good news  Upcoming EUC World 2.30 release will add support for:

• Shelly Plug S (CEE 7/7, for most of European users)
• Shelly Plus Plug S (CEE 7/7, for most of European users)
• Shelly Plus Plug IT (Italian Type L, for Italian users)
• Shelly Plus Plug UK (UK BS 1363, for UK users)
• Shelly Plus Plug US (NEMA, for US users)

I advice to use Shelly Plug Plus devices, but Shelly Plug S works great too. It, however, doesn't support measuring mains voltage, mains current and power factor. While these are not important for charging process, it's handy to know how many Amperes our charger draws from the wall socket.

[Rawnei]

On 1/15/2023 at 3:56 PM, Seba said:

I have a good news  Upcoming EUC World 2.30 release will add support for:

• Shelly Plug S (CEE 7/7, for most of European users)
• Shelly Plus Plug S (CEE 7/7, for most of European users)
• Shelly Plus Plug IT (Italian Type L, for Italian users)
• Shelly Plus Plug UK (UK BS 1363, for UK users)
• Shelly Plus Plug US (NEMA, for US users)

I advice to use Shelly Plug Plus devices, but Shelly Plug S works great too. It, however, doesn't support measuring mains voltage, mains current and power factor. While these are not important for charging process, it's handy to know how many Amperes our charger draws from the wall socket.

Is this implemented now? I have EUC World 2.30.1 but can't seem to scan or connect to my Shelly Plug S.

[fbhb]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

Is this implemented now? I have EUC World 2.30.1 but can't seem to scan or connect to my Shelly Plug S.

It should be working as intended, but there was a glitch in 2.30 that affected the HS110 connection. @Seba fixed that issue with 2.30.1, but maybe hat has now affected the Shelly Plug S. Best to send him an error report directly from the EUC World app. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by fbhb

[Seba]

3 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Is this implemented now? I have EUC World 2.30.1 but can't seem to scan or connect to my Shelly Plug S.

Shelly doesn't support scanning, so you have to enter its IP address in the app settings.

[Rawnei]

18 minutes ago, Seba said:

Shelly doesn't support scanning, so you have to enter its IP address in the app settings.

Yeah I did, what's the indicator that it's working, do you need to be charging, connected to the wheel or something else?

It's a Shelly Plus Plug S to be precise.

Edit: Charging now, wheel powered on and connected to EUC World, no indication of charging control working, Shelly Plug is operational and gives data in the Shelly app, quadruple verified correct IP address in the settings.

Sent a report, don't know if that helps.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Rawnei

[Hansolo]

I have the SHELLY  Plug S, it works well with EUC World 2.30.1

Edited February 6, 2023 by Hansolo

[Seba]

21 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Edit: Charging now, wheel powered on and connected to EUC World, no indication of charging control working, Shelly Plug is operational and gives data in the Shelly app, quadruple verified correct IP address in the settings.

It's important to not have Shelly connected with cloud and also not to use the Shelly app at the same time when using EUC World. Otherwise Shelly cloud/Shelly app and EUC World will interfere with each other, resulting in unexpected behaviour. Also currently EUC World doesn't support password protection for now, so please don't set password on a Shelly device used to control the charger.

[Rawnei]

32 minutes ago, Seba said:

It's important to not have Shelly connected with cloud and also not to use the Shelly app at the same time when using EUC World. Otherwise Shelly cloud/Shelly app and EUC World will interfere with each other, resulting in unexpected behaviour. Also currently EUC World doesn't support password protection for now, so please don't set password on a Shelly device used to control the charger.

I believe Shelly Cloud was interfering, I have disabled it now and will monitor more closely.

[Boogieman]

On 1/15/2023 at 3:56 PM, Seba said:

I have a good news  Upcoming EUC World 2.30 release will add support for:

• Shelly Plug S (CEE 7/7, for most of European users)
• Shelly Plus Plug S (CEE 7/7, for most of European users)
• Shelly Plus Plug IT (Italian Type L, for Italian users)
• Shelly Plus Plug UK (UK BS 1363, for UK users)
• Shelly Plus Plug US (NEMA, for US users)

I advice to use Shelly Plug Plus devices, but Shelly Plug S works great too. It, however, doesn't support measuring mains voltage, mains current and power factor. While these are not important for charging process, it's handy to know how many Amperes our charger draws from the wall socket.

Great news, i have been looking for the hs110 forever.

 

Two questions:

 

1. Will the charging log work with this plug and how can i access the data?

I have never seen a charge log without the plug and guess that this data is from the wheel not the charger (as the charger is a massive energy waster depending on build).

Logging is for me the most useful feature if i somehow can read out battery degradation / balancing (i guess it's hard to tell from mains so muat be wheel dependent more than charge plug dependent?).

Question is regarding Veteran Sherman and Gotway Tesla (v1.2). Is there a table which wheel can extract which data?

 

2. The normal recommendation is to plug charger into wall first, then plug in wheel. I guess it's the same with a smart plug, so using delayed start would not be the best? Rather plug in plug and charger, start charging by activating plug, plug in wheel?

Edited April 19, 2023 by Boogieman

[BlackSheriff84]

@Seba 

Hi

I'm reaching out to seek your support regarding this specific feature. I recently purchased the recommended smartplug and successfully connected it to the EUC World App. While I can manually turn the charging on and off through the app, I'm encountering a couple of issues.

Firstly, when I initiate the charging process through the app, my wheel fails to connect to the app automatically. To overcome this, I have to manually start the charging, then launch the app, which subsequently establishes a connection with my wheel. Afterward, I navigate to the charging control section and "turn it on."

Secondly, I'm experiencing difficulties with the automatic stopping feature for charging. I've tried different options, such as setting it to stop at 80% or to automatically stop charging one hour after reaching 100%. However, in both cases, I find myself having to manually press the stop button in the app to halt the charging process.

I'm hopeful that you can provide me with the necessary assistance to resolve these issues. Thank you for your support.

[RagingGrandpa]

2 hours ago, BlackSheriff84 said:

I'm experiencing difficulties with the automatic stopping feature for charging.

setting it to stop at 80%

This isn't especially robust, because it requires your phone maintain an active bluetooth connection to the EUC. If you walk too far away, the connection is lost.

2 hours ago, BlackSheriff84 said:

automatically stop charging one hour after reaching 100%

This doesn't require the bluetooth connection, but it still requires the app maintain a wifi connection to your smartplug. If your home network isn't perfect, or your phone leaves wifi for whatever reason, it will not work. 
 

EUC World charging control is very useful for troubleshooting a battery pack; but I don't think it's suitable for daily-routine charging.

[BlackSheriff84]

On 6/2/2023 at 1:01 AM, RagingGrandpa said:

This isn't especially robust, because it requires your phone maintain an active bluetooth connection to the EUC. If you walk too far away, the connection is lost.

This doesn't require the bluetooth connection, but it still requires the app maintain a wifi connection to your smartplug. If your home network isn't perfect, or your phone leaves wifi for whatever reason, it will not work. 
 

EUC World charging control is very useful for troubleshooting a battery pack; but I don't think it's suitable for daily-routine charging.

I have a spare phone that I leave beside my wheel for charging to ensure the Bluetooth connection is not lost.

Regarding the 1hr after 100%. After further reading I think it's actually 1hr after power drops below 30w!? which seems low to me as my S22 finishes balancing at 46W and 126.5v

[Chriull]

6 hours ago, BlackSheriff84 said:

which seems low to me as my S22 finishes balancing at 46W and 126.5v

Balancing stops once the cells are balanced. This can go on forever.

Manufacturers recommend charge stop around 50-60mA per (paralleled) cell.

With a ?4p? config something around this 30W seems sound.

However, as the S22 shows single cell voltages one can check the battery state anytime and does not need to "mess around" while charging - just stop once the green charger light comes up or EUCW reaches the 30W. No need to force the cells to take some more charging...

[BlackSheriff84]

23 hours ago, Chriull said:

Balancing stops once the cells are balanced. This can go on forever.

Manufacturers recommend charge stop around 50-60mA per (paralleled) cell.

With a ?4p? config something around this 30W seems sound.

However, as the S22 shows single cell voltages one can check the battery state anytime and does not need to "mess around" while charging - just stop once the green charger light comes up or EUCW reaches the 30W. No need to force the cells to take some more charging...

I'm not "messing around" while charging.

I'm simply hoping to use the smart plug to turn off my wheel once it's  finished charging. As when the light turns green my wheel stays on and slowly looses power. So I usually stay awake to disconnect my wheel from the charger.

Iv not really took note of the volts and watts through the EUCW app before while charging, only through the kingsong app. 

I will run both apps tonight as I know when it should turn off by the voltage readout on the kingsong app and it will be interesting to see what the EUCW reads

 

[Chriull]

34 minutes ago, BlackSheriff84 said:

I'm not "messing around" while charging.

Sorry for my expression.

34 minutes ago, BlackSheriff84 said:

I'm simply hoping to use the smart plug to turn off my wheel once it's  finished charging. As when the light turns green my wheel stays on and slowly looses power. So I usually stay awake to disconnect my wheel from the charger.

Getting charger and wheel turned off by the wifi plug is the interesting part!

Unfortionately some wheels do not turn off once the charger is switched off.

But afai understood this is not your problem? It's EUCW not shutting off the wifi plug?

 

[BlackSheriff84]

On 6/5/2023 at 8:14 PM, Chriull said:

Sorry for my expression.

Getting charger and wheel turned off by the wifi plug is the interesting part!

Unfortionately some wheels do not turn off once the charger is switched off.

But afai understood this is not your problem? It's EUCW not shutting off the wifi plug?

 

No worries, for my charger and wheel it's best to turn off the balancing setting so it turns off at 30W.

Unfortunately I only managed to capture a screenshot at 40W and once it finished...(may have got distracted uploading instagram reels) 🙃 😅 🙂 

when reviewing the kingsong app and the separate cells both battery packs shouw to be fully charged and cells are blue (balanced) when the power is showing 42W 

So my guestimate is that it's still doing roughly 30mins or so of additional balancing with the balancing setting off⁉️

[Chriull]

13 minutes ago, BlackSheriff84 said:

No worries, for my charger and wheel it's best to turn off the balancing setting so it turns off at 30W.

+1!

13 minutes ago, BlackSheriff84 said:

when reviewing the kingsong app and the separate cells both battery packs shouw to be fully charged and cells are blue (balanced) when the power is showing 42W 

So my guestimate is that it's still doing roughly 30mins or so of additional balancing with the balancing setting off⁉️

If cells are balanced they need no further balancing. Only once the app shows unbalanced cells one should try to balance them.

Balancing happens during the whole constant voltage stage (current dropping in your graph). So eventually unbalanced cells had already almost half the charge time for balancing. After turning off the charger some eventually still unbalanced cells get discharged down to the voltage of the other cells.

Once one encounters (too) unbalanced cells after this "resting" time one can just repeat this charge and resting cycle until the battery is balanced. Maybe some small discharge after this resting time.

Doing some 30 min longer charging can help a bit too in such a case - one can test watching the cell voltages.

[RossJ]

I'd like to use the EUCW charging support in Australia. While I already own an HS100, I've found that the HS110 is not possible to buy anywhere. Looking into the Shelly Plus Plug variants, it seems they don't make an Australian version. I could use one of the foreign variants (probably the 'S' model - European) with a pair of plug adapters, but a stack of adapters is not the most reliable way to connect a charger. However, I can more readily purchase the Shelly Plus 1PM (module) to which I can attach a suitable plug/socket and housing. I assume the capabilities and API would be the same as the plug variants.

1. Would the Shelly Plus 1PM work with the current EUCW app? If not, is it possible (with minimal effort) to add it?

2. Is the Shelly Plus Plug S the best alternative option for use in Australia? We use 240V @ 50Hz. I assume there's no other aspect of the plug's specification I need to be concerned with?

[Seba]

3 hours ago, RossJ said:

1. Would the Shelly Plus 1PM work with the current EUCW app? If not, is it possible (with minimal effort) to add it?

Yes. I have tested EUC World with ShellyPlus 2PM, which is nothing more than two channel version of 1PM.

3 hours ago, RossJ said:

2. Is the Shelly Plus Plug S the best alternative option for use in Australia? We use 240V @ 50Hz. I assume there's no other aspect of the plug's specification I need to be concerned with?

In Europe we have nominal voltage of 230V, but every device must work with voltages up to 253V (230 V + 10 %). So as long as the voltage in your wall socket doesn't exceed this value, Shelly should work.

[Chriull]

3 hours ago, RossJ said:

We use 240V @ 50Hz

According to the german wikipedia this changed in 2000:

Power distribution

Since 2000, power distribution in Australia has been carried out in the low-voltage network with a mains voltage of 230 V at a frequency of 50 Hertz and a tolerance of +10% to -6% according to the Standards Australia standard "AS60038-2000 - Standard Voltages". Previously, the voltage was 240 V.

[RossJ]

33 minutes ago, Seba said:

Yes. I have tested EUC World with ShellyPlus 2PM, which is nothing more than two channel version of 1PM.

Thanks Seba. I'll give the Plus xPM a go.

[RossJ]

19 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Since 2000, power distribution in Australia has been carried out in the low-voltage network with a mains voltage of 230 V at a frequency of 50 Hertz and a tolerance of +10% to -6% according to the Standards Australia standard "AS60038-2000 - Standard Voltages". Previously, the voltage was 240 V.

Wow! I'd totally missed that.

[RossJ]

I'm up and running with the Shelly Plus 1PM and EUC World has controlled a charge cycle mostly as expected. I do have a couple of questions about it though...
(my wheel is a standard KS S18 of 2022 vintage)

1. I set the charge level to 100% and balance period to 1h. In spite of this, the charger was powered off moments after charging was complete. Is this to be expected? Perhaps there is a minimum voltage which must be reached to be considered fully charged and thus balancing will be engaged? If so, what is the threshold? Or does the wheel actually report when it's balancing? The charge cycle only reached 82.5V (95%) before charging ended.

2. I have observed a couple of times when I connect the charger that EUC World showed a current of around 0.3 to 0.5A on both the main and detail screens, in spite of the charger indicating charge in progress (red light). I had just assumed that for some reason the charge cycle hadn't actually started, so I disconnected the charger and manually powered on the wheel before reattaching the charger, which appeared to correct the situation. Now that I have access to the charge screen of EUC World, I saw the same thing happen only the charge screen correctly reported -2.5A whilst the home and detail screens reported 0.4A. After a short while (a minute or so I think), the 0.4A changed to -2.5A across the app. This appears to be a display bug of some sort. Is this a known issue? I'm using 2.40.0 on a Pixel 7.

 

[Chriull]

32 minutes ago, RossJ said:

I'm up and running with the Shelly Plus 1PM and EUC World has controlled a charge cycle mostly as expected. I do have a couple of questions about it though...
(my wheel is a standard KS S18 of 2022 vintage)

1. I set the charge level to 100% and balance period to 1h. In spite of this, the charger was powered off moments after charging was complete. Is this to be expected?

Afair EUC World considers charging done once mains power consumption drops below ~30W.

Balance period of one hour means that after this moment the charger is left on for another hour for _additional_ balancing.

32 minutes ago, RossJ said:

Perhaps there is a minimum voltage which must be reached to be considered fully charged and thus balancing will be engaged?

Balancing starts about once constant voltage stage of charging started. Just after the constant current stage. Once the charging current drops below ~50-60mA per paralleled cell the used li ion cells are considered fully charged according to the manufacturers specification.

This is emulated by the shutdown condition of 30W by EUC World.

Your KS S18 for example has a 20s3p configuration. At 84V (maximum voltage) this 30W are something about 350mA charging current. Per paralleled cell this is 350mA/3~110mA. Which would be a bit early to stop charging(*). So your set additional 1h (balancing period) could lead to some xharge stop at the right time (~50-60mA per cell)

32 minutes ago, RossJ said:

The charge cycle only reached 82.5V (95%) before charging ended.

So the wheel's firmware or bms could to have shut off the wheel prematurely?

Was the shelly (charger) still turned on after the wheel stopped charging or did EUC World actually turn off the shelly to stop the charger?

(*) Edit - if one regards chargers ac/dc converter efficiency below 100% and the power consumption of the motherboard the charge current threshold to stop charging should be way below this 110mA per cell and could be "perfect" again?

Edited February 14 by Chriull