Gotway RS

[EMA]

3 hours ago, JirkaMak said:

I scratched a curb (a bit higher one)

i think is the cause becouse rs shell is low compared to msp (1st batch for sure),  the side panel are similar but not equal, but is a cheap part to change

[MultiTricker]

6 hours ago, EMA said:

i have like 1000km and it's fine right now

Glad to hear that, I really got impression that this is a big problem for almost everyone who got RS with no happy ending :-) You can also find many problems with InMotion V11 about hollow bore motor and bearings with first and second batch, following comments "third batch is too fresh we don't know if it works after few hundred kilometers".

MSP wasn't too big difference to my MSX for the money, so I fell for RS. Only other interesting choice is Sherman :-)

Funny thing about last commenters here: me, @DjPanJan and @JirkaMak - we are all from Czech republic, maybe we got faulty batch for our country :-D Mine is also from myewheel.com (and I can agree with their great responsive support!).

[EMA]

only first sample of first batch should have issue, they have changed the bearing after some episode.

usually when they are faulty the broke pretty quick, i think all the broken bearing are under 100km

[StealthPhoenix]

@JirkaMak@MultiTricker ive got an RSHT, with 441 km on it (just did 47 km of it today). im sorry to repeat this, but its not the bearing like everyone has been fooled into believing. maybe someone is trying to collect all of the RS by making them believe it sucks so they sell it at a lower price, maybe most euc riders are just mechnically and electrically deficient, maybe too many sheep in the pool, and yes, some may have actually had true bearing failures after riding in snow and rain without any concern or proper cleaning, until it caught up with them.

i say all this after developing the knocking sound myself about 6-8 km my very first time. i also got worried because i also thought that my bearing is fucked etc. but my AVERAGE BRAIN just could not believe it was the bearing after experiencing and feeling and hearing this knocking sound for myself on my own euc. before i got my euc, yes the videos made me reconsider as well, because if everyone is saying the same thing, then it must be true right? anyway, what happened is that during those first 6-8 km for me, i fell while learning at around 24kmh (im converting these from miles per hour for your benefit). before that i was riding slowly and not falling, just stumbling off and catching the euc with my hand. basically, some sudden shock causes some white PLASTIC and the cheap black ferrite material (some kind of cheap iron) to crack in the stator. and from that moment onwards, you are fucked. this plastic and iron material (it doesnt feel like pure iron, some kind of cheap alloy), is used in the coil assemblies of the stator. [stator (static non-rotating part that holds the pedal hangars). the rotor (the rotating part that holds the tire via the rim, aka only has the back-to-back rare earth magnets lining the inside diameter of the rim)] when it breaks or even cracks, it starts to get lodged in between the magnets (rotor) and the coils (stator). and starts the hit the magnets occasionally and THAT IS WHAT MAKES THE KNOCKING SOUND. sometimes it goes away because the debris manages to find a safe spot after all that bumping around. it is not the cable, it is not some piece of silicone, it is NOT the bearing. ive had this sound on and off until even today and have been riding. i have opened the motor cover, and spun BOTH the bearings freely with one finger, feeling NO resistance whatsoever. as an ADDITIONAL NOTE: if someone opens the bearing seal (which i dont recommend, because that will sacrifice the original rubber seal and then allow dirt and grim to get in much easier), if you do encounter a rust colored lubricant or the translucent crusty style one, neither one is the culprit for this sound. that rust color is not even rust. you can still choose to use some "better" lubricant if you desire at that point, but that is NOT the "cause" of anything. youll just make a decent enough bearing, slightly better. like a skateboarder who swears by out of the box ABEC 7s vs well maintained and lubricated/taken care of ABEC 3s that achieve the same quality.

i realize this seems like a rant haha. but ive opened my own wheel up and seen this debris and cracked plastic and the scratch marks on the INSIDE of the magnets (the side that faces the stator. ive also seen the bearings, spun them freely, werent dirty at all, but i wiped the dust off that did collect between the inner lip of the motor cover and the bearing. worst case scenario, the loss of iron breaking off and plastic, may someday jam my wheel mechnically i guess, and it will also cause the battery to discharge quicker because the coils cant sustain a normal voltage without the proper amount of iron supporting that voltage/current that you request as you ride (when you lean forward). to those just worried about bearing failure, i think its just old inventory that gotway had that are being marketed now as new possibly. because cracking plastic and crumbling iron seem like things that would happen to old products. like car parts.

 

anyway. of course i could be the idiot and everyone else IS right, even though ive seen and experienced with my own eyes. i hope to NOT take away any business thats selling expensive or even reasonable bearings for the RS. but to those that HAVE been suckered into thinking a bearing replacement will fix their troubles, and have gotten those knocking sounds anyway, that should be proof enough. even if gotway or ewheels themself state its a "bearing issue." i know what i know. all that being said, i love riding it. it makes a noise sometimes, sometimes its fully quiet. i even put a seat on it yesterday and can transition at slow speeds. ive been riding 2-3 weeks now.

goodluck.

 

[Planemo]

44 minutes ago, StealthPhoenix said:

 i fell while learning at around 24kmh basically, some sudden shock causes some white PLASTIC and the cheap black ferrite material (some kind of cheap iron) to crack in the stator. and from that moment onwards, you are fucked.  

Or could it be that due to bearing slop, the crash allowed the magnets to hit the stator, causing the plastic and ferrite to crack?

We havent had issues with motor parts becoming dislodged or cracked prior to hollow bore motors.

Unless all the hollow bore wheels in question happen to be running tighter tolerances between magnet and stator than the old wheels or for some reason the specs/quality of the stator has deteriorated, allowing them to get damaged from a simple crash.

[JirkaMak]

12 minutes ago, StealthPhoenix said:

@JirkaMak@MultiTricker ive got an RSHT, with 441 km on it (just did 47 km of it today). im sorry to repeat this, but its not the bearing like everyone has been fooled into believing...

 

Hi StealthPhoenix, thanks for your reply.

You are right. I'm not a pro by any means so I can not really tell if it's the bearing. I totally agree with you about it not being the cable. So anybody experiencing the issue will not resolve it by tidying the cable management.

What I found inside my motor, after going the extra step and opening it, was a scratch damage on a few magnets on the rotor and similar scratches on the stator (where the coils are). I didn't find any debris and I don't recall seeing any cracks on the stator assembly, but I didn't look for it specifically. My bearings, on the other hand, didn't spin freely all way around. Yeah, I did crash the wheel several times. So your idea of moving debris between the rotor and stator is plausible.  I didn't try to open the bearing insulation/cover, but the rim was rusty as hell. I went through a puddle two weeks before opening the motor cover. I keep my wheel clean and store it in a dry place (under my desk, the only place I can use :).

The clearance between the rotor and stator is not that small, though. I'd expect to find the debris. Did you find yours? The knocking in my wheel is not just about the sound, it shakes the wheel significantly and I can clearly feel it though pedals. It seems like you consider your wheel to be safe to ride even with the broken stator, correct?

I'm wondering how the impact stress at the mentioned speed could even cause such crack in the first place. I saw videos of people hitting the ground way harder than that. Do you think it was some sort of resonance induced crack from the vibration, or the sheer power of G-s the stator faced on an impact? I'd expect the stator to break if it would hit the rotor, but that could have happened only if the bearing failed to keep the stator center. So I'm a bit confused about the source of the debris you describe.

But well, I can be wrong at so many levels. I don't know if the bearing replacement can fix the issue. I contacted myewheels.com today and sent them a video of the wheel spinning with the sound clearly audible and I'm waiting for their response. And that's what I'd recommend anybody with a good support.

[JirkaMak]

5 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Or could it be that due to bearing slop, the crash allowed the magnets to hit the stator, causing the plastic and ferrite to crack? ... We havent had issues with motor parts becoming dislodged or cracked prior to hollow bore motors.

Exactly. If the bearing failed, the stator could have hit the rotor and it could have caused the damage described by @StealthPhoenix. But just an impact at not-so-high speed? Hmm. It's hard to accept.

[StealthPhoenix]

5 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Or could it be that due to bearing slop, the crash allowed the magnets to hit the stator, causing the plastic and ferrite to crack?

We havent had issues with motor parts becoming dislodged or cracked prior to hollow bore motors.

Unless all the hollow bore wheels in question happen to be running tighter tolerances between magnet and stator than the old wheels or for some reason the specs/quality of the stator has deteriorated, allowing them to get damaged from a simple crash.

if bearing slop was there to effect such results, shouldnt it have occurred from the first few ROTATIONS of the wheel, even at lesser speeds? i dont think its a matter of tolerances. and thats where i start to assume more than i should: the quality of the stator in my wheel seems subpar to any image of the msx/msp ive seen online. quality of mine referring to the white plastic used in the coils of the stator. so even though its a "new" wheel, i wonder why veteran sherman was made by former gotway employees, why its known as the "gotway killer," why a sudden release of a "new wheel," by gotway when they already just released the "msp ht and hs" and then just a few weeks later came out with this new name of rs ht/hs, and then a few weeks after that changed their company name. its all like a rush job to just compete with the sherman, which couldve made them use old parts (referring again to the subpar quality at least in my wheel despite it being a "new wheel" as compared tot he build quality from what im seeing of the cores in the coils of the msp/msx.  

[StealthPhoenix]

12 minutes ago, JirkaMak said:

Hi StealthPhoenix, thanks for your reply.

You are right. I'm not a pro by any means so I can not really tell if it's the bearing. I totally agree with you about it not being the cable. So anybody experiencing the issue will not resolve it by tidying the cable management.

What I found inside my motor, after going the extra step and opening it, was a scratch damage on a few magnets on the rotor and similar scratches on the stator (where the coils are). I didn't find any debris and I don't recall seeing any cracks on the stator assembly, but I didn't look for it specifically. My bearings, on the other hand, didn't spin freely all way around. Yeah, I did crash the wheel several times. So your idea of moving debris between the rotor and stator is plausible.  I didn't try to open the bearing insulation/cover, but the rim was rusty as hell. I went through a puddle two weeks before opening the motor cover. I keep my wheel clean and store it in a dry place (under my desk, the only place I can use :).

The clearance between the rotor and stator is not that small, though. I'd expect to find the debris. Did you find yours? The knocking in my wheel is not just about the sound, it shakes the wheel significantly and I can clearly feel it though pedals. It seems like you consider your wheel to be safe to ride even with the broken stator, correct?

I'm wondering how the impact stress at the mentioned speed could even cause such crack in the first place. I saw videos of people hitting the ground way harder than that. Do you think it was some sort of resonance induced crack from the vibration, or the sheer power of G-s the stator faced on an impact? I'd expect the stator to break if it would hit the rotor, but that could have happened only if the bearing failed to keep the stator center. So I'm a bit confused about the source of the debris you describe.

But well, I can be wrong at so many levels. I don't know if the bearing replacement can fix the issue. I contacted myewheels.com today and sent them a video of the wheel spinning with the sound clearly audible and I'm waiting for their response. And that's what I'd recommend anybody with a good support.

i appreciate your openness to discussion, as well as your thoughts man. highly irregular evolved behavior haha.

for you, yeah the bearing does sound like a problem. if you remove the motor cover entirely (to know for sure), and spin the bearing (with it seated in the cover) with your index finger, it would spin around freely and with full rotations without any resistive feeling, as long as your finger kept turning it in circles. it is NOT going to be a bearing that you can turn once and expect it to keep spinning. but as long as you spin it using ur finger, you shouldnt feel any binding spots. for me, that would be good enough to test the bearing. the bearing may bind if you only opened the motor cover VERY SLIGHTLY off the rim, just enough to see the coils inside. if the rim was rusty do you mean the motor cover lip by the bearing? or the actual rim that holds the tire? either wouldnt hinder wheel movement when you power it up i believe. i also saw scratches on the magnets for mine, and that is what made me look closely for cracks on the coils and black iron pieces. and that is when i did see cracks and such. everything else looked absolutely clean and fresh for me. the space between the bearing and the motor cover, yeah i do think cleaning that area can help, because if tiny rocks get stuck in that gap, then maybe it could damage things. but i didnt find anything like that in mine. i will try and upload some photos 

[StealthPhoenix]

23 minutes ago, JirkaMak said:

Exactly. If the bearing failed, the stator could have hit the rotor and it could have caused the damage described by @StealthPhoenix. But just an impact at not-so-high speed? Hmm. It's hard to accept.

if the bearing fails to that degree, then the rim (on which the bearing the motor is seated) would also need to bend, as well as as the motor cover. sure there could be some flex to the rim and cover, but to join the gap between the roto and stator, would be enough to notice some warping evidence somewhere (in the bearing via freely turning it by a finger, or running ur finger along the inner diameter of the rim, or running your finger along the inner lip of the motor cover. it would be able to be felt i think.

[StealthPhoenix]

@JirkaMak @Planemo @MultiTricker @DjPanJan

https://ibb.co/4YBMLtx

 - You can see the white plastic that is supposed to encase the small black half cylinder spacer between the coils. The white plastic is supposed to keep the black spacer in place, but u can see sometimes its distorted and that allows some of the half cylinders to rotate and possibly scratch the rotor magnets, which can also be seen as scratched i believe.

Edit:

https://ibb.co/cQSdwKp

- U can see the magnet scratches om this one sorry. If u look under the "3" of the 18 x 3.0 tire at the inside of the rotor magnet, zoom in, ull see it scratched. And the few magnets to the right of it as well.

https://streamable.com/4o0cze

- feeling for any binding or feeling for amy warpage. But everything feels smooth and great. This was before i even cleaned the dust and small sandy particles between the bearing and motor cover that u can see in the video. 

https://streamable.com/70q68y

- same bearing as above. Testing for same thing from diff angle. I did this on both sides for both bearings. 

The only thing i can think of then is not bearing slop, just that those black half cylinders, were out of alignment from being encased by their white plastic and on heavy vibration or even being caught at the right angle, would scrape against the rotor magnets, which would then leave the scratched evidence. 

------

.fin.

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by StealthPhoenix

[JirkaMak]

@StealthPhoenixThank you for the in-depth analysis. You surely made your point here.

I just got a message from my dealer, they passed my RS video to Begode. They also said that they already had a few cases like mine successfully fixed by the bearing swap. I'm even thinking about getting some higher grade bearing myself instead of waiting for Begode to respond and send their replacement. I'm definitely gonna follow your lead and report back with the exchange process and results.

I tried to pull one side of the motor off today and tried your bearing test. I must admit that the bearing doesn't behave suspiciously on it's travel. It's just quite hard to turn, I had to apply considerable force to move it around with slightly greased index finger. Two fingers and alcohol worked. It's definitely not turning easily, which I'd expect from a bearing. Didn't have time to try the other side, though. No signs of new scratches, or debris.

I don't have that much dust and sand collected between the bearing and the housing. But I did use a toothbrush to clear it the first time I opened the wheel. Wanted to get rid of the rust. The clearance between my bearings and the housing looks a bit smaller than on your photo.

I guess I'll find out once I swap the bearings. In any case, thanks for your insight. May help others to deal with the issue.

[Flying W]

So far so good. Finally was got out to some steep off road that even the mcm5 had struggled with and the RSHT had no issue. Even the breaking is great (this is with pads). 

Crossing fingers the "honeymoon" continues for a long time!

[Unipilot69]

I received an RS C30 on Monday as a birthday gift. That was a surprise. This will be my second euc. I bought an mten3 just before Christmas. If I had known I wouldn't have got the mten3. I'm way over the weight capacity of the mten3. It still does fine though. 

I was riding the mten3 the first try. Same with the RS. I guess the riding regular unicycles for 40 years helps. The RS felt like a train compared to the mten3. The build quality of the RS was decent. The wire management was great. I'm going to fix a few minor descrepancies over the next few days. They actually did a great job with sealing wire holes and the "Gotway Glue Monster" showed some restraint. The main board was conformal coated but the daughter board and bluetooth module were not. So far the bearings feel normal. Time will tell. It's very humid and rainy here most of the time. I have a ways to go before I got the off road trails. At 60 pounds it's by far the heaviest unicycle I've ridden. I thought my geared 36" road unicycle was heavy. It weights around 20 pounds.

If I can figure out attaching pictures, I took pictures of both halves of my RS with the outer shells removed.

[StealthPhoenix]

4 hours ago, Unipilot69 said:

I received an RS C30 on Monday as a birthday gift. That was a surprise. This will be my second euc. I bought an mten3 just before Christmas. If I had known I wouldn't have got the mten3. I'm way over the weight capacity of the mten3. It still does fine though. 

I was riding the mten3 the first try. Same with the RS. I guess the riding regular unicycles for 40 years helps. The RS felt like a train compared to the mten3. The build quality of the RS was decent. The wire management was great. I'm going to fix a few minor descrepancies over the next few days. They actually did a great job with sealing wire holes and the "Gotway Glue Monster" showed some restraint. The main board was conformal coated but the daughter board and bluetooth module were not. So far the bearings feel normal. Time will tell. It's very humid and rainy here most of the time. I have a ways to go before I got the off road trails. At 60 pounds it's by far the heaviest unicycle I've ridden. I thought my geared 36" road unicycle was heavy. It weights around 20 pounds.

If I can figure out attaching pictures, I took pictures of both halves of my RS with the outer shells removed.

man i was thinking about getting the mten3 AFTER getting comfortable on my RS, just to do small errands nearby where i dont want to be a spectacle lugging this suitcase around haha. do you think its worth it just for that?

covid got me into this scene. i deleveraged my finances last year, got rid of my car, my motorcycle (too much crime in nyc) started taking the train, then transitioned into the brompton electric folding bicycle (totally worth it btw, and completely eliminated all public transport. ill uber if i need to. less stress, more peace, less sickly folks around me haha..), then got the onewheel pint as a supplement, and realized that i couldnt even make a 7 mile work commute without range anxiety, got rid of that too, and then finally got my RS.

no regrets remain, call me johnny tremain

[StealthPhoenix]

at about 340 miles in, i finally know what causes the knocking sound in the RS. i feel safe believing that all hollow bore motors with the same sound issue are being caused by the same thing. the fix requires finesse and just some labor on your part and there are multiple ways to solve it, and is also vastly cheaper than anything ive seen anyone suggest and do, and you dont need to create anything. just need the basic tools to open the euc up. i had it very severe today and just couldnt take it anymore even as i was pushing it into my house. i fixed and recreated the problem many times just to be sure, and the cause still surprises me. if u need help fixing it, let me know and ill walk you through it. but i will request that you post a video of your problem beforehand. just for the sake of R&D documentation. ive finally fixed mine today, and if it returns, i have a few better solutions, but the cause is now certain without a doubt.

every wolf has a herd of sheep. but the lone wolf seldom knows it.

[JirkaMak]

4 hours ago, StealthPhoenix said:

... every wolf has a herd of sheep. but the lone wolf seldom knows it.

Hi @StealthPhoenix, good to hear you cracked the issue. So please share the reason with the rest of us. I'm one of those waiting to get a new set of bearings and I'd absolutely prefer not change them, if there would be another way. Especially if it would fix the issue all together. 

Here is the R&D post you need.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AotlepZ81kWjxHsHudnbazArESoh?e=MxRIdr

Thanks for sharing.

Edited January 9, 2021 by JirkaMak
Fixed some typos. Added YT link, the OneDrive may not work. ;-)

[mike_bike_kite]

4 hours ago, StealthPhoenix said:

every wolf has a herd of sheep. but the lone wolf seldom knows it.

Isn't there a forum rule about making up your own meaningless quotes?  

Edited January 9, 2021 by mike_bike_kite

[StealthPhoenix]

2 hours ago, JirkaMak said:

Hi @StealthPhoenix, good to hear you cracked the issue. So please share the reason with the rest of us. I'm one of those waiting to get a new set of bearings and I'd absolutely prefer not change them if the would be another way. Especially if it would fix the issue all together. 

Here is the R&D post you need.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AotlepZ81kWjxHsHudnbazArESoh?e=MxRIdr

Thanks for sharing.

sent u a message 

[Augus]

4 hours ago, StealthPhoenix said:

at about 340 miles in, i finally know what causes the knocking sound in the RS. i feel safe believing that all hollow bore motors with the same sound issue are being caused by the same thing. the fix requires finesse and just some labor on your part and there are multiple ways to solve it, and is also vastly cheaper than anything ive seen anyone suggest and do, and you dont need to create anything. just need the basic tools to open the euc up. i had it very severe today and just couldnt take it anymore even as i was pushing it into my house. i fixed and recreated the problem many times just to be sure, and the cause still surprises me. if u need help fixing it, let me know and ill walk you through it. but i will request that you post a video of your problem beforehand. just for the sake of R&D documentation. ive finally fixed mine today, and if it returns, i have a few better solutions, but the cause is now certain without a doubt.

every wolf has a herd of sheep. but the lone wolf seldom knows it.

Hi StealthPhoenix,

I join Jirkamak's request. Could you give an explanation with some image or graphic about how to solve it?

Thanks

[StealthPhoenix]

52 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Isn't there a forum rule about making up your own meaningless quotes?  

@mike_bike_kitei was enjoying my little discovery, while wondering why everyone just believed it was the bearing "because even gotway said so." but even while reading older comments, it felt like a few of the folks online overall (not only here) were just lying and making shit up, and then normal ppl (who just wanna enjoy riding, and not worry so much about "clique-ish" culture), were getting victimized by actually spending more cash on top of this expensive purchase. i felt like the lone wolf in that aspect, as in why would i consistently be rejecting the bearing issue without reason? i didnt have the reason at the time, just intuition and experience. now i know for sure.

but i apologize anyway

[Planemo]

Why all the secrecy? Why do people need to PM you?

You are of course well within your rights to keep things off the general forum, but I dont understand why you would do that, especially after posting in the general forum that you know the answers.

Its a genuine question, I am struggling to understand your motive.

[EMA]

why writing in a public forum if you want to keep your secret...

[StealthPhoenix]

9 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Why all the secrecy? Why do people need to PM you?

You are of course well within your rights to keep things off the general forum, but I dont understand why you would do that, especially after posting in the general forum that you know the answers.

Its a genuine question, I am struggling to understand your motive.

im too tired to defend my solution from naysayers is all. before, it was theoretical discussion, so it was like...lets hear everyone out and see what the general consensus is and why. then we can begin to gauge which ones seem probable. the trouble was that the majority seemed to rely more on the word of a big company or their trusted dealer, over their own sense, actually making things more complicated for themselves and others by propagating the same thing theyd tried (successful by chance or not), or worse - only heard.

its become practical now, and i didnt sleep all night, even now lol i should go to sleep but...im zombified. i just want to see everyone with the problem in one spot, and from their videos, tell them to follow some concise list of instructions that is foolproof, whether in video or written format, and just prove once and for all that sometimes....it is best to think for yourselves and trust your senses. 

i spent like 4-5 hours slaving away at this damn euc and got it nice. i dont have the heart to argue some twat. but i also didnt want anyone about to pull the trigger on a new bearing, or ship their wheel back to wherever etcetc...so i made a rash decision to just prematurely speak on a solution. its worked for me, and i was able to create the problem and solve it over and over again on command. so i have faith in it.i have bits a pieces of a video because i didnt know id be successful after opening and "closing" the euc a few times now in the past few weeks. but its nothing well documented. just...verbal notes to myself basically

[StealthPhoenix]

11 minutes ago, EMA said:

why writing in a public forum if you want to keep your secret...

lol because when info is given too easily, people hear it, but theyre not really listening enough to apply it. especially if you are alone in your telling. but a secret, for some reason....and everyone is like. its not a secret really. it just sounds like bs in the face of something so well documented "all hollow motors have bearing issue." (which i disagree with, unless theres video proof to show the symptoms. after seeing the videos of others who shared their symptoms, i can tell now who may actually have a bearing issue and who has no chance in hell of it being a bearing issue, even though the only current solution as told by even gotway themself apparently, is that "its a bearing issue." smh. man..