Electric Unicycle Wins Over a Big Onewheel Enthusiast

[Jimmy Chang]

5 hours ago, Mike Dobbs said:

I'm a HUGE fan of SlydogStrohs- for sure his vids are part of the reason I got a OW in the first place.  I'll say two things.  He does have some very close calls in his videos- there's more than one nosedive, one very close call and one actual fall in videos I've watched.  The thing is, when you push a Onewheel to, and past it's limits (which Stroh does for sure pretty much every video), you end up in a situation where all but the most skilled riders will end up flat on their assets.  The OW looses the ability to balance you at high speeds, and essentially becomes an electrically propelled indo board (balance board).  If you're balance is on point, and Stroh has demonstrated time and time again that he's in an elite category here, you can keep yourself balanced when the wheel is unable to.  That's how guys like Stroh can ride the way they do and avoid nosedives.  He's got thousands of miles under his belt, and has built up the skill, reflex, and muscle memory to stay on that thing when most of us would be thrown off.

Here's one vid I was able to find quickly where you can see him ride out the dreaded OW "nosedive."  Skip to 5:48 if it doesn't cue up properly for the dive.

 

 

On 6/17/2019 at 11:43 PM, tenofnine said:

You'd probably be fine then at your size and weight. You could still overpower and demand more than the motor can give but it'd be a lot harder.

I don't doubt it's capabilities to make it on a trip like that vid documented. He's also at the south tip of Manhattan to Brooklyn which is only 4-4.5 miles (the EUC you have can go 5x that safely). But I want to know his dimensions (seems skinny and not that tall, the 275lb weight limit is a dangerous overestimation by Onewheel IMO), I want to know if this trip was scouted first since he seems to magically avoid the random potholes/construction/bumps and inconsistencies in NYC roads (he does stick to cycle paths which is smart), and I'd want to know if this was a first try without any bloopers. NYC also is pretty dang flat, a commute like this would probably be impossible in a slightly hilly town let alone a place like San Fran.

Also In weather colder than 60 degrees I don't see a pint getting more than 3 miles safely....40-50 degrees maybe 2-2.5 miles miles safely on flat. I have a Tesla that has a 1020 Wh battery and I'm even a bit reluctant to ride it below 30 % because any incline or sudden upward ramp/bump can cause a large spike in watt usage basically going from 25-30% down to 5-8% remaining (in colder temps going to 0% battery in the readout). So I can't imagine how a tiny 148Wh would do in varied temps, demands, and elevation. I also wonder how it limits your speed at lower battery or lets you know, if it crosses a threshold as it suddenly demands extra power it might cutout and nosedive you more often than not (self balancing PEVs need a lot of power to push you back at their limits since they are basically going faster than you are leaning)

I don't mean to come off negative or skeptical, but I don't like when companies give out BS specs and info on untested and seemingly "magical" devices. 

 

Not really related to the pint...but
I also wonder about SlydogStroh whose videos I'm quite a fan of, but I find it hard to believe him when he says he's never really nosedived or had a fall (or not released some footage that made the Onewheel look bad). That doesn't line up with the plethora of accidents and injuries I see from experienced riders in the community. I guess we'll have to wait and see how the pint shakes down once it's finally in the hands of those that ordered it.

Stroh recently had a bad fall. He tore his ACL and meniscus and is having surgery soon. He will not be on his Onewheel for a while but he is rocking an electric bike these days. I'll miss his Onewheel videos but I look forward to seeing what he plans on doing in the future.

[tenofnine]

4 hours ago, Jimmy Chang said:

 

Stroh recently had a bad fall. He tore his ACL and meniscus and is having surgery soon. He will not be on his Onewheel for a while but he is rocking an electric bike these days. I'll miss his Onewheel videos but I look forward to seeing what he plans on doing in the future.

Aw that is a shame and I'm really sorry to hear that man. SO that just happened? I have to admit it's been a few weeks since I've peeped his channel so I probably missed this news. Hope he has a speedy recovery, I'm going to catch up on some of his newer vids to show some support.

Edited June 19, 2019 by tenofnine

[Mike Dobbs]

7 hours ago, Jimmy Chang said:

 

Stroh recently had a bad fall. He tore his ACL and meniscus and is having surgery soon. He will not be on his Onewheel for a while but he is rocking an electric bike these days. I'll miss his Onewheel videos but I look forward to seeing what he plans on doing in the future.

From what he said it was kind of a freak fall- going less than 10mph, board actually cut out and he just landed weird.  Said he was planning on sending the board back to FM later that same day.  As for what he'll do next, my guess would be more Onewheeling once he's healed up.

[Jerome]

21 hours ago, erk1024 said:

On the forums, you mostly only hear about the accidents. Keep in mind there are *thousands* of OneWheels out there--there are 3000 just in Florida according to my app.

The above says it all. People buy Onewheels over EUCs. If the above is true there are probably more OWs in Florida than eucs is the whole country. All of the pros-cons for the OW are subjective except for the fact that they have too small a battery and motor to be a safe "self-balancing vehicle". Increase the power, battery size and add a better warning system and their sales will continue to trounce euc sales. Scooters have captured the imagination of the general public. E-bikes are beginning to make inroads with those seeking a pev commuting vehicle. OW have captured the imagination of the under 40 enthusiast crowd. ESK8 rider's will always have a niche of followers. Waaaay down the road and bringing up the rear in ridership are EUCs, which is fine by me.

[tenofnine]

I actually totally forgot that I ran into a OW'er yesterday and he had fractured his wrist from a mid speed cut out. As far as I know he's the only other PEV rider aside from me in Dayton.

I think at this point EUCs are leaps and bounds safer than any Onewheel just based on the battery size, warnings, tiltback, motor power, wheel size, not having to rely on a pressure switch,  not having a fulcrum that multiplies the strain on the balancing motor, etc. Still anything self balancing that can go above 10 mph is dangerous so in the macro view an EUC is probably only marginally safer than a OW.

Scooters and e-bikes I think will always be king since they can be used when the battery runs out and they can't dump the rider.

 

I will say the one thing I really respect about the EUC community is that they don't hide anything. Problems, failures, and falls are all documented or recorded and shared here and everywhere else. I'm sure it happens but I don't see anyone so prideful about these devices that they lie or cover up the negatives about them. The OW community seems to be split down the middle; with one side being an open book while the other side hides a lot or is in denial (in a misguided attempt to not scare people away from buying them)

[Mono]

On 6/18/2019 at 11:46 PM, tenofnine said:

I would agree with this as well but I take it a step further, maybe to a point people might not agree with. If you are constrained to walking speed around pedestrians my opinion is that you shouldn't be riding at all, you should be walking as well since they have right of way, it's good practice, and in most places it's the law.

I always give pedestrians right of way on the sidewalk. If necessary I crawl a minute or whatever time it needs behind or in between them. I also stop if a group approaches in front and doesn't open space between them and I have no problem with that either,  as I consider the space to be theirs. Sometimes I found the skateboard push to be a useful technique to navigate denser crowds.

[photorph]

 

I just posted my updated comparison.  You can read all the details there, but between onewheel and EUC I can sum it up below:

I'll take the onewheel if I'm going less than 18 miles, will be doing a lot of stop/go and riding around pedestrians, won't have a need to go more than 17-18 mph, and am not doing intense trails.  For everything else I'll grab the EUC.

Edited June 22, 2019 by photorph

[Jimmy Chang]

2 hours ago, photorph said:

 

I just posted my updated comparison.  You can read all the details there, but between onewheel and EUC I can sum it up below:

I'll take the onewheel if I'm going less than 18 miles, will be doing a lot of stop/go and riding around pedestrians, won't have a need to go more than 17-18 mph, and am not doing intense trails.  For everything else I'll grab the EUC.

Great review! Much appreciated. For me, the Onewheel is more fun in certain ways but also more dangerous. I had several pretty bad falls my first 200 miles on the Onewheel. With my EUC, 200 miles in and no significant injuries to date. The EUC is more practical and once you get the hang of it, the EUC feels more safe to me.

3 hours ago, Mono said:

I always give pedestrians right of way on the sidewalk. If necessary I crawl a minute or whatever time it needs behind or in between them. I also stop if a group approaches in front and doesn't open space between them and I have no problem with that either,  as I consider the space to be theirs. Sometimes I found the skateboard push to be a useful technique to navigate denser crowds.

The OW is great for going slow. The EUC is harder for me to go slow and I have yet to master idling or pendulum skills on my euc. @Flyboy10 can vouch for that. I rode with him on some crowded beach sidewalks and found it challenging.

On 6/19/2019 at 10:30 AM, tenofnine said:

I actually totally forgot that I ran into a OW'er yesterday and he had fractured his wrist from a mid speed cut out. As far as I know he's the only other PEV rider aside from me in Dayton.

I think at this point EUCs are leaps and bounds safer than any Onewheel just based on the battery size, warnings, tiltback, motor power, wheel size, not having to rely on a pressure switch,  not having a fulcrum that multiplies the strain on the balancing motor, etc. Still anything self balancing that can go above 10 mph is dangerous so in the macro view an EUC is probably only marginally safer than a OW.

Scooters and e-bikes I think will always be king since they can be used when the battery runs out and they can't dump the rider.

I will say the one thing I really respect about the EUC community is that they don't hide anything. Problems, failures, and falls are all documented or recorded and shared here and everywhere else. I'm sure it happens but I don't see anyone so prideful about these devices that they lie or cover up the negatives about them. The OW community seems to be split down the middle; with one side being an open book while the other side hides a lot or is in denial (in a misguided attempt to not scare people away from buying them)

My son just had a pretty bad OW injury. Both of us ride very conservatively yet it still happened. Onewheels are dangerous. No doubt about it. I can't think of any other device that results in more injuries per mile. Can anyone else?

On 6/19/2019 at 7:52 AM, Mike Dobbs said:

From what he said it was kind of a freak fall- going less than 10mph, board actually cut out and he just landed weird.  Said he was planning on sending the board back to FM later that same day.  As for what he'll do next, my guess would be more Onewheeling once he's healed up.

With the Onewheel, it's not "if" you fall, it's "when" you fall...

[Lillian]

11 hours ago, photorph said:

 

I just posted my updated comparison.  You can read all the details there, but between onewheel and EUC I can sum it up below:

I'll take the onewheel if I'm going less than 18 miles, will be doing a lot of stop/go and riding around pedestrians, won't have a need to go more than 17-18 mph, and am not doing intense trails.  For everything else I'll grab the EUC.

This is Lillian from Instagram. Thanks for the response and willingness to answer questions. 

[Lillian]

12 hours ago, Mono said:

I always give pedestrians right of way on the sidewalk. If necessary I crawl a minute or whatever time it needs behind or in between them. I also stop if a group approaches in front and doesn't open space between them and I have no problem with that either,  as I consider the space to be theirs. Sometimes I found the skateboard push to be a useful technique to navigate denser crowds.

Same. If on the sidewalk I ride slow and yield to or stop and walk around the elderly, disabled, parents with strollers, small kids and dogs. That may seem like a lot but small kids and dogs can dart out at any time and many dogs go nuts barking at PEVs (kinda funny though). As for the others, I just don't want to chance anything going wrong with the wheel around those groups. I have protection gear but they don't.

So why ride on the sidewalk at all? Where I ride, there are few people and at times none for several blocks. I also am not yet comfortable street riding in NYC. 

[RooEUC]

I know I'm late to this thread but I wanted to welcome Jimmy to the EUC community.  I have been watching your OW vids for about 6 months - Slydog's too.  And I enjoy them.  It's great to see you try out the EUC life.  I rode electric skateboards for about a decade, from the early days when they were lead acid powered, heavy beasts that broke down every few months, to later lithium powered sleek machines.  I worked with one of the leading electric skateboard brands for a few years.  I was there when the first carbon fibre boards were being developed with batteries built into the decks - such exciting times. Then I discovered the joy of self balancing vehicles.

 And yet oddly, the One Wheel never appealed to me at all.  Only when I found your vids and Sly's vids last year did I begin to see them as something that might actually be a lot of fun and something that might give me a more realistic 'snowboard on land' experience than the electric longboards.  Before seeing those vids I thought One Wheels were kinda silly and didn't realise they had such a dedicated following.  I think I just didn't understand the concept properly and so I ignored them.  Now I would consider buying one some day if they refine them a bit and maybe make them a bit lighter and more compact.  Like a Pint with more power and range.

However, I am seeing them cut out more often than EUCs and that makes me nervous (as if I wasn't nervous enough doing 30kph on an EUC already).  Maybe it's just my perception but I feel like I have seen a lot more over-lean cut-outs on the OWs than on the EUCs.  In my mind, mechanically speaking it makes sense as with feet out that far from the motor's axis of rotation there is more leverage, so the motor has to work a lot harder to keep you up when you put some serious weight on the edge of the board.  On an EUC you're directly above the axis of rotation.

I absolutely love the feeling of riding my EUC - when I carve, it feels a bit like skiing without effort.  But when I watch you and Sly carving around I feel like that would feel even more fun - like snowboarding (which I find a lot more fun than skiing). Also, I imagine it feels a bit like riding a hoverboard ('Back to the future' style) and may fulfil my fantasy of that. 

I haven't read the whole thread but I imagine you got a few "EUCs are better than OneWheels" comments, which on an EUC forum is to be expected.  You know, like the iPhone versus Android thing.  I am thinking personally, having one of each would be the ideal setup.  EUCs for range, portability, easier to physically carry or trolley around in places where we can't ride them) and perhaps a bit less likely to cut out.  Then the One Wheel for a greater thrill of riding (for those who like snowboarding and longboarding).

I'm sorry to know that Sly hurt himself.  I fear the same thing happening to me some day.  The way he rides through busy traffic is a thrill to watch but I worry for him and fear he'll get some permanent injuries or worse.  It's not so much his skill I worry about (as he is good at this!) but the technology cutting out and getting him killed.  He takes a lot of risks out on the road with busses and cars all around him.  I think at his age he doesn't have the wisdom to see how dangerous that is on a self balancing device that can cut out without warning and throw him under a moving SUV.  When I was his age I was popping wheelies on superbikes, racing dirtbikes and landing 12 foot power kiting jumps.  But I learned that bones can break and some of them can hurt for the rest of your life.  When I think of all the risks I took when I was in my early 20s it's almost a fluke that I'm still alive and able to walk.  Now I take much fewer risks.  I have been saying on this forum since 2017 that we need better failsafe technology in these machines so we can start to (almost) rule out the possibility of software bugs or electrical failures ending our lives without warning.

Edited June 23, 2019 by RooMiniPro

[photorph]

On 6/22/2019 at 9:30 AM, Lillian said:

This is Lillian from Instagram. Thanks for the response and willingness to answer questions. 

You're welcome!  Enjoy that Pint

[LTQFT]

On 4/6/2019 at 3:51 AM, tenofnine said:

Skiing on land might be a close analog, but I still feel it's so much more different than just that. Saying it's like you are riding on a blade seems just as apt a metaphor. (Also skiing isn't seen as cool where snowboarding is...)

 

What I tell people is that it's like riding on the front row of one of those standing roller coasters, but you control it. After a week or 2 it feels like it starts reading your mind and you don't even think about having to control it.

I think the EUC has the same learning curve as learning to ride a bike, but it has a much higher ceiling for mastering it's movement, tricks, and skills. Problem is people don't remember learning to ride a bike since they were kids, but you take an adult that hasn't learned to ride a bike yet and ask them to learn both I think it will take the same amount of time. It's definitely FAR FAR far easier to learn than an actual unicycle.

I think the OW is more of an overpriced toy, and if you want to use it in a serious capacity you need to hack it, add stuff to it, or modify it. EUCs for a much cheaper price have utility right out of the box even with the lower end models. They can be toys, but they have the specs to take on pretty much any  serious task or terrain.

The general populace has a bad track record of picking the path of least resistance,  usually picking the worst fads and tech that are clearly inferior but look more accessible (or *insert celebrity/influencer* used it so they will too). Hoverboards for instance are one of the dumbest pieces of tech to have spread....and they stain it's left has almost ruined PEVs legitimacy.  I think EUCs are clearly one of the best forms of personal transport, but they won't catch on since they actually require more than 2 seconds of attention span. Meanwhile you get every idiot on an e-scooter breaking all the laws and acting like morons ruining the chances for all PEV usage, yay!



 

I'm an OWer reading these with great fascination...... I almost went the monocycle way, but ended up with OW.  Still might end up with a monocycle.  But I have one thought to add to the "skiing" analogy for EUCs (vs "snowboarding" for OWs):  TREKKING POLES.  Back when (decades ago) when I was rollerblading on streets with cracks and even construction debris, using my ski poles let me "cross country ski" on pavement, and made it so safe I stopped wearing elbow/wrist/knee guards.  But once advanced in skill, it also let me do a number tricks, otherwise quite difficult given the crappy road surface.  So do you think these spring trekking poles could be used with monocycles (at lower speed of course) for faster learning curve and more fun for advanced riders?  This could have great benefits for those who want to go trail riding....... I tried the trekking pole idea on OW but it just can't work because of the side stance.

[Marty Backe]

48 minutes ago, LTQFT said:

I'm an OWer reading these with great fascination...... I almost went the monocycle way, but ended up with OW.  Still might end up with a monocycle.  But I have one thought to add to the "skiing" analogy for EUCs (vs "snowboarding" for OWs):  TREKKING POLES.  Back when (decades ago) when I was rollerblading on streets with cracks and even construction debris, using my ski poles let me "cross country ski" on pavement, and made it so safe I stopped wearing elbow/wrist/knee guards.  But once advanced in skill, it also let me do a number tricks, otherwise quite difficult given the crappy road surface.  So do you think these spring trekking poles could be used with monocycles (at lower speed of course) for faster learning curve and more fun for advanced riders?  This could have great benefits for those who want to go trail riding....... I tried the trekking pole idea on OW but it just can't work because of the side stance.

I think the poles probably work with rollerblading because your legs/feet are free to move about. On a monocycle (we call them Electric Unicycles, or EUCs) our feet are essentially tied to the pedals so I can't see them being of any use and most likely would be a great hindrance. Unlike rollerblading or even OneWheels, the diameter of our EUCs is so large be comparison, the cracks, potholes, etc. do not affect our ability to ride.

[Mono]

On 9/9/2019 at 11:36 PM, LTQFT said:

So do you think these spring trekking poles could be used with monocycles (at lower speed of course) for faster learning curve and more fun for advanced riders?

I haven't seen anybody trying these yet, but I can well imagine that this works to support balance and do some more extreme maneuvers. I was surprised when I was trollying a second wheel while riding that it becomes actually easier and not harder to ride. I have also seen a vid of a beginner using a broomstick to support staying on the wheel. Personally I probably won't use them also because they would make my street footprint even wider and are impractical to carry around.

In contrast to country skiing (not sure for skating on pavement), one doesn't really need the trekking poles to go faster.

On 9/10/2019 at 12:29 AM, Marty Backe said:

On a monocycle (we call them Electric Unicycles, or EUCs) our feet are essentially tied to the pedals so I can't see them being of any use and most likely would be a great hindrance.

How is that different from monoskiing? AFAICS trekking poles should be particularly useful for riders who feel tied to the pedals. An alternative is to briefly dip a foot down on the ground to regain balance or do special maneuvers (also at lower speed). I use foot dips this way and envisage this technique to become second nature over time.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Mono

[erk1024]

3 hours ago, LTQFT said:

TREKKING POLES.

My only concern about using poles is that a beginner could impale themselves on one. Maybe they could be used for side to side balance while learning?

[Dzlchef]

I grew up skiing both downhill and cross country and would suggest not using the poles while riding an EUC. It is an amazing sensation to carve on the EUC and you can really lean your body when you’ve become skilled enough.  The poles would hinder more than help and might impale you.  In skiing, poles help with positioning while going into turns downhill, but you can carve hard going uphill on an EUC.  If you try to do pole plants going uphill, you’ll very much regret the consequences.

[Michael Vu]

On 9/9/2019 at 4:36 PM, LTQFT said:

I'm an OWer reading these with great fascination...... I almost went the monocycle way, but ended up with OW.  Still might end up with a monocycle.  But I have one thought to add to the "skiing" analogy for EUCs (vs "snowboarding" for OWs):  TREKKING POLES.  Back when (decades ago) when I was rollerblading on streets with cracks and even construction debris, using my ski poles let me "cross country ski" on pavement, and made it so safe I stopped wearing elbow/wrist/knee guards.  But once advanced in skill, it also let me do a number tricks, otherwise quite difficult given the crappy road surface.  So do you think these spring trekking poles could be used with monocycles (at lower speed of course) for faster learning curve and more fun for advanced riders?  This could have great benefits for those who want to go trail riding....... I tried the trekking pole idea on OW but it just can't work because of the side stance.

One guy I'm teaching now is using golf clubs upside down and he says it has helped him get up and running.

[LanghamP]

On 6/22/2019 at 8:31 PM, RooMiniPro said:

  I am thinking personally, having one of each would be the ideal setup.  EUCs for range, portability, easier to physically carry or trolley around in places where we can't ride them) and perhaps a bit less likely to cut out.  Then the One Wheel for a greater thrill of riding (for those who like snowboarding and longboarding).

I think most EUC riders consider the OW to be a weaker EUC, but the converse is not necessarily true. Because mounting is unique to the EUC and very difficult, OW riders can't automatically ride an EUC while EUC riders can automatically ride OWs.

From having a few rides with OW enthusiasts, why bother riding with them? Too slow, with too short of a range. This certainly doesn't mean the OW is a bad form factor, only that I'm waiting for the OW done right from Gotway/KS. 

[meepmeepmayer]

11 hours ago, LanghamP said:

This certainly doesn't mean the OW is a bad form factor, only that I'm waiting for the OW done right from Gotway/KS. 

You're not the only one! They have all the components to print money if they just decide to do it. Baffling this hasn't happened yet. Oh well, one has to be immune to incomprehensible Chinese EUC manufacturer decisions unless you want to go crazy

[LanghamP]

43 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

You're not the only one! They have all the components to print money if they just decide to do it. Baffling this hasn't happened yet. Oh well, one has to be immune to incomprehensible Chinese EUC manufacturer decisions unless you want to go crazy

There was a FutureMotion video whereby the guy with the beard mentioned they (FM) were very vigilant of patent transgressions. I took that to mean FM was eliminating competitors who used the same form factor as the OW.

[Blicky Te⚡️la]

On 3/28/2019 at 5:54 PM, Girth Brooks said:

Fucking dead laughing thinking about how anyone could assume a OneWheel is better than an EUC in any fashion given the specs of the top tier versions of both. To each their own I guess. Hahahah!!

Well the “cool” factor is pretty high for OW...especially given the level of customization. Their aftermarket is robust!

There is an active thread here about that very topic...how to move EUC forward on design and customization. 

[Biped Phil]

10 hours ago, LanghamP said:

There was a FutureMotion video whereby the guy with the beard mentioned they (FM) were very vigilant of patent transgressions. ...

So was Segway!  And look where it got them!

[M640x]

I started on a Onewheel V1 and currently have a Pint.  In my opinion if you're considering adding a OW to your stable get the Pint.  The Pint compares in the OW arena like the mten3 in the EUC arena in that it's much more sporty of a ride.  Same with range.  Less commute and more shorter ride fun.

I got pulled into the EUC world after going to Duf's channel to check out Onewheel content.

In a typical day I'll hop on the Z10, then my Pint, followed up by my mten3.  The KS14S gets the least amount of attention lately.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Senior Coffee

[M640x]

On 9/13/2019 at 6:41 AM, meepmeepmayer said:

You're not the only one! They have all the components to print money if they just decide to do it. Baffling this hasn't happened yet. Oh well, one has to be immune to incomprehensible Chinese EUC manufacturer decisions unless you want to go crazy

I'd like to see Future Motion come out with their own EUC.