Electric Unicycle Wins Over a Big Onewheel Enthusiast

[Marty Backe]

52 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

It's ridiculous they haven't gone to a much bigger battery. Is there room to fit a doubled battery?

I just rode with Onewheelers yesterday afternoon, in the mountains. We had a great time. One of the guys had an extra battery pack that sat above the wheel and gave him much more range.

Apparently Future Motion goes out of their way (firmware mods, etc) to prevent people from adding battery capacity to their wheels. So there's a Hacking Community out there that figures out how to work around the limitations.

[edwin_rm]

On 3/29/2019 at 12:23 AM, Jimmy Chang said:

You're referring to this right? Only on a more refined and mass produced scale...

 

Where can I find instructions for the Mten3-to-OneWheel mod? (I'm interested)

Or even better, I'd just buy the add-on.

[Jason McNeil]

5 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The Onewheel battery type can be taken on planes, I believe, while standard Li-ion batteries are a big no-no.

Airlines have the discretion to reject battery powered transportation equipment. As I understand it, the original Onewheel 'Plus' was only 130Wh, met the sub 160Wh rule, while the XR most certainly cannot legally be taken aboard commercially flights.

An airline's understandable position is one of disproportionate risk: they have a $100m aircraft, with 250 people, & even a 0.00001% probability of some sort of a shoddily made battery contact between cells could case a vent, or worse, is it worth it? In another post,  @esaj calculated that a 400Wh pack is the equivalent energy of 344g of TNT. 

 

https://oneradwheel.com/can-i-take-a-onewheel-plus-xr-on-an-airplane/

So in conclusion, NO you are not able to take the Onewheel Plus XR on airlines because the battery is greater than the limits set by the FAA of 101-160 watt hours.

https://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/small-lithium-battery-powered-vehicles.pdf

"Operator Restrictions The following operators (airlines) have implemented a total prohibition on the carriage of balance wheels, hoverboards and other self-balancing vehicles in passenger baggage. This list is current as at 13 January 2016"

Edited March 31, 2019 by Jason McNeil

[Jerome]

48 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

  4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

It's puzzling why they dont do this. One would think a 25mph 30-50mile Onewheel would fly off the shelves, even if they sell it at their crazy price level (compared to what you get in a EUC for the same money).

I don't think they are interested in competing with eucs and scooters for the powerful long range commuting consumer or power hungry enthusiast. They are USA firm and law suits are waiting in the wings. They wanted to create a new kind of "fun market) and they have been successful. You don't put out a product that looks DYI and cost $1500 with "PINT's" performance specifications and expect to be picked up by Wal Mart.. They have come out with the PINT which they hope will attract new disciples. I predict their next step will not be a faster model with more range, but safety improvements to the XR. I see the claimed top speed being made safely actual maximum speed. I see a better warning/tilt-back system before nosedives. They may move to a more powerful motor and battery but it will be to achieve the above mentioned goals and not to be faster or have more range. 

They are following the Boosted Board-Apple model-designer clothes model. You build up a brand not based on being the best but by being the "Brand". Future Motion wants to protect their BRAND image and is not driven by short term sales potential. Speedyfeet has publicly stated they would like to check out the OW. I suspect Jason has made inquiries. FM instead sells direct or through SKI/Snow board shops. That says a lot. I predict in the near to intermediate future the only changes you will see is the PINT's price drop maybe $100, the XR's price drop $100-200 and an XR deluxe emerged with safe 19 mph speed and euc level warning and safety features and a better PINT like appearance.  

When you tie you business models to the whims of the enthusiast its a slippery slope to oblivion. We don't see much Gotway/INMotion/King Song fanboy banter anymore. That's because "enthusiast" are driven by performance specification above all else. The Only question that remains is will the Chinese/Koreans go after OW. If they do  victory based on superior product/performance will not be assured, I use to ride to Jacksonville, Fl every March during "Bike Week" and "passed"
dozens of Harleys along the way on my maxi-Honda scooter. They would be annoyed BUT I was on a "Jap Bike" and they were on a Harley.  This is what Future Motion hopes to accomplish. 

[Jimmy Chang]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

I just rode with Onewheelers yesterday afternoon, in the mountains. We had a great time. One of the guys had an extra battery pack that sat above the wheel and gave him much more range.

Apparently Future Motion goes out of their way (firmware mods, etc) to prevent people from adding battery capacity to their wheels. So there's a Hacking Community out there that figures out how to work around the limitations.

Yeah, I've done reviews and videos on the major range extending mods. But with new updates, FM puts up barriers to prevent those mods. I bet the Pint is going to be pretty locked up. But there is a community passionate about hacking locked up things and making them better.

[Jimmy Chang]

1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said:

Airlines have the discretion to reject battery powered transportation equipment. As I understand it, the original Onewheel 'Plus' was only 130Wh, met the sub 160Wh rule, while the XR most certainly cannot legally be taken aboard commercially flights.

An airline's understandable position is one of disproportionate risk: they have a $100m aircraft, with 250 people, & even a 0.00001% probability of some sort of a shoddily made battery contact between cells could case a vent, or worse, is it worth it? In another post,  @esaj calculated that a 400Wh pack is the equivalent energy of 344g of TNT. 

https://oneradwheel.com/can-i-take-a-onewheel-plus-xr-on-an-airplane/

So in conclusion, NO you are not able to take the Onewheel Plus XR on airlines because the battery is greater than the limits set by the FAA of 101-160 watt hours.

https://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/small-lithium-battery-powered-vehicles.pdf

"Operator Restrictions The following operators (airlines) have implemented a total prohibition on the carriage of balance wheels, hoverboards and other self-balancing vehicles in passenger baggage. This list is current as at 13 January 2016"

This is correct. The XR is a big no no on airlines. Thanks for sharing my blog post by the way!

[Marty Backe]

41 minutes ago, Jimmy Chang said:

Yeah, I've done reviews and videos on the major range extending mods. But with new updates, FM puts up barriers to prevent those mods. I bet the Pint is going to be pretty locked up. But there is a community passionate about hacking locked up things and making them better.

One of the guys I rode with yesterday (the Onewheel below, with the fur over the wheel), had a battery mod on his which doubled his range. I guess it's possible, but takes a lot of work. Too bad Future Motion is such a dick about this.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Marty Backe

[Mmhmmm]

On March 30, 2019 at 7:38 AM, meepmeepmayer said:

I always heard the Onewheel randomly dies when it's getting so much as sprinkled a little . Maybe that's just part of the usual random switching-off and not water related

There is no random switching-off, other than very rare electromechanical failure which any PEV may have. The idea you are perpetuating is a bit of mis-information created by riders who are confused by the sudden faceplant and/or unwilling to admit over-powering the board's ability to keep them upright.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Mmhmmm

[erk1024]

There are a couple products now that put rollers on the front of the OneWheel (SynergyWiz and Land-Surf fangs). Could help if somebody is worried about nose-down's. At least the board shouldn't go instantly to zero speed.

[Marty Backe]

24 minutes ago, Mmhmmm said:

There is no random switching-off, other than very rare mechanical failure which any PEV may have. The idea you are perpetuating is a bit of mis-information created by riders who are confused by the sudden faceplant and/or unwilling to admit over-powering the board's ability to keep them upright.

When I rode with a group of Onewheelers, when it was raining a tiny bit, they were all very concerned about the wet pavement, apparently due to the well known failures from water ingress into the control board area.

[Mmhmmm]

9 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

When I rode with a group of Onewheelers, when it was raining a tiny bit, they were all very concerned about the wet pavement, apparently due to the well known failures from water ingress into the control board area.

Yes, apparently the XR is less tolerant of water than the earlier models. It generally takes a good heavy wetting to chance affecting anything, but it can't hurt to be cautious.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Mmhmmm

[tenofnine]

38 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

When I rode with a group of Onewheelers, when it was raining a tiny bit, they were all very concerned about the wet pavement, apparently due to the well known failures from water ingress into the control board area.

Yea I remember watching the "Adam Savage visits OneWheel and builds one" video and seeing them assemble one....I was think the whole time "How is this even water proof?". Only the boards have a minimal waterproofing treatment, but there aren't actual barriers or anything to impede water from invading components. EUCs are kind of similar but the way everything is arranged allows much higher water clearance and gravity wicks the water away from electronics.

I think if you made it as waterproof as most EUCs it might overheat....that unfortunately is the only thing keeping all these PEVs from being actually waterproof rated. You have to have some airflow of course, and it only gets worse the more powerful your wheel gets.

[Mmhmmm]

4 minutes ago, tenofnine said:

Yea I remember watching the "Adam Savage visits OneWheel and builds one" video and seeing them assemble one....I was think the whole time "How is this even water proof?". Only the boards have a minimal waterproofing treatment, but there aren't actual barriers or anything to impede water from invading components. EUCs are kind of similar but the way everything is arranged allows much higher water clearance and gravity wicks the water away from electronics.

I think if you made it as waterproof as most EUCs it might overheat....that unfortunately is the only thing keeping all these PEVs from being actually waterproof rated. You have to have some airflow of course, and it only gets worse the more powerful your wheel gets.

There is an aftermarket kit that makes an apparently good claim to effectively waterproof Onewheels. I'm sure that they run a bit warmer..

[meepmeepmayer]

8 hours ago, Mmhmmm said:

There is no random switching-off, other than very rare electromechanical failure which any PEV may have. The idea you are perpetuating is a bit of mis-information created by riders who are confused by the sudden faceplant and/or unwilling to admit over-powering the board's ability to keep them upright.

I got the impression that it's not only people overpowering the tiltback (rockback... whatever they call it) at top speed, but also overpowering the device simply because the thing is too weak (mainly due to the limited battery), no warning. Just like the shitty early EUCs (or even a V8 on a bad day). You're right that this is not exactly random switching off/hardware failure, but it may be effectively for the riders, so I meant "random" as "unpredictable". And I'm aware of the usual morons not knowing what "self-balancing" entails, but it doesn't seem to be just that.

Together with the lack of proper warnings (even the rockback can't be as pronounced or strong due to geometry, no beeps, no nothing else) and their 19mph top speed marketing, I'm not going to absolve Futuremotion of responsibility.

In the end, they're just selling a self-balancing vehicle that is unsafe because it's simply too weak. That's my summary. This was barely acceptable with early EUCs when there was no better tech/experience, but today? Any EUC manufacturer who would release a tiny battery model like this in earnest would rightfully be torn to pieces. People here already justify 6p 1600Wh batteries over 4p 1000Wh ones with the added safety.

That's my impressions, actual Onewheelers will know better

[Mmhmmm]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I got the impression that it's not only people overpowering the tiltback (rockback... whatever they call it) at top speed, but also overpowering the device simply because the thing is too weak (mainly due to the limited battery), no warning. Just like the shitty early EUCs (or even a V8 on a bad day). You're right that this is not exactly random switching off/hardware failure, but it may be effectively for the riders, so I meant "random" as "unpredictable". And I'm aware of the usual morons not knowing what "self-balancing" entails, but it doesn't seem to be just that.

Together with the lack of proper warnings (even the rockback can't be as pronounced or strong due to geometry, no beeps, no nothing else) and their 19mph top speed marketing, I'm not going to absolve Futuremotion of responsibility.

In the end, they're just selling a self-balancing vehicle that is unsafe because it's simply too weak. That's my summary. This was barely acceptable with early EUCs when there was no better tech/experience, but today? Any EUC manufacturer who would release a tiny battery model like this in earnest would rightfully be torn to pieces. People here already justify 6p 1600Wh batteries over 4p 1000Wh ones with the added safety.

That's my impressions, actual Onewheelers will know better

The leverage created by the Onewheel geometry makes it pretty easy to overlean and slam down one end, but the stance also makes it easier to save an overlean once the rider is well-trained. The battery capacity vs. weight and size compromise is a choice that certainly has pros and cons, but also with experience all of these factors become innate. Things get very predictable with enough use, if the rider has aptitude for the sport and the right kind of common sense.

They call it tiltback, as well, and it is possible to overpower the motor before tiltback can respond. Sometimes the tiltback is also hard to recognize. An audible warning would make sense, so that riders can learn quicker what the limits of the machine are.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Mmhmmm said:

The leverage created by the Onewheel geometry makes it pretty easy to overlean and slam down one end, but the stance also makes it easier to save an overlean once the rider is well-trained. The battery capacity vs. weight and size compromise is a choice that certainly has pros and cons, but also with experience all of these factors become innate. Things get very predictable with enough use, if the rider has aptitude for the sport and the right kind of common sense.

They call it tiltback, as well, and it is possible to overpower the motor before tiltback can respond. Sometimes the tiltback is also hard to recognize. An audible warning would make sense, so that riders can learn quicker what the limits of the machine are.

When I was riding with the Onewheeler's, at the very beginning we were going downhill and my Tesla tilted-back on me, making me stop. Because of overcharging from the regenerative breaking (I started with a 100-percent charged battery). They told me that the Onewheel shuts down instead and slams your butt into the ground 

[Mmhmmm]

25 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

When I was riding with the Onewheeler's, at the very beginning we were going downhill and my Tesla tilted-back on me, making me stop. Because of overcharging from the regenerative breaking (I started with a 100-percent charged battery). They told me that the Onewheel shuts down instead and slams your butt into the ground 

Yes, if you are using the app, it will warn you, otherwise the user has to be aware of their charge level if they start out on a hill..

[tessa25]

27 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

When I was riding with the Onewheeler's, at the very beginning we were going downhill and my Tesla tilted-back on me, making me stop. Because of overcharging from the regenerative breaking (I started with a 100-percent charged battery). They told me that the Onewheel shuts down instead and slams your butt into the ground 

Do Inmotion and King Song wheels behave the same? For some reason I though overcharging on a downhill got you dumped with EUCs as well.

[meepmeepmayer]

4 minutes ago, tessa25 said:

Do Inmotion and King Song wheels behave the same? For some reason I though overcharging on a downhill got you dumped with EUCs as well.

No, they beep. Even the 3 year old Gotways (e.g. my ACM) have always had their special overcharge warning beeps. I forgot if it tilted back on me the one time I've seen it.

But they'll probably (have to) dump you quickly if you ignore the overcharge beep.

This only shows the Onewheel really really really needs a beeper. No built in overcharge warning? How insane is that!

(That just shows my point. The Onewheel is awesome, but the level of technology compared to what's standard with EUCs or just plain common sense is a joke. EUCs that just switched off without warning were like 4+ years ago.)

Edited April 1, 2019 by meepmeepmayer

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, tessa25 said:

Do Inmotion and King Song wheels behave the same? For some reason I though overcharging on a downhill got you dumped with EUCs as well.

I can't say with absolute authority that Inmotion does because I've never experienced it on their wheels, but I would be surprised if it doesn't.

Modern EUCs do not dump you, but they aggressively tilt-back to force you to stop. It you happen to be riding fast downhill on a fully charged wheel, the aggressive nature of the tilt-back could cause you to fall off the wheel. I've personally seen this happen to a rider.

In the periodic situations (such as last weekend) where I'm riding a little bit downhill with a fully charged wheel, I always go slow until I can get to flat or uphill ground.

[Jimmy Chang]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

No, they beep. Even the 3 year old Gotways (e.g. my ACM) have always had their special overcharge warning beeps. I forgot if it tilted back on me the one time I've seen it.

But they'll probably (have to) dump you quickly if you ignore the overcharge beep.

This only shows the Onewheel really really really needs a beeper. No built in overcharge warning? How insane is that!

(That just shows my point. The Onewheel is awesome, but the level of technology compared to what's standard with EUCs or just plain common sense is a joke. EUCs that just switched off without warning were like 4+ years ago.)

The overcharge thing is crazy. I agree. If there is overcharge while going downhill the board will pushback (the term used in the Onewheel community) but that may be difficult to feel. Your phone app, if it is on, will send an alert but that is hard to hear or feel from your pocket while you are riding. If those 2 warnings are ignored (pushback and alerts on the phone) then the board will shut off, often times throwing you off.

Most inexperienced riders do not know about it. I bought a used board from a guy who said it happened to him after about 300 miles experience. Threw him off his board going downhill. Spooked him so much he decided to sell.

The audible alert from the OW itself is a highly inflammatory topic on the OW discussion groups. Many feel it would be helpful, but many feel it is unnecessary and would just be annoying. I won't go into the details as the argument against an audible alert are inane.

Pushback is the only real alert/warning system to warn the rider of an impending nosedive. If you are paying attention, you can learn to ride with pushback. But having suffered a nosedive (I ride super conservatively and only 1 nosedive in over 1000 miles), I can tell you when you are cruising and not giving the board your full attention, sometimes you can miss the pushback (which can be subtle) and the nosedive comes lightening fast. I have the scars as a reminder.

[erk1024]

In a way, this brings us back to the battery size issue. The EUC's have enough range that charging to 80% or 90% is common because helps the battery last longer, and you've probably got range to spare. (Is it common? what do I know? It's an option at least) In this case, starting off downhill is not a problem (unless you're at the top of a mountain maybe, LOL).

But with the OW, you're likely to want to fully charge it because of the limited range. So in order to have a fun hour long ride, you really need to charge it to 100%.

I guess if you are planning a OW group ride, not a good idea to start off with a downhill leg.

Edited April 1, 2019 by erk1024
clarification

[Dzlchef]

@Marty Backe I wheeled into Salt & Straw this afternoon and the young man helping me asked if Tesla makes wheels.  I tell him no but there is a model of wheel named a Tesla.  He said that he saw a picture of a guy riding one in Griffith Park a couple days ago.  I told him that I was there with the group...small world.  He saw it through the OW’s.  Spreading the word!

[Marty Backe]

12 minutes ago, Dzlchef said:

@Marty Backe I wheeled into Salt & Straw this afternoon and the young man helping me asked if Tesla makes wheels.  I tell him no but there is a model of wheel named a Tesla.  He said that he saw a picture of a guy riding one in Griffith Park a couple days ago.  I told him that I was there with the group...small world.  He saw it through the OW’s.  Spreading the word!

Very cool - what are the odds?

I'm showing my ignorance here, but what are OW's?

[Jambo]

23 minutes ago, Dzlchef said:

@Marty Backe I wheeled into Salt & Straw this afternoon and the young man helping me asked if Tesla makes wheels.  I tell him no but there is a model of wheel named a Tesla.  He said that he saw a picture of a guy riding one in Griffith Park a couple days ago.  I told him that I was there with the group...small world.  He saw it through the OW’s.  Spreading the word!

Is that the one on Ventura?