Electric Unicycle Wins Over a Big Onewheel Enthusiast

[Jimmy Chang]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

As an example, I'm hosting a Onewheel group ride this weekend in Los Angeles. The group membership is over 300! The Los Angeles EUC Group membership might be about 20 

I think that says it all.

I'm convinced that it's not just marketing, but the fact that the Onewheel is so much easier to pickup and learn and feels more familiar then those EUC Things.

Yes, but why are Onewheel riders so forgiving to the company and the board that they are willing to sacrifice literal blood, sweat, tears, and broken bones in defense of the Onewheel, an underpowered device with no safety margin when you reach the advertised top speed? I've seen and spoken to Onewheel riders in the hospital who were put in the ICU because of a nosedive yet the common theme is that they can't wait to get back on the board.

Probably a guy thing.

Also probably the reason why women live longer than men.

[Marty Backe]

23 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Is the Ninebot Z10 with its enormous tire about as easy to pick up as the OW?

My observation is that EUC riders can automatically ride a OW but the OW rider does have some difficulty riding an EUC.

The tire is big, but not that big. It's kind of agile like the Mten3, so I'm not sure it would be easier to learn, unless maybe you nearly deflate the tire

[tenofnine]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy Chang said:

Yes, but why are Onewheel riders so forgiving to the company and the board that they are willing to sacrifice literal blood, sweat, tears, and broken bones in defense of the Onewheel, an underpowered device with no safety margin when you reach the advertised top speed? I've seen and spoken to Onewheel riders in the hospital who were put in the ICU because of a nosedive yet the common theme is that they can't wait to get back on the board.

Probably a guy thing.

Also probably the reason why women live longer than men.

Yea definitely a guy thing, and also a made in america thing maybe. There is an intense passionate market in Cali for products made in Cali no matter the cost. Well that and the temperate awesome weather that lends well to all year playtime.

[Mike Sacristan]

I see a lot of comparisons and measuring are being done with the OneWheel against the EUC's advantages.
What would happen if we turned it around?

OneWheel can ride on sand. (some EUC can)
OneWheel can idle entirely still. (some EUC riders can)
OneWheel is crazy fun to carve with. (subjective but try and see)
OneWheel is "water resistant". (most EUC are)
Earlier models can be equipped with charge and ride. (external battery packs)
It has reversing front and back lights. (some EUC do)
You can move more dynamically on it.
You can ride bowls up or sideways beyond 45 degree tilt.
It's very controllable on downward inclines as long as they aren't too steep because then the tail will hit.
It has adjustable riding modes with sliders for very different feel of riding.
The tire comes slimed.
It's built like a tank. (some EUC are)
The company cares about their product, allow firmware updates, have a great app. (some EUC do)
It's fun at low speed. (some EUC are)
It feels like snowboarding/surfing.
Maximum rider weight of 275lbs / 125kg. (some EUC can handle this)
It weighs 27lbs / 12.25kg. (few EUC weigh this little)
You can defeat pushback.
There are quite a few products out allowing customisation and features.

Imagine longboarding. Now imagine getting good at it and loosening your trucks. Now imagine almost infinitely loose trucks. Your wheels become a cloud  that you float on.
That is the feeling of riding a OneWheel.

People who get on a stiff longboard the first time will be fine but they will wobble a bit at speed.
People who get on a OneWheel will usually wobble terribly side to side. For a few seconds or a few minutes until they figure it out.

I went through some of my old footage and made you guys a wobble compilation. Most are first time riders.

I prefer my EUC though. And I prefer my Ninebot One E+ to my MSX.

I guess if I ever wanted thrills I could armour up, learn to push through the pushback consistently and see how fast I can go. Once you push through the pushback you are on your own. It will barely self-balance.

 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Mike Sacristan
spelling

[meepmeepmayer]

4 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

OneWheel is "water resistant". (most EUC are)

I always heard the Onewheel randomly dies when it's getting so much as sprinkled a little . Maybe that's just part of the usual random switching-off and not water related

4 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

And I prefer my Ninebot One E+ to my MSX.

You might need a doctor, looks like something is... very unusual

[fryman]

28 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I always heard the Onewheel randomly dies when it's getting so much as sprinkled a little . Maybe that's just part of the usual random switching-off and not water related

You might need a doctor, looks like something is... very unusual

Hey, leave grandpa @Mike Sacristan alone.

[tenofnine]

5 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I see a lot of comparisons and measuring are being done with the OneWheel against the EUC's advantages.
What would happen if we turned it around?

OneWheel can ride on sand. (some EUC can)
OneWheel can idle entirely still. (some EUC riders can)
OneWheel is crazy fun to carve with. (subjective but try and see)
OneWheel is "water resistant". (most EUC are)
Earlier models can be equipped with charge and ride. (external battery packs)
It has reversing front and back lights. (some EUC do)
You can move more dynamically on it.
You can ride bowls up or sideways beyond 45 degree tilt.
It's very controllable on downward inclines as long as they aren't too steep because then the tail will hit.
It has adjustable riding modes with sliders for very different feel of riding.
The tire comes slimed.
It's built like a tank. (some EUC are)
The company cares about their product, allow firmware updates, have a great app. (some EUC do)
It's fun at low speed. (some EUC are)
It feels like snowboarding/surfing.
Maximum rider weight of 275lbs / 125kg. (some EUC can handle this)
It weighs 27lbs / 12.25kg. (few EUC weigh this little)
You can defeat pushback.
There are quite a few products out allowing customisation and features.

Imagine longboarding. Now imagine getting good at it and loosening your trucks. Now imagine almost infinitely loose trucks. Your wheels become a cloud  that you float on.
That is the feeling of riding a OneWheel.

People who get on a stiff longboard the first time will be fine but they will wobble a bit at speed.
People who get on a OneWheel will usually wobble terribly side to side. For a few seconds or a few minutes until they figure it out.

I went through some of my old footage and made you guys a wobble compilation. Most are first time riders.

I prefer my EUC though. And I prefer my Ninebot One E+ to my MSX.

I guess if I ever wanted thrills I could armour up, learn to push through the pushback consistently and see how fast I can go. Once you push through the pushback you are on your own. It will barely self-balance.

 

Yea I mean most of this is relevant.......BUUUUUUUT you have to take into consideration the price point.

At the price you pay for the XR almost every single thing listed is included or far superior on an EUC of equivalent price, and for sure at that price point a scooter or e-bike is far superior in most of those aspects by a larger factor. Obviously those 2 PEVs are farther away than EUCs in terms of the unique floating feeling.

For $1800 only 19 mph and 18 mile range (in ideal cond.).....it better be built like a tank or have something else to make up for those specs.

I love that is exists, it has a unique aesthetic, and I think it's a cool addition to the pantheon of PEVs....I even like that it's built in the US in one of the most expensive cities in Cali (why?). But for me personally it doesn't hold a candle to what EUCs can do. I don't get the hype (and this is coming from a life long skateboarder/longboarder). I feel the same way about Boosted boards, but I like those even less on account of having to hold a remote.

Edited March 30, 2019 by tenofnine

[Smoother]

11 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Is the Ninebot Z10 with its enormous tire about as easy to pick up as the OW?

My observation is that EUC riders can automatically ride a OW but the OW rider does have some difficulty riding an EUC.

The OW tyre looks like it is from a go kart so it has a flat profile, that is part of the reason it is easier to take up; it has a lot of left/right stability due to this tyre.

[erk1024]

6 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I see a lot of comparisons and measuring are being done with the OneWheel against the EUC's advantages.
What would happen if we turned it around?

OneWheel can ride on sand. (some EUC can)
OneWheel can idle entirely still. (some EUC riders can)
OneWheel is crazy fun to carve with. (subjective but try and see)
OneWheel is "water resistant". (most EUC are)
Earlier models can be equipped with charge and ride. (external battery packs)
It has reversing front and back lights. (some EUC do)
You can move more dynamically on it.
You can ride bowls up or sideways beyond 45 degree tilt.
It's very controllable on downward inclines as long as they aren't too steep because then the tail will hit.
It has adjustable riding modes with sliders for very different feel of riding.
The tire comes slimed.
It's built like a tank. (some EUC are)
The company cares about their product, allow firmware updates, have a great app. (some EUC do)
It's fun at low speed. (some EUC are)
It feels like snowboarding/surfing.
Maximum rider weight of 275lbs / 125kg. (some EUC can handle this)
It weighs 27lbs / 12.25kg. (few EUC weigh this little)
You can defeat pushback.
There are quite a few products out allowing customisation and features.

Imagine longboarding. Now imagine getting good at it and loosening your trucks. Now imagine almost infinitely loose trucks. Your wheels become a cloud  that you float on.
That is the feeling of riding a OneWheel.

People who get on a stiff longboard the first time will be fine but they will wobble a bit at speed.
People who get on a OneWheel will usually wobble terribly side to side. For a few seconds or a few minutes until they figure it out.

I went through some of my old footage and made you guys a wobble compilation. Most are first time riders.

I prefer my EUC though. And I prefer my Ninebot One E+ to my MSX.

I guess if I ever wanted thrills I could armour up, learn to push through the pushback consistently and see how fast I can go. Once you push through the pushback you are on your own. It will barely self-balance.

 

 

Seems like one issue with people just starting is that they ride too slow. Pretty much every PEV (or bike, scateboard, etc.) feels really unstable at low speeds. But when a new rider feels instability, their natural inclination is to slow down. This is a feedback loop where they go slower and slower, and it becomes less and less stable until they jump off. The proper (but unintuitive) thing to do is get to a more stable speed.

[Mono]

11 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

The tire is big, but not that big. It's kind of agile like the Mten3, so I'm not sure it would be easier to learn, unless maybe you nearly deflate the tire

The big difference is that the tire is wide and flat enough that you can "stably" stand still. That should make it much easier to begin with.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Mono

[erk1024]

10 minutes ago, Mono said:

The big difference is that the tire is wide and flat enough that you can "stably" stand still. That should make it much easier to begin with.

Agreed. The OW looks approachable in that regard, easier to get started.

[Jimmy Chang]

1 minute ago, erk1024 said:

Agreed. The OW looks approachable in that regard, easier to get started.

Another reason people gravitate towards the OW is because it looks familiar and different at the same time. A lot of the guys buying it used to be skateboarders as kids and they see it as a way of having that same skateboard feel but with a twist.

EUCs are completely foreign, at least to me when I first heard and saw them and even the name "unicycle" implies something very different that belongs in a circus act with clowns and juggling bears. I have only known a few people that ride traditional unicycles. When I tell people I bought an electric "Unicycle" I get a lot of raised eyebrows. I know it seems trivial but I do think it is another reason for lack of adoption.

I was just in Seattle last week and I saw 5 EUCs for every 1 Onewheel. The locals showing me around always called them "Solowheels" when they zipped past. I guess it had to do with marketing and some store that sold them in Seattle before InMotion bought them. The point is, when I said they are called "Electric Unicycles" everyone laughed at me. Maybe we should reconsider rebranding the name.

[tenofnine]

27 minutes ago, Jimmy Chang said:

Another reason people gravitate towards the OW is because it looks familiar and different at the same time. A lot of the guys buying it used to be skateboarders as kids and they see it as a way of having that same skateboard feel but with a twist.

EUCs are completely foreign, at least to me when I first heard and saw them and even the name "unicycle" implies something very different that belongs in a circus act with clowns and juggling bears. I have only known a few people that ride traditional unicycles. When I tell people I bought an electric "Unicycle" I get a lot of raised eyebrows. I know it seems trivial but I do think it is another reason for lack of adoption.

I was just in Seattle last week and I saw 5 EUCs for every 1 Onewheel. The locals showing me around always called them "Solowheels" when they zipped past. I guess it had to do with marketing and some store that sold them in Seattle before InMotion bought them. The point is, when I said they are called "Electric Unicycles" everyone laughed at me. Maybe we should reconsider rebranding the name.

Yea this is probably one of the oldest conversations regarding these contraptions.

Electric Unicycles is a bad name, most prefer EUCs on here it seems.

Solowheel was the original brand and inventor of this style of EUC, they merged with Inmotion. So pretty much every Inmotion and Solowheel model is interchangeable except for the naming. (only the Inmotion App has survived and is used with Solowheels too)

eWheel is probably a more fitting name, Solowheel is good but it already a specific brand. There is another site calls them Gliders, maybe eGliders can fit but gliders already describes a type of aircraft.

I'm hoping for a different name, but it seems set in stone already. People will just have to get over it. I don't give a hoot what people think of the name I just love riding them.

I thought hoverboards was a stupid name since it didn't make any sense....but most didn't seem to mind. Geez what a dumb device.

All things considered I think Solowheel and OneWheel are the strongest practical names in terms of marketing, but that is just my opinion.

Edited March 30, 2019 by tenofnine

[Mono]

21 minutes ago, tenofnine said:

All things considered I think Solowheel and OneWheel are the strongest practical names in terms of marketing, but that is just my opinion.

I find Monowheel even more intuitive. I think it is also branded, though much less known. In everyday life I refer to my EUC simply as Wheel.

[Marty Backe]

When people ask me what it is, often I will say, "what do you think it is?" It's surprising how many people will include the word "unicycle" in their guess.

So from my small sample size, I think "Electric Unicycle" works.

[LanghamP]

10 hours ago, Jimmy Chang said:

EUCs are completely foreign, at least to me when I first heard and saw them and even the name "unicycle" implies something very different that belongs in a circus act with clowns and juggling bears. 

"It's an electric unicycle..."

<this is where people ridicule it>

"...that goes 30 mph, safe speed."

<and this is where it goes from ridicule to being a nut job with a death wish>

[erk1024]

I dug up the specs on the One Wheel XR. I say "dug up" because they don't show the specs on the web page or anywhere obvious. The owner's manual doesn't have the battery size, for example.

MOTOR : 750W Hypercore hub motor

BATTERY : Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide (NMC) 324Wh 63V

SENSORS : Solid State MEMS 6-DOF

TIRE : 11.5×6.5-6 Vega

MAX LEAN ANGLE : >30 degrees

TOP SPEED : 19MPH / 30KPH

TYPICAL RANGE : 12-18 MI / 19-29 KM

DIMENSIONS : 9×11.5×30 (IN) / 23x29.21x72.6 (CM)

WEIGHT : 27 LB / 12.5 KG

RECHARGE TIME : 100 mins* (FY6303200 charger)

 

So 750 watt motor is not bad, but it's not going to compete with any of the big eWheels with 1800-2000 watt motors. But the real surprise is the 324 Wh battery, and the unusual chemistry it uses. 

Not criticizing here. The OneWheels look like fun, and if they have enough range for what you want to do, then mission accomplished. I'm 265 lbs, so that motor isn't going to be a good match for me.

[Jimmy Chang]

1 hour ago, erk1024 said:

I dug up the specs on the One Wheel XR. I say "dug up" because they don't show the specs on the web page or anywhere obvious. The owner's manual doesn't have the battery size, for example.

MOTOR : 750W Hypercore hub motor

BATTERY : Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide (NMC) 324Wh 63V

SENSORS : Solid State MEMS 6-DOF

TIRE : 11.5×6.5-6 Vega

MAX LEAN ANGLE : >30 degrees

TOP SPEED : 19MPH / 30KPH

TYPICAL RANGE : 12-18 MI / 19-29 KM

DIMENSIONS : 9×11.5×30 (IN) / 23x29.21x72.6 (CM)

WEIGHT : 27 LB / 12.5 KG

RECHARGE TIME : 100 mins* (FY6303200 charger)

 

So 750 watt motor is not bad, but it's not going to compete with any of the big eWheels with 1800-2000 watt motors. But the real surprise is the 324 Wh battery, and the unusual chemistry it uses. 

Not criticizing here. The OneWheels look like fun, and if they have enough range for what you want to do, then mission accomplished. I'm 265 lbs, so that motor isn't going to be a good match for me.

Can you explain how this is surprising to someone who knows little about batteries?

[tenofnine]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy Chang said:

Can you explain how this is surprising to someone who knows little about batteries?

Well I don't think it's that surprising personally, but they left out the Lithium part which might lead to confusion. It's just another type of Lithium-Ion battery, one of the cheaper but still efficient types that the 18650 cell is made with.

Apparently it's really good for PEV usage, but is also the choice of pretty much every vape battery source.

There are like 4 common Lithium Ion types, all pretty much same efficiency but in different ways. There are 1-2 types that are more rare and expensive for no real advantage so they aren't used anymore. It's fascinating chemistry; but I'm still waiting for a safer more efficient battery source to come along, still can't believe how slow energy sources are coming along compared to every other type of tech/chemistry.

[erk1024]

18 minutes ago, Jimmy Chang said:

Can you explain how this is surprising to someone who knows little about batteries?

Hi Jimmy,

I'd never heard of  Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide battery. I read a little bit about it, and it turns out that's a type of lithium ion battery, just with those elements added for various benefits. The other surprise is that 324Wh is just really small. The only EUC I know of that has that size battery is the Solowheel Glide 2 / InMotion V5F. The newer EUCs have 1554Wh batteries. The voltage is also lower at 63v compared to 84v in the eWheels--AFAIK higher voltage means you can send more watts to the motor.

As Jason at eWheels explained, each cell in a battery is limited in the amount of current it can provide at any given moment. That means that if you want the motor to have enough power for acceleration, hill climbing, or top speed you need more batteries. 

There is also a safety concern on a self balancing PEV. The motor needs to have enough power to accelerate the wheel so it can self-balance (e.g get under you again if you are leaning forward). 

I guess I just thought the larger XR would have more than 324Wh...

Edited March 31, 2019 by erk1024
additional info

[tenofnine]

2 minutes ago, erk1024 said:

Hi Jimmy,

I'd never heard of  Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide battery. I read a little bit about it, and it turns out that's a type of lithium ion battery, just with those elements added for various benefits. The other surprise is that 324Wh is just really small. The only EUC I know of that has that size battery is the Solowheel Glide 2 / InMotion V5F. The newer EUCs have 1554Wh batteries.

As Jason at eWheels explained, each cell in a battery is limited in the amount of current it can provide at any given moment. That means that if you want the motor to have enough power for acceleration, hill climbing, or top speed you need more batteries. 

There is also a safety concern on a self balancing PEV. The motor needs to have enough power to accelerate the wheel so it can self-balance (e.g get under you again if you are leaning forward). 

I guess I just thought the larger XR would have more than 324Wh...

Kinda true but there is still a bottle neck in how much power you can get out of these cells at once no matter how many you got in your PEV.

The 750W across such a tiny go kart tire that has more surface area is going to outperform most of the top of the line EUCs in terms of torque, acceleration, and climbing power. But it's still limited by it's bad form factor of having a nose and tail and not being able to adjust quickly to inclines and declines (or inconsistent terrain).

324 Whr estimated at 12-18 miles on a 750W motor shouldn't really be surprising at all, that's about on par with what any PEV can get out of a battery that size given a nominal load.

[erk1024]

They just need to make the "clydesdale" version of the OneWheel so a gravity challenged rider like me can buy one! 1000w with 500wh battery... I was really tempted to get one until I figured out that I was too close to the weight limit, and then I stumbled across the EUC's.

[meepmeepmayer]

The Onewheel battery type can be taken on planes, I believe, while standard Li-ion batteries are a big no-no.

The 750W motor is fine, that's like 1500W peak, that's not huge but a lot. Like a 14D or 14S or V8. Outdated (for EUCs) but still decent.

Battery is positively tiny. Like EUCs, the power output is limited by the battery. Like early EUCs with small batteries, (way too) easy to overpower. A bigger battery would solve all this (all the nosedives). It's puzzling why they dont do this. One would think a 25mph 30-50mile Onewheel would fly off the shelves, even if they sell it at their crazy price level (compared to what you get in a EUC for the same money).

[LanghamP]

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

It's puzzling why they dont do this. One would think a 25mph 30-50mile Onewheel would fly off the shelves, even if they sell it at their crazy price level (compared to what you get in a EUC for the same money).

It's ridiculous they haven't gone to a much bigger battery. Is there room to fit a doubled battery?

[Jerome]

12 hours ago, Jimmy Chang said:

Can you explain how this is surprising to someone who knows little about batteries?

The battery chemistry of today  uses some form of a lithium compound. The predecessor of the lithium chemistry was NIMH (nickel metal hydride). The OW is using some derivative of an older chemistry. I suspect they did this to separate themselves from the "Hoverboard fiasco" several years ago. Any battery with lithium in its name was a red flag, until TESLA ad Computer/CELL phone companies eased the consumer's fears. (The airlines never forgot and have not been d)