Survey: What Size New King Song Pedal Do You Want?

[Jason McNeil]

There's some debate within KS about the optimum pedal length for a new pedal design. The existing length is approximately ~20 cm long (8" inches), while those on the V10 are ~24cm (9.5" inches) long. 

The arguments in favour of having a 25 cm pedal are:

1. Greater comfort: more surface area to provide your foot with better support, so that there will be a lower proportion hanging off the front of the pedal  
2. Safety: larger pedals offer a higher degree of safety. In situations where you hit an unexpected pot-hole or curb, there will be a higher probability that if you momentarily loose, or shift your footing, you'll be able to regain control.
3. Performance: with the lever effect on an Electric Unicycle, you will also be able shift your weight distribution more effectively, giving you both better acceleration & braking performance. 

The main downside if the pedal's length is too long, relative to the height of the support structure, is scraping on sharp turns. This can be partially mitigated by changing the geometry of edges to more of a convex shape, similar to those found on the V8. I believe that without any modification to the height, a 25cm long pedal, offers the perfect balance of extra support & minimal pedal scraping risks, primarily on the 16-18" Wheels. Please let us know your thoughts. 

Thanks to @houseofjob for his previous comparative overview of all the pedal options currently available  

This is a side-by-side comparison of both the existing 20cm type, with a proposed 22cm version—IMO it's not enough! If we're going to be spending the time & expense on this project, then it ought to be more than a 10% marginal increase over the existing pedals. 

[Mono]

13 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

The main downside if the pedal's length is too long, relative to the height of the support structure, is scraping on sharp turns. This can be partially mitigated by changing the geometry of edges to more of a convex shape, similar to those found on the V8. I believe that without any modification to the height, a 25cm long pedal, offers the perfect balance of extra support & minimal pedal scraping risks, primarily on the 16-18" Wheels. Please let us know your thoughts. 

+1 for >21cm with shoe size 45. I can't say what would be best, as I have no experience with longer pedals. I am not worried about scraping in curves, more worried about catching a bump or a stone with the pedal, in particular offroad, and my foot tip gets caught once in a while when I drive up stairs. In either case, >14cm pedal clearance is IMHO highly desirable and mitigates any of these disadvantages.

[em1barns]

@Jason McNeil, on top of length change, what would be nice is to have a nice flat aluminium surface on the entire pedal, as in v5/v8 to make it easy to replace the grip.

[meepmeepmayer]

I don't have a KS, but if I wanted bigger pedals, I'd want them as big as they can reasonably be. 2cm more is pointless, it solves nothing and costs a lot of money. 5cm is probably a halfway measure (but it would be something, every bit helps).

It all depends on the pedal scraping, it's the limiting factor. Ideally they'd make new pedal brackets for higher pedals and then they could go wild with pedal size, but that would require a shell redesign...

Remote idea, how about a piece you can put between the pedal and the bracket to lift the pedal? Here's a design example for Gotways:

Maybe if the manufacture something like this along with bigger pedals?

[US69]

22 minutes ago, em1barns said:

@Jason McNeil, on top of length change, what would be nice is to have a nice flat aluminium surface on the entire pedal, as in v5/v8 to make it easy to replace the grip.

? Really?

Did you actually ever Change the griptape on the KS pedals? There is a hard PVC/ABS plastic on it which is actually flat and it is allready more than easy to Change the griptape?

I guess  a higher Aluminium/Magnesium Surface would make the pedals unnecessary more heavy....

Griptape changed:

 

[Carl Svanfelt]

I have a small foot but I did voted for a 5-8 cm larger pedal size. What I miss on my KingSong 16C is also a broader pedal (not just longer). I'm working as a photographer and have replaced my car with a EUC. I traveling often up to 100 km (62mi) during a working day and a pedal that is not only longer but also wider will allow me to change the position on my feet when I ride. 
The battery pack is so thick so there is no space on the pedal to keep your feet in a comfortable V position. Therefore, a longer pedal does not remove the uncomfortable riding position. It must also be wider.
It's a little bit hard to explain using Google Translate. So if I'm unclear in my explanation, we must blame Google.

[Circuitmage]

The way I have learned to ride (mostly on my 16S) is to have my foot slightly over the pedal. On high speed turns I can scrape the edge of my shoe on the ground as I slowly lean into the turn. I have found when my pedal hits stuff, it ends up a bad situation. I actually really like the pedal size as it is.

Also, I am wondering what the mechanical considerations would be. I think I saw a KS16 with a broken bolt on this forum. The larger the pedal, the more leverage force you are putting on the pedal. Then, if a heavier person gets on it...you're talking some serious force on that pedal.

I wonder what kind of force tests have been done on the pedals, if any.

 

[RockyTop]

If you are trying to sell a bigger pedals  I am not going to bother buying it if it is just 2 cm bigger. I think that a new shape and bottom of pedal angle is in order. 

I wathed a YT series on living in China as an American. They say to bring plenty of shoes because even though some people are well over 6 feet tall they still wear men’s size 7 shoe or smaller.

Side note: I have a new MSuper. It rains every day here. I do not ride in the rain but my shoes are always wet. I think this has caused the glue that holds the grit on the pedal to dissolve because most of the grit is gone after just 3 month. So like others I am going to remove the grit and rubber strips  and replace the grit with better grit tape. 

[houseofjob]

My 2 cents:

• One size does not fit all, as the most popular foot sizes I believe are US Men's 9 and 10.5/11.
• Plus, everyone does not ride the same: 
  • For me, I am a relatively small-footer at USM 8.5, and enjoy deep, hip-turning carves. So my ideal pedals would be slightly shorter than my shoe length / match my barefoot length; be a relatively rectangular shape (ala KS, Gotway); and the pedal width would not be much wider than my shoe width of 4 inches.
  • For others, I am under the impression that many on this forum are big-footers (USM10-11) and do primarily smaller, whole-body turns, where pedal scraping is less of a concern.

So ideally, I think the best solution would be to come out with 2 similarly shaped pedal sizes, Medium & Large, ala clothing sizes (the existing 8" KS pedals would cover Small), with the widths increasing proportionally:

• Medium: 9.5" x 5" or ~ 24cm x 12.5cm
• Large: 10" x 5 1/4" or ~ 25.5cm x 13cm

 

As always, thanks @Jason McNeil for representing we, the enthusiast EUC ridership, in proactively pushing through change. It is always much appreciated!

[LanghamP]

We don't need the corners of the pedals because we don't put force on them. That's just unused space that gets caught in pavement cracks on sharp low-speed turns.

We do need longer pedals; as a size 9.5 US the balls of my feet overhang all my pedals. On the KS16s they overhang by a small amount whereas on the KS14c they do not even touch the pedal.

Ridiculous how small these pedals are although we can make smaller pedals work with some effort.

In my experience the Inmotion pedals are nearly perfect, they just need to be longer. 

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, dismason said:

a longer pedal does not remove the uncomfortable riding position. It must also be wider.

Exactly! My shoes hang more than an inch beyond the side of the original pedals. This pedal extension is what my feet require on the 16S to make it comfortable:

It is 15mm longer at the rear, 27mm at the front, and 27mm to the side.

1 hour ago, Circuitmage said:

I think I saw a KS16 with a broken bolt on this forum. The larger the pedal, the more leverage force you are putting on the pedal. Then, if a heavier person gets on it...you're talking some serious force on that pedal.

Yes, it was my 16S after 8000kms, most of it off road. Considering that the added momentum from a longer pedal is countered by the motor alone (or you would fall), if the wheel can be overleaned with the original pedals, the maximum force that the pedal can propose can be no higher than it can with the original pedals.

Besides, the term ”Chinese bolt” is well known to many people. The concistency of the materials and threading is something that makes a snapped bolt a likely event with the amount of wheels KS has sold.

[em1barns]

2 hours ago, US69 said:

? Really?

Did you actually ever Change the griptape on the KS pedals? There is a hard PVC/ABS plastic on it which is actually flat and it is allready more than easy to Change the griptape?

I guess  a higher Aluminium/Magnesium Surface would make the pedals unnecessary more heavy....

Griptape changed:

 

At least we agree a flat surface would be better to put grip on the entire pedal, as you did on the picture.

Unfortunately, the current 3D kingsong logo in the middle is an annoyance at properly fitting grip tape. 

Plus it is pretty useless: a black logo on black background that will never be seen by anyone as you either have your feet on it or pedals are folded...

[US69]

28 minutes ago, em1barns said:

Unfortunately, the current 3D kingsong logo in the middle is an annoyance at properly fitting grip tape. 

Thats what i wanted to prove with my post....it is absolutely not, it is allready that flat that you dont even see it anymore under the griptape.

I had no probs whatsoever in installing the new griptape....but i can agree that the Logo at this place is pretty mich useless ;-)

[Michael Vu]

On 8/21/2018 at 9:03 AM, dismason said:

I have a small foot but I did voted for a 5-8 cm larger pedal size. What I miss on my KingSong 16C is also a broader pedal (not just longer). I'm working as a photographer and have replaced my car with a EUC. I traveling often up to 100 km (62mi) during a working day and a pedal that is not only longer but also wider will allow me to change the position on my feet when I ride. 
The battery pack is so thick so there is no space on the pedal to keep your feet in a comfortable V position. Therefore, a longer pedal does not remove the uncomfortable riding position. It must also be wider.
It's a little bit hard to explain using Google Translate. So if I'm unclear in my explanation, we must blame Google.

For me I naturally stand in a straight leg position so I don't need any wider pedals. But I know plenty of riders that naturally stand in a V position and it seems that the pedals right now have been just fine for the most part.

Ideally if there was a way to engineer adjustable size pedals along with adjustable pedal height that would be ideal for everyone.

[Carl Svanfelt]

7 hours ago, Michael Vu said:

For me I naturally stand in a straight leg position so I don't need any wider pedals. But I know plenty of riders that naturally stand in a V position and it seems that the pedals right now have been just fine for the most part.

Ideally if there was a way to engineer adjustable size pedals along with adjustable pedal height that would be ideal for everyone.

The perfect size of the pedal for me would be +6 cm (2.5 in) longer and +2 cm (0.8 in) wider from today size. My foot size is 42 Eur (mens size 8.5 (US), 8.0 (UK)).
I am also of the opinion that the entire mechanism needs to be updated with a model that absorbs the shocks from the ground. This is needed because one of the most common complaints from those hwo driving EUCs concerns pain in the legs. The solution I have in mind does not necessarily increase the manufacturing costs of the pedal. Return to this issue later when I have finished my pedal prototype.
In any case, one thing is very very important. Chinese manufacturers have to listen to their customers. Here in Finland we use to say: "If a customer is satisfied with the product, he tells it for a maximum of 3 people. If a customer is disappointed, he tells it to everyone (and that is not good for the busines)."
Regards
Carl

[em1barns]

On 8/21/2018 at 6:33 PM, US69 said:

Thats what i wanted to prove with my post....it is absolutely not, it is allready that flat that you dont even see it anymore under the griptape.

I had no probs whatsoever in installing the new griptape....but i can agree that the Logo at this place is pretty mich useless ;-)

I don’t agree it’s not an annoyance, and again, it has been discussed with other riders on French forum that were having issues changing grip on 18L. Grip is made for flat surfaces.

I appreciate you are trying to make workarounds work for us, but as this is about a new pedal design, why not make it right and have a really flat surface?

Full grip as you did is what is most convenient for riders, not half grip surface as provided on v3 pedals. The grip type they added is good quality though.

[US69]

 

 

54 minutes ago, em1barns said:

don’t agree it’s not an annoyance, and again, it has been discussed with other riders on French forum that were having issues changing grip on 18L. 

Ok? Here is another rider, me,  that had no issues whatsoever......and already did it 2 times?  Guess everone has another sight of what is an issue and whats not...

 

54 minutes ago, em1barns said:

I appreciate you are trying to make workarounds work for us, but as this is about a new pedal design, why not make it right and have a really flat Surface?

I have absolutly nothing against a flat Surface, i just dont see the Need for an Aluminium Surface. That would make the pedal unnecessary heavy.

[Mono]

2 hours ago, US69 said:

I have Nothing against a flat Surface, i just dont see the Need for an Aluminium Surface. That would make the pedal unnecessary heavy.

I always thought that aluminium is a comparatively light material to achieve a given strength.

[em1barns]

44 minutes ago, US69 said:

I have Nothing against a flat Surface, i just dont see the Need for an Aluminium Surface. That would make the pedal unnecessary heavy.

 

Ok? Here is another rider, me,  that had no issues whatsoever......and already did it 2 times! When i Change it next time perhaps i do some photos/Videos :-)

I am not so focused on the aluminum surface, just thought it felt nice on other wheels.

What you don’t consider as a flaw may be to some people. Consider this survey and results so far, you were in the 6% people thinking pedals were long enough.

[US69]

38 minutes ago, em1barns said:

I am not so focused on the aluminum surface, just thought it felt nice on other wheels.

What you don’t consider as a flaw may be to some people. Consider this survey and results so far, you were in the 6% people thinking pedals were long enough.

??? Good Research! 

I am in the 14% who voted for 3 cm....but yeah, even with 43-44 Shoesize i could easily live with the actual pedal lenght...

[Smoother]

Just for reference, my Bigfoot pedals are 34.7cm long.  I love them and have no issues whatsoever.  OK, maybe just one, I may, in the future shave about 1cm off the front.  When pushing the wheel up very steep hills (pushing not riding) the tips sometimes dig into the ground (usually if the tire is in a rut, thus lower than the surrounding dirt).  Other than that tiny niggle, they are fantastic.  I can't imaging riding on standard factory pedals again.

 

EDIT:  Instead of cutting them, I've notice that I could move them back 1cm instead.  8 small holes to drill and countersink verses the hassle of cutting this thick, strong Ali plate.

 

[Mono]

Just for reference, sizes 

EU 46, US 13, UK 12, fit to 30 cm foot length.
EU 38, US 6, UK 5 fit to 24 cm foot length.

https://otzshoes.com/pages/size-chart

[The Fat Unicyclist]

On ‎8‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 11:51 PM, Smoother said:

Just for reference, my Bigfoot pedals are 34.7cm long.  I love them and have no issues whatsoever.  OK, maybe just one, I may, in the future shave about 1cm off the front.  When pushing the wheel up very steep hills (pushing not riding) the tips sometimes dig into the ground (usually if the tire is in a rut, thus lower than the surrounding dirt).  Other than that tiny niggle, they are fantastic.  I can't imaging riding on standard factory pedals again.

Why don't you just push it up the hill backward (the wheel that is, not you)?   

[Smoother]

1 hour ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Why don't you just push it up the hill backward (the wheel that is, not you)?   

 Because, that would be far too obvious. Dooh!!  Good observation.  I'm so anal about always having it facing the right direction (especially now as it has asymmetric pedals) that, that thought did not cross my mind.  I'll make sure and follow your advice in the future, thanks.

[RayRay]

2 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Why don't you just push it up the hill backward (the wheel that is, not you)?   

Ah, push it - push it good
Ah, push it - push it real good

Oooh, baby, baby...