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Is the Ninebot Z series 4 inch wide tire a good thing?


Jerome
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I am learning to ride an euc at a late age, but doing surprising well. I will probably upgrade this spring/summer from my Ninebot E+. EUCs are primary commuting, errand running tools for me in a large east coast city. A lot of my riding will be on sidewalks which are not often very even as are many of the curbs. I see videos on hoping and riding over speed bumps, etc. but I still dread them like the plague. I would like to believe that an 18 inch wheel will handle said surfaces easier than a 16 inch? If that is true would the same be said for the Ninebot Z series 4 inch wide tires versus say the 18 inch Gotway Super V3 or the coming King Song 18L? 

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18 does handle bumps better the 16. I prefer 18's to 16's. You are smart on that fact. Wide tires are an interesting case. I ride OneWheel which is a 6.5 tire. You can definitely turn better on an EUC just because of the skinner tire. However, there are tons of proficient OneWheel riders who can do amazing things on the 6.5 tire. They can turn corners that I think are iffy. Of course, that's the community for you. They are a daring bunch, at least, here in Oregon they are daring.

What I have noticed otherwise riding with OneWheelers (since they are the dominant electric ride here) is that they do better in mud. Where EUC's spin out, they tend to roll through, it could be skill or the tire. I'm not sure yet.

Having said all that, given a choice, I want a bigger and fatter tire if everything else is equal. The only other thing to keep in mind is that some bumps, because of uneven surfaces, will feel like you ran over the curb. You know that feeling when the car is inclined? It happens on the OneWheel at times which, if you are not prepared for it, can throw you for a loop as far as balancing. 

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31 minutes ago, Unventor said:

@outcast00096 I like that you share riding dynamics. As @Jerome I am fairly new to EUC. I have 2 training sessions on my belt now totally 20-30ish min of riding back and forth in our basement.

Slowly improving...I think.?

 

Looking pretty good! The thing that really made me turn the corner and start riding correctly was a solowheel training video. They said, “turn towards the way you are falling.” I had control once I grasped that dynamic.

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@Jerome Until we get EUC's with suspension, there is no perfect EUC for speed bumps. 

Bigger diameter tires will cushion the speed bump better due to having more volume to displace the bump. Obviously, wider tires will also increase this volume (and surface area contact) to absorb impact.

Also, using a tire with more % rubber consistency, like Chao Yang Tires (CYT), will give you a better sensation of cushioning the blow, along with staying grounded to the pavement due to the greater weight and density. Not sure what the stock tire on a Ninebot One E+ is, but if you're that concerned about bumps, stay away from Kenda, as those tires are the lightest and will emphasize the bump more.

Edited by houseofjob
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Great progress Unventor!   Once you start picking up a little more speed it gets easier to balance, just like on a bicycle.  When you ride slow on either one, there's more need to do twisting motions to keep afloat.  Keep up with the great progress.

The Ninebot One is actually pretty good going over bumps and curb lips.  Usually if I take them with a little bit of speed and use my legs as shock absorbers it just rolls over them.  Going up curved sidewalk edges is fun too once you get used to that.  I can hit them straight on and roll up over them with no problems.

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
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I think a big part of it is trusting your wheel to balance you.  It's not for the faint of heart.  Once you are able to relax more you can concentrate on your side to side balancing and slow speeds.  Going over obstacles takes some getting used to for sure.  Your mind creates this barrier making you think no way I am going to make it so your body responds accordingly.  If you start thinking more like yeah I'm just gonna roll over that bump you and the wheel end up doing it.  Sometimes taking bumps at an angle works wonders.  I haven't mastered the jump while riding over a curb, and I doubt I will any time soon.  Some people are able to do a hop up which looks like a good skill to acquire.

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We still have a little snow outside (in Sweden) and risk of light snowfall again tonight.

So my plan is to keep training in basement and then at some point move on to my heated garage (car parked outside while using the garage to learn wider turning in 8).

But for now, this will have to do, as my knees and lower back isn't trained up for this yet. Actorly today is my first day not limping within 2 hours of getting out of bed going to work for more than a year.

So all in all moving ahead slowly but with focus.

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1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

@Jerome Until we get EUC's with suspension, there is no perfect EUC for speed bumps. 

Bigger diameter tires will cushion the speed bump better due to having more volume to displace the bump. Obviously, wider tires will also increase this volume (and surface area contact) to absorb impact.

Also, using a tire with more % rubber consistency, like Chao Yang Tires (CYT), will give you a better sensation of cushioning the blow, along with staying grounded to the pavement due to the greater weight and density. Not sure what the stock tire on a Ninebot One E+ is, but if you're that concerned about bumps, stay away from Kenda, as those tires are the lightest and will emphasize the bump more.

Just checked the Ninebot E+, it has a CST e-bike pro 16X1.195 tire.  Cheng Shen seems like a decent tire.  Maybe a little thin on rubber.

Not important but interesting to find out.

The S1 has a Duro 2x2.125 called the CrossRanger.

I never noticed before that the smaller wheel has a wider tire.

 

Edited by steve454
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4 minutes ago, steve454 said:

Just checked the Ninebot E+, it has a CST e-bike pro 16X1.195 tire.  Cheng Shen seems like a decent tire.  Maybe a little thin on rubber.

CST is very similar to CYT, but in my experience, CYT is a tad denser, heavier, bouncier due to more rubber.

On the flipside, they can wear down faster, which is why if longevity is more your thing, Kenda will be better.

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For riding style I’d say narrower tires are better for urban riding which is mostly what you do. Wide profile seems to be more for surface area. I decided to go from pavement to sand on my 16S which has narrow tires. Wheel sunk into the sand and stayed there while I kept going. Wheel didn’t even fall down; it dug in so it stayed upright. I think the wide tires would have done better in these situations, kind of like snow shoes. 

Edited by gr8ps
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4 hours ago, Jerome said:

I am learning to ride an euc at a late age, but doing surprising well. I will probably upgrade this spring/summer from my Ninebot E+. EUCs are primary commuting, errand running tools for me in a large east coast city. A lot of my riding will be on sidewalks which are not often very even as are many of the curbs. I see videos on hoping and riding over speed bumps, etc. but I still dread them like the plague. I would like to believe that an 18 inch wheel will handle said surfaces easier than a 16 inch? If that is true would the same be said for the Ninebot Z series 4 inch wide tires versus say the 18 inch Gotway Super V3 or the coming King Song 18L? 

My advice is to earn your wings and then see how you feel. You may lust for bigger/faster/newer but, in time, may realize you don't really need the latest and greatest, unless you want to become a collector or amass a fleet of wheels.

I have been riding my E+ for two years and have 4000km on it. I commute and run errands with it every day but do take longer rides when I have time (I have two spare batteries and have modified my E+ for quick battery swap). For urban/suburban commuting and errands, the E+ is perfect most of the time: it is very maneuvarable, durable and reliable, and fast enough. It handles damaged, uneven sidewalks and roads well (better than a 14") without the heft of a bigger wheel. Although I am on the Ninebot One Z wait list and am very much looking forward to a fat tire 18" wheel, my trusted and reliable E+ will probably remain my first choice for getting around, and the Z will become my weekend cruiser.

Edited by litewave
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I would also add that tire inflation makes a big difference. I had been riding my E+ for the past 6 weeks on low pressure (30-35psi) and found the ride to be smoother and grippier. When I finally inflated the tire back up to 50psi, I was astonished how differently the wheel handled. However, I also sacrificed about 30-40% range per battery charge (about 6-7 miles versus 10+) with an underinflated tire.

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4 hours ago, Jerome said:

I am learning to ride an euc at a late age, but doing surprising well. I will probably upgrade this spring/summer from my Ninebot E+. EUCs are primary commuting, errand running tools for me in a large east coast city. A lot of my riding will be on sidewalks which are not often very even as are many of the curbs. I see videos on hoping and riding over speed bumps, etc. but I still dread them like the plague. I would like to believe that an 18 inch wheel will handle said surfaces easier than a 16 inch? If that is true would the same be said for the Ninebot Z series 4 inch wide tires versus say the 18 inch Gotway Super V3 or the coming King Song 18L? 

Certainly the diameter of the tire is more important than the width. That being said, the Z10 is the first 18-inch wheel with a super-wide tire. So we're all going to find out soon.

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2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Certainly the diameter of the tire is more important than the width.

I disagree.  Going from 2.5" wide to 4" wide is a 60% increase in width and volume -- going from 16" to 22in is only a 37% increase.

I think we'll have to wait for ride reviews before judging.  The "best" will likely be a function of personal preference, riding style, and terrain.

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2 hours ago, litewave said:

I would also add that tire inflation makes a big difference. I had been riding my E+ for the past 6 weeks on low pressure (30-35psi) and found the ride to be smoother and grippier. When I finally inflated the tire back up to 50psi, I was astonished how differently the wheel handled. However, I also sacrificed about 30-40% range per battery charge (about 6-7 miles versus 10+) with an underinflated tire.

Interesting. I m no speed nut, and I am kinda comfortable with the tilting back at speed/battery limits with the E+. I weigh, however, 240 lbs riding and have found the useful range of the Ninebot E+ to be only 6 miles. ( I have NO interest in limp along range). I will check the tire pressure first chance I get. If I could get 8+ mile range, my need to spend $$$ for a bigger more powerful wheel would drop significantly .. but we all know it will only be a matter of time ;)

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4 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I think a big part of it is trusting your wheel to balance you.  It's not for the faint of heart.  Once you are able to relax more you can concentrate on your side to side balancing and slow speeds.  Going over obstacles takes some getting used to for sure.  Your mind creates this barrier making you think no way I am going to make it so your body responds accordingly.  If you start thinking more like yeah I'm just gonna roll over that bump you and the wheel end up doing it.  Sometimes taking bumps at an angle works wonders.  I haven't mastered the jump while riding over a curb, and I doubt I will any time soon.  Some people are able to do a hop up which looks like a good skill to acquire.

Good advice. I know it's mental which amazes me. I have ridden my motorcycle in extremely perilous situations with less heart palpitations then worrying about falling 5 or so inches from the euc petals.:lol: We'll get there, however, let there be no doubt.

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2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Certainly the diameter of the tire is more important than the width. That being said, the Z10 is the first 18-inch wheel with a super-wide tire. So we're all going to find out soon.

Marty, you are the personification of riding on rough terrain. You do it with 14 inch to 22 inch wheels. If I acquire 20% of your capability, I will be good to go.

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32 minutes ago, duaner said:

I disagree.  Going from 2.5" wide to 4" wide is a 60% increase in width and volume -- going from 16" to 22in is only a 37% increase.

I think we'll have to wait for ride reviews before judging.  The "best" will likely be a function of personal preference, riding style, and terrain.

You're talking about surface area. I'm talking about ease of riding over obstacles. I larger diameter tire easily rides over obstacles with more comfort and less input from the rider.

Assuming that I'm not climbing many steep hills, I'd much rather take my Monster trail riding than any of my smaller wheels. As I've said before, the Monster laughs at ruts, rocks, you name it.

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20 hours ago, Jerome said:

Interesting. I m no speed nut, and I am kinda comfortable with the tilting back at speed/battery limits with the E+. I weigh, however, 240 lbs riding and have found the useful range of the Ninebot E+ to be only 6 miles. ( I have NO interest in limp along range). I will check the tire pressure first chance I get. If I could get 8+ mile range, my need to spend $$$ for a bigger more powerful wheel would drop significantly .. but we all know it will only be a matter of time ;)

The Ninebot 's range can be frustrating unless you carry spare batteries like I do; here, here, and here are the links for the battery mod. With backpack, batteries and acccessories I weigh 170-175, and I struggle to get 10 miles (albeit on older batteries) under moderate conditons. When riding hard as I often do, I get 6-8 miles per charge.

Although Big Bob @Bob Eisenman put 5000 miles or so on his E+ before upsizing to a Monster, I think buying a bigger wheel when your are ready probably makes more sense for your needs.

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I think @alon av mentioned the wider tire was better for handling off road terrain?  I wonder if there would be any advantage of trying to create a dual inline motor EUC in terms of torque.  You would think it should theoretically double the hill climbing ability by having two motors working in tandem.

 

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
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On 3/27/2018 at 12:04 PM, duaner said:

I disagree.  Going from 2.5" wide to 4" wide is a 60% increase in width and volume -- going from 16" to 22in is only a 37% increase.

I think we'll have to wait for ride reviews before judging.  The "best" will likely be a function of personal preference, riding style, and terrain.

its not about only the volume but about how much tyre U can deflated to have a good grip on the surface and protection on sides so tyre wont slip from wheel, similar like for 4x4, width helps riding offroad but only if U deflate tyre and U will have big aspect ratio to tyre profile - it not much about how wide tyre can be but how much U can flat tyre and perfectly will be to install on 14/16' wheel 18' tyre so can be flatten and extend/make longer surface of grip, but in that situation power of motor must be important otherwise U will have not enough power to run across obstacles, do quick turns and ride on soft surface + battery will last much shorter. And second thing pattern on the tyre is as important as things above - poor quality tyre even designed for offroad will make Ur fun much more difficult.

will be nice to have some shook absorption but this have to be tested under very strong work and big question will be if better have mounted between wheel and body part or just only shooks on pedals, and in certain angle when U hit obstacle does will help U to absorb energy or will shoot U out into air during high speed ride

anyway i deflated my NOne E+ to 25psi and i can notice how hard motor is working but grip and traction on slippery and soft surface was much much better (turning on sealed road was double hard so have portable inflater when U finish off-roading otherwise don't sharp turn), and what i noticed (which i though that will be not noticeable) that pedals are much more closer to ground so i had smaller clearance and during turning and balancing on uneven surface i drag bottom of pedals on few occasion, so pedals for 4WD must be much higher

but i luv to try that NOne Z :)

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