that0n3guy Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Fastmike said: Was that going uphill? just curious... Yup, every time. Usually accelerating hard up a hill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post UniVehje Posted July 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 2, 2018 I got the siren fixed! I was messing up with DIY sounds and tried to recod something else over the speed alarm. (Chinese name, btw) I didn’t manage to properly transfer my diy sounds but something happened. Now it doesn’t have any alarm sound. So I’m going into the tiltback without no warning sound. But it’s ok. I can finally ride in silence and the hard tiltback doesn’t come before 37 km/h now. There’s a slight and polite tiltback starting at 35 km/h. And for the roads I ride, that’s enough speed already. I don’t miss the few missing km/h at the moment. I’m just riding on the comfort mode and enjoying it very much. I’m so happy I never have to hear that horrible alarm again! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post UniVehje Posted July 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 2, 2018 (edited) For all the negative talk about the V10 recently, here's some positive footage. Just with my phone, so not that great quality. I just love riding like this and the wheel really performs well here. The speed is enough even with the firmware bug. And now without any warning siren. Just a tiltback starting 5 km/h too early. Startet filming at half way to long hill. 75 kg / 165 lbs, comfort (A) mode, 2.8 bars. Earlier I was going uphill a high hill at 35 km/h. Still no over loads for me. Edited July 2, 2018 by UniVehje 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maltocs Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 2 hours ago, UniVehje said: For all the negative talk about the V10 recently, here's some positive footage. Just with my phone, so not that great quality. I just love riding like this and the wheel really performs well here. The speed is enough even with the firmware bug. And now without any warning siren. Just a tailback starting 5 km/h too early. Startet filming at half way to long hill. 75 kg / 165 lbs, comfort (A) mode, 2.8 bars. Earlier I was going uphill a high hill at 35 km/h. Still no over loads for me. Weight is definitely an issue. I feel like somewhere between 150lb and 200lb rider weight there lies the torque tolerance for overload. Try doing the hill again with a 30lb backpack and let me know how it goes. I'd do the test on my end opposite wise but it might be a few months before i can LOSE 30 lbs 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 24 minutes ago, maltocs said: Weight is definitely an issue. I feel like somewhere between 150lb and 200lb rider weight there lies the torque tolerance for overload. Try doing the hill again with a 30lb backpack and let me know how it goes. I'd do the test on my end opposite wise but it might be a few months before i can LOSE 30 lbs I’ve actually already thought about doing that. Just to find out what happens. I have a good backpack that can carry a lot of stones. You could let another person ride your wheel. Maybe even @Marty Backe himself as he was able to ride the V10F without improper over loads. These tests would show if the only cause is the rider weight. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, UniVehje said: I’ve actually already thought about doing that. Just to find out what happens. I have a good backpack that can carry a lot of stones. You could let another person ride your wheel. Maybe even @Marty Backe himself as he was able to ride the V10F without improper over loads. These tests would show if the only cause is the rider weight. There aren't enough hours in the day The bottom line is that someone of @maltocs stature should not have to deal with constant overloads. Even if it didn't overload with me riding it, that doesn't help him any in being able to enjoy his wheel. People heavier than @maltocs can ride these steep hills on Gotway wheels with no overloads. On paper the V10F should be able to perform in a similar fashion. Let's hope Inmotion fixes the firmware so that the wheel is rideable by the more typical Westerner. Edited July 2, 2018 by Marty Backe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 What does "overload" mean, exactly? Too high current or power draw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Just a thought....let's say you passed the V10f to Chuck Norris would it dare to overload... 2nd test, give the wheel to the big guy from a-team....I think he is Mr T...would the V10f date to overload on him? I bet it wouldn't so all just need to take acting classes and become either Mr T or Chuck N whatever is your preference. Problem solved...maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 22 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: What does "overload" mean, exactly? Too high current or power draw? You don't really expect anyone to know the answer to your question, do you Until very recently the Ride Mode in the Inmotion App was labeled: "A" or "B". And you want to know what they consider Overload? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Maybe @Bobwheel can inquire... 26 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: What does "overload" mean, exactly? Too high current or power draw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 They didn't include overload interpretation in the manual? They could just as well read out a random Windows stop code...if owner do not have access to warning message info what is the point in warning message in the first place? But the again we have seen a few videos of people not really understand morse/gotway beep codes either... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maltocs Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 1 hour ago, UniVehje said: I’ve actually already thought about doing that. Just to find out what happens. I have a good backpack that can carry a lot of stones. You could let another person ride your wheel. Maybe even @Marty Backe himself as he was able to ride the V10F without improper over loads. These tests would show if the only cause is the rider weight. In Finland, the average male weighs 181lb, In the USA 196 lbs (oddly, that's EXACTLY my weight). In China, it's 146lbs. But oddly enough, most of the times these things have a little asterisk that states the specs are for a 165lb rider. I can't claim false advertisement as it technically can do a 30% incline, it can probably handle a 260lb rider, and do the 55mi range, just not all at the same time. BUT the spec about 2000W sustained for long periods of time and peak much higher.... I dunno about that one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: You don't really expect anyone to know the answer to your question, do you Until very recently the Ride Mode in the Inmotion App was labeled: "A" or "B". And you want to know what they consider Overload? That begs the question, what mode was @maltocs using, and would ya'll try that again with the other mode? You must have been in default mode, since the app was unavailable. That scenery looks so nice, the view is incredible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, steve454 said: That begs the question, what mode was @maltocs using, and would ya'll try that again with the other mode? You must have been in default mode, since the app was unavailable. That scenery looks so nice, the view is incredible. I doubt @maltocs will try this ride again until Inmotion releases a fix that he proves works on other hills that he rides. It is a beautiful trail for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maltocs Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 4 hours ago, steve454 said: That begs the question, what mode was @maltocs using, and would ya'll try that again with the other mode? You must have been in default mode, since the app was unavailable. That scenery looks so nice, the view is incredible. I actually tried both modes. I was trying anything I could to avoid the overloads. I tried going slow to keep the wattage down, going faster, changing modes, quick zig-zags, nothing seemed to help. I was using latest android app, the one that actually shows COMFORT and CLASSIC modes and the firmware was the latest 2.2.6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 5 hours ago, Unventor said: They didn't include overload interpretation in the manual? They could just as well read out a random Windows stop code...if owner do not have access to warning message info what is the point in warning message in the first place? But the again we have seen a few videos of people not really understand morse/gotway beep codes either... They have this on the manual. But nothing about exact numbers. So far we don’t have definite answer what the wheel is measuring to do the tiltback. It doesn’t seem to be board temperature nor watts. There might be some other measurement, maybe current, amps, voltage, what have you. It probably automatically does that with certain number set in the code and we don’t yet even know whether that number is a typo, bug, too conservative or by design (meaning the wheel would absolutely break if you go beyond). Time or @bobwheel will tell. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 5 hours ago, maltocs said: In Finland, the average male weighs 181lb, In the USA 196 lbs (oddly, that's EXACTLY my weight). In China, it's 146lbs. But oddly enough, most of the times these things have a little asterisk that states the specs are for a 165lb rider. I can't claim false advertisement as it technically can do a 30% incline, it can probably handle a 260lb rider, and do the 55mi range, just not all at the same time. BUT the spec about 2000W sustained for long periods of time and peak much higher.... I dunno about that one. I found this video of at least someone was simulating heavier rider on a hill. This was on the pre-production models. I’m not sure who the owner of the video is but I remember @bobwheel releasing this here on the day of the announcement. But yeah, I would definitely expect any wheel to perform normally for someone your weight. You are perfectly normal build. I’m lucky I happen to be good size for this hobby and can ride this wheel where ever I want. My girlfriend (50 kg, not addicted to speed) just learned to ride on the Ninebot S2 and seems like she can actually get the whole 32 km range promised for that wheel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastmike Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) So we all agree that the V10 issue with 'overload' is linked to user's weight! @Bobwheel, can you please shed some light on the 'overload' calculation that makes the V10 unusable for people heavier than 85Kgs? I am sure that you have read most of the posts where people are facing repetitive 'overload' problems when other/smaller wheels don't. Battery level looks not to be involved in the process since it is happening to users having almost full battery as well. Original and latest firmware both show the issue. Can you please confirm that to be a software issue that can be solved by better firmware update and not a design issue? For now, as you can see in the posts here above on that page, the advertised specifications are obviously not met... Many thanks Edited July 3, 2018 by Fastmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 9 hours ago, Unventor said: They didn't include overload interpretation in the manual? They could just as well read out a random Windows stop code...if owner do not have access to warning message info what is the point in warning message in the first place? That would be hilarious! You ride your V10(F) up some hilly path, suddenly it tilts you back and blares at you: "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" 1 hour ago, Fastmike said: So we all agree that the V10 issue with 'overload' is linked to user's weight! That is to be expected. More weight (especially weight to be lifted up) means more power draw, current draw, etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
em1barns Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, UniVehje said: They have this on the manual. But nothing about exact numbers. So far we don’t have definite answer what the wheel is measuring to do the tiltback. It doesn’t seem to be board temperature nor watts. There might be some other measurement, maybe current, amps, voltage, what have you. It probably automatically does that with certain number set in the code and we don’t yet even know whether that number is a typo, bug, too conservative or by design (meaning the wheel would absolutely break if you go beyond). Time or @bobwheel will tell. Based on section 4.4, the overload protection would be based on battery temperature. Inmotion being the only maker to put all cells in a single pack, the proximity of the 80 cells and the shape of the battery may affect the overall battery temperature and its ability to cool down. If confirmed, this is bad news, as this would mean a design flaw that no firmware update could fix. Edited July 3, 2018 by em1barns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastmike Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 39 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: That is to be expected. More weight (especially weight to be lifted up) means more power draw, current draw, etc. Agreed, but we are far to the 120Kg of payload announced, under which the wheel should run with no problem, with obviously just a reduced range due to weight to carry. If they can't match that, they do have to say it! (e.g. max load is 85Kg in place of 120Kg) In Europe that is called 'lies in advertisement', but we are not there and I still believe that InMotion will resolve that by tuning their firmware. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 41 minutes ago, em1barns said: overload protection would be based on battery temperature I ruled that out as that would result in 15 min break automatically. That’s how I understand that section. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastmike Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, UniVehje said: I ruled that out as that would result in 15 min break automatically. That’s how I understand that section. My english is not good at all, but I believe that the statement is more about recommending the user to wait for 15mn before restarting the wheel, but I don't think the system will prevent you to try it earlier... BTW, do we know if the temp reflected in the app is the battery temp or the mainboard temp? Edited July 3, 2018 by Fastmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 The English on rhat manual is not very good. There could be ambiguity. I think the app says mainboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post meepmeepmayer Posted July 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Fastmike said: Agreed, but we are far to the 120Kg of payload announced, under which the wheel should run with no problem, with obviously just a reduced range due to weight to carry. If they can't match that, they do have to say it! (e.g. max load is 85Kg in place of 120Kg) In Europe that is called 'lies in advertisement', but we are not there and I still believe that InMotion will resolve that by tuning their firmware. ? This just shows that all manufacturer specs are bullshit and one should never believe them Which is only partly the manufacturers fault. For EUCs, these numbers make no sense. Wheels have no practical, rider-independent top speed, no max incline, no max range, no max payload, etc. (except some numbers where the wheel iterally breaks or can't do it). They just have a maximum power draw. What you use that power for, is up to the rider, whose weight (and speed) is so important. Just like with planes, where nobody says "Plane X has range Y" because it depends on the starting weight a lot. But people want to know "How fast does it go?", "How far does it go?" etc. because for other vehicles (=cars) these questions have fixed answers. For EUCs, not so much. Real specs should look like this: Max nominal power: ...W Max peak power: ...W And then it gets really, really complicated: 60kg rider: up to 45km/h, 80km* range (at 30km/h), up to 20% incline 120kg rider: up to 30km/h, 50km* range (at 30km/h), up to 10% incline (* environment temperature 25°C or higher) And that's the simplified version "Please visit our online calculator and enter these easy 27 different numbers, and then we give you a rough estimate* of what the wheel can do for you!" *Predicions not guaranteed Who would accept vague, widely spread specs like these? Nobody! So the manufacturers have to cheat like every other device does with its specs. "Up to" And because it varies so much, these are really best possible case "up to" numbers, not realistic ones, so essentially worthless. TLDR: Everyone here who believed the 62mile mile range statement for the V10F, I blame them equally for believing this ridiculous number as Inmotion for stating it. Maybe the V10 firmware will be fixed for the hill problem. But the general problem persists as long as specs are even released like this. I get pissed off whenever I see spec sheet of a new wheel with all the lies (the msuper X official top speed is 20km/h) Edited July 3, 2018 by meepmeepmayer 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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