New Inmotion V10 / V10F

[UniVehje]

9 hours ago, Bobwheel said:

We've paused the firmware because some valuable feedback from you guys, and we'll keep working on it for a week or two, and then @eddiemoy will help us to test it before we release it to public again.  For those who has upgraded already, don't worry, the firmware itself doesn't have any safety issues, and you can upgrade again when the next version is available, and also I'd like to  provide you some insights of the firmware 2.2.6.

The biggest difference that we can recognize is that the new firmware provide two modes which are A and B, actually after my communication with our team, I realized that it's weren't intended to be "Eco and Sport" modes, but more from technical aspect to provide these two options. The engineer team developed a new Motor Control approach which has adopted d into Mode A, and it brought lots of benefits. While the team was not so sure if customers like to get ride of the previous riding mode completely which is Mode B, so they provided these two options there, willing to hear more from customers. I know it's a late explanation, and we'll make sure to inform this kind of info in the future. Please refer to the photo below for the difference, and we appreciate to hear back more from you.

 

Firstly, thank you for this, @Bobwheel. This is really good info and it's great that you guys are presented on this forum. 

Some comments and questions: 

• Do you know what was behind that lower than before speed control? Intentional or a mistake? 
• Happy to hear you guys are taking the time and working more on the firmware. 
• Does this mean we are not able to revert to the previous firmware once the upgrade is done? The speed limit is quite low for us meanwhile...
• The alarm is now going off all the time! Can it be changed to shorter one. Now the beep goes 10 (!) times very loudly every time I go close to the limit, about 33 km/h. It gets a lot of attention and everyone here says that it is annoying. Just a shorter and more polite beep would be nice. I get the safety aspect of it, though. 

 

• I seem to get the modes mixed up. I was certain that B was more responsive and A felt like before. 
• Acceleration is the wrong word to use. V10F was always quick to get to the top speed once it gets going. Responsiveness or reactiveness is better word to describe that sluggish feel. I guess most 18" wheels would feel like that. My V10F felt less reactive than 16S when starting from 0. 
• Because the names are just A and B I might have mixed them up. Any names are better than those. 
• Also, sometimes I think I have changed the mode and when I go back to the app, it's different. I always make sure that I hear the sound and press the handle button. 
• I'm still somewhat sure that it was the B mode that felt better when breaking and sprinting. However, if B was the default mode, it was the other mode that felt better. Therefore it could have been A. Now I have to do a more thorough test and take notes. Interesting stuff. I'll try to compare the table to my experience. 
• I've now learned much about pedal softness and sensitivity. With mode B (I think) and pedals very soft on the slider, going up steep hills felt easier. This could affect the responsive feeling also. I could be wrong about this, still learning. 

[UniVehje]

10 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

I’ve been pushing mine pretty hard on the original FW .......lots of hills and I am a heavy rider 240 ~~ 250 depending on gear.  I have had spikes over 2000W but never had the “Overload” issue.  Guess I’ll push harder on a hill and see what I get. ??

 

This issue about over load tilt backs feels like beating a dead horse before we know what is going  on. There are some options: 

• Some wheels are defective and we don't know yet what it is and is it fixed in the next batch
• There is a software / firmware problem that will be fixed.
• Some riders are too heavy for the wheel and they shouldn't push hard on steep hills. 
• That behaviour is normal and happens because the V10F is just worse 2000w wheel than others. 
• The wheel could take more, but InMotion is at the moment too conservative in protecting the rider and avoiding cut outs. 
• Something that we haven't even thought about

We don't really know how many % of riders experience these. There are a lot of us who don't have that problem. The answer could be any one of that list. It would be easier to say if most of us had same behaviour. 

[that0n3guy]

I rode mine pretty hard the other night, bombed up hills and never got the 45deg tiltback.   At the end of the ride I looked at my max power and I got it up to 2750w.    I weigh 195... probably almost 210 loaded.   I have a decent amount of hills, the one in front of my house is impossible to drive up with even a little snow... 

I think its probably a firmware bug... 

[Stan Onymous]

12 minutes ago, that0n3guy said:

I think its probably a firmware bug

I think we are zeroing in on the problems. The ones with the original firmware and problems like the overheating may have gotten some bad firmware install and never completely downloaded or initiated the firmware. Maybe they got an unfinished updated firmware instead of the original firmware.

Clearly this V10 is a beast capable of much more than these Firmware snafus are showing us it is capable of now.

I would not , will not judge the V10 on these computer codes , yet.....

[soulson]

I (probably) figured out why I keep getting the 45 degree tiltback during acceleration. After work today, in a flat area with no cars or pedestrians, I experimented with accelerating while having the app open and tablet in my hand (not pocketed, like usual). Turns out, I'm drawing 2700+ W during acceleration. So it's probably tilting back to avoid blowing that 30A fuse – presumably it's a slow-blow.

[gaubong053]

I don't see any hard tiltback with the new firmware. But the early warning sound is really annoying at 21mph.

[FreeRide]

45 minutes ago, soulson said:

I (probably) figured out why I keep getting the 45 degree tiltback during acceleration. After work today, in a flat area with no cars or pedestrians, I experimented with accelerating while having the app open and tablet in my hand (not pocketed, like usual). Turns out, I'm drawing 2700+ W during acceleration. So it's probably tilting back to avoid blowing that 30A fuse – presumably it's a slow-blow.

Are you really drawing 2700W or does the wheel just think you are?  If you didn't have the issue before something is not right.

[Demargon]

I have lot of connection problems with the app. Only works sometimes if the Wheelog is started and GPS active.

Last use ends with a different configuration interface. Anyone know what is this?

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by Demargon

[eddiemoy]

2 hours ago, soulson said:

I (probably) figured out why I keep getting the 45 degree tiltback during acceleration. After work today, in a flat area with no cars or pedestrians, I experimented with accelerating while having the app open and tablet in my hand (not pocketed, like usual). Turns out, I'm drawing 2700+ W during acceleration. So it's probably tilting back to avoid blowing that 30A fuse – presumably it's a slow-blow.

The most I've ever gotten with leaning to a point that I almost overleaned on level surface was a little over 2kw.  But i'm light, 140lbs.  

[soulson]

@FreeRide my wheel has been this way since unboxing. I never updated my firmware – there is no "before".

@eddiemoy I weigh 205 lbs, but I find it quite easy (after riding the V10F for almost a month) to lean into what the app says is 2500W. The first week or so I wasn't doing it though. Seems like it's something I had to learn/gain the confidence for. It doesn't feel like overlean/dangerzone, which I've definitely experienced on other wheels

Edited June 27, 2018 by soulson

[Demargon]

I did a brief inspection of the power demand in the app detecting several peaks standing still. No matter if I rest on a pole or with one foot on floor. That's happens only with the pedal sensitivity at 100%. Seting it at 65%, A type, avoid these power spikes and keep it pretty stiff

Edited June 27, 2018 by Demargon

[maltocs]

Finally got a chance to ride the V10F with the new firmware using my Samsung S9. My observations:

- after the upgrade, the petal horizontal adjustment even while showing zero, seems to be forward. I had to put it at -2.0 or so to make it feel level or whatever it was before.

- the max speed doesn’t seem to stick. I keep moving the slider over to 25mph, but when i go to the app speedometer, it never shows anything higher than 14.xxx mph. Regardless of what it says, sometimes it’s lower than 14mph, sometimes it’s actually 14mph, sometimes higher. The max speed I was able to get was 22mph before the alarm goes off, not 25mph. (speed measurements based on Garmin GPS watch speed).

- I didn’t get the violent tilt back I’ve been reading about, same mild tailback as before, i just hear the speed alarm a lot more because it keeps resetting to 14mph max

- unit seems to be more nimble, turns better, and seems like it doesn’t OVERLOAD as much on hills. I did get it to overload and when looked at the max power it was only under 1000W and the main board temp was <50C. I do not remember if it was on Mode A or B as I kept switching between the two to see the differences.

- volume keeps on resetting to mute, not sure what triggers it.

- on the android app, the AR Camera feature turning on when I face it toward the sun and off when I put it on the table seems to be less consistent. Why can’t this AR mode be a switch? Heck, that’s how it works on Pokemon Go.

Overall, I would ride is better once fixed the pedal baseline angle to -2.0. But the speed and volume not sticking is beyond annoying. To make matters worse, with the new app version, i am UNABLE to go to the settings to fix things while the device is moving so i have to come to a complete stop to make any adjustments. 

[maltocs]

On 6/24/2018 at 7:57 AM, Stan Onymous said:

I love the idea of a 16” wheel with 18” stablity, and before the firmware upgrade thats what this was. If Marty is still taking those old worn out trails in the front of Griffith park, he has no idea what he is missing on the backside of the park near travel town and the Golf courses. It is truly where the V10F has shined for me taking any hill and not even worrying about 2” sand and deeper.

2

I can't believe you don't get any overloads on your V10F riding the north side of Griffith Park. I tried going from the Steamers Railroad parking lot up rattlesnake trail and taking all the UP forks I could to get to the top. I was going as slow as possible to keep the wattage down when I felt stress and it still overloaded. I'm 200lbs. Maybe with the new firmware it won't overload, i'll try again soon.

[scap]

Might be interesting to meet up with people that have different viewpoints on the wheel and its firmware to ride each others wheel to see if the difference is our expectations or the wheels are actually different. If anyone is in the Austin Area I could meet but it is more likely we will find two people with conflicting reports on one of the coasts. 

[Marty Backe]

25 minutes ago, maltocs said:

I can't believe you don't get any overloads on your V10F riding the north side of Griffith Park. I tried going from the Steamers Railroad parking lot up rattlesnake trail and taking all the UP forks I could to get to the top. I was going as slow as possible to keep the wattage down when I felt stress and it still overloaded. I'm 200lbs. Maybe with the new firmware it won't overload, i'll try again soon.

Bill is a lightweight guy (you probably have >50-pounds on him). This is why he has a hard time relating to some of the problems that other people have. Yet he'll also tell you that weight makes little difference in handling.

 

[maltocs]

12 hours ago, Stan Onymous said:

I have often taken 20-30 lbs in my backpack with car parts and other heavy stuff. My range has never varied. I actually carried a twenty pound frozen/ defrosting roast along with some beverages to my friends for their after Ramadan celebration 14 miles and still had over 50% power on my V10. It did take almost 5 hrs to recharge and rebalance.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Bill is a lightweight guy (you probably have >50-pounds on him). This is why he has a hard time relating to some of the problems that other people have. Yet he'll also tell you that weight makes little difference in handling.

 

Bill, let me know if you ever want to race up the hill. Of course you'll have to be carrying a roast, some car parts, and some beverages for when we reach the top. 

[Jpd]

3 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

The most I've ever gotten with leaning to a point that I almost overleaned on level surface was a little over 2kw.  But i'm light, 140lbs.  

Don’t know how accurate the new app is , but I’ve got 3600 on a hill climb. 

[Stan Onymous]

51 minutes ago, maltocs said:

can't believe you don't get any overloads on your V10F riding the north side of Griffith Park. I tried going from the Steamers Railroad parking lot up rattlesnake trail and taking all the UP forks I could to get to the top. I was going as slow as possible to keep the wattage down when I felt stress and it still overloaded. I'm 200lbs. Maybe with the new firmware it won't overload, i'll try again soon

I think its called balance but I may be wrong. I also dont press into the pedals hard with my feet. I stand on the pedals like I am shifting my weight to mimmick walking. When you walk, you can either softly calmly walk across fire, or you can stomp on it all the way across. Which do you think would burn you and put stress on your legs. I take the path of least resistance and charge up the hills letting the EUC lead me further. Can it take this? Sure and wants more!

Thats how I get up those hills and pass bikes while I do it.

[maltocs]

On 6/24/2018 at 7:24 AM, Stan Onymous said:

Turn your phone in a counter clockwise circle. That will bring up the camera anytime and remove it anytime

holy crap, that worked for me. well, at least it brings up the Camera mode. Thanks.

I still have to put the phone down to turn it off. (Galaxy S9). I still would actually have an on and off switch. 

[Stan Onymous]

9 minutes ago, maltocs said:

 

Bill, let me know if you ever want to race up the hill. Of course you'll have to be carrying a roast, some car parts, and some beverages for when we reach the top. 

You are on, donkey kong. I will wear a fat suit if thats what it takes to convince you. 

[maltocs]

10 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said:

I think its called balance but I may be wrong. I also dont press into the pedals hard with my feet. I stand on the pedals like I am shifting my weight to mimmick walking. When you walk, you can either softly calmly walk across fire, or you can stomp on it all the way across. Which do you think would burn you and put stress on your legs. I take the path of least resistance and charge up the hills letting the EUC lead me further. Can it take this? Sure and wants more!

Thats how I get up those hills and pass bikes while I do it.

I can do the walking motion on the MTen3, since it's so low, but with the V10F, it's so damn high tilting is not nearly as fluid since it's bouncing between my knees. Anyways, I'll try and see if it works for me. Thanks for the tip.

9 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said:

You are on, donkey kong. I will wear a fat suit if thats what it takes to convince you. 

Sure, if you're wearing the fat suit, i'll wait for a 100F day so you'll just pass out while sneak past you and your auto parts!

[Stan Onymous]

3 minutes ago, maltocs said:

I can do the walking motion on the MTen3, since it's so low, but with the V10F, it's so damn high tilting is not nearly as fluid since it's bouncing between my knees. Anyways, I'll try and see if it works for me. Thanks for the tip.

Sure, if you're wearing the fat suit, i'll wait for a 100F day so you'll just pass out while sneak past you and your auto parts!

That suit is going in a meat freezer before we race. ?  look, I will come to you and we can go up to that park near lake blvd. or over near rio seco. I will give you a head start and just casually ride up like I always do. If You beat me or I beat you, but I believe we will both learn a lot and have a ton of fun! There are a couple of hills that are challenging around there too. Unless you have a vintage subaru, my autoparts CV axels and brake hubs probably wont work for ya.

but if they do, we have to talk!

[Fastmike]

18 hours ago, UniVehje said:

This issue about over load tilt backs feels like beating a dead horse before we know what is going  on. There are some options: 

• Some wheels are defective and we don't know yet what it is and is it fixed in the next batch
• There is a software / firmware problem that will be fixed.
• Some riders are too heavy for the wheel and they shouldn't push hard on steep hills. 
• That behaviour is normal and happens because the V10F is just worse 2000w wheel than others. 
• The wheel could take more, but InMotion is at the moment too conservative in protecting the rider and avoiding cut outs. 
• Something that we haven't even thought about

We don't really know how many % of riders experience these. There are a lot of us who don't have that problem. The answer could be any one of that list. It would be easier to say if most of us had same behaviour. 

So InMotion had a problem with one of their vendors in regards to bearing on some motors.

May it be possible that they also have another problem with the same or other vendor with 'weak' motors?...

that will be bad if buying a V10 becomes a lottery with 50/50 to get a good or bad wheel.

From what we can read here, about half of the V10 users have no overload problem when the other half experiment that issue far too often even when riding with older generation wheels with really less powerful motors. Some even gave up and replace their V10 with another brand EUC...

Edited June 27, 2018 by Fastmike

[Demargon]

Info of app after doing a lot of monocross and beach sand course, the 52kmh was in a free spin after falling. No more power spikes ??

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Demargon

[Demargon]

This is what I mean with Monocross

some iM engineering can explain if that is possible with only a 460w peak?

the v10f is setup in A type and 65% foot sensitivity

Edited June 27, 2018 by Demargon