Help a Newbie Decide and Get Going!

[Fortaye]

Hi Everyone, first time posting, new to EUC's and new to electric rideables in general.

I first started off on a huge rabbit hole into electric skateboards.  That market is awash and rife with issues, but as I was getting close to selecting one, I saw a FabTrav video with the Gotway Monster in it, and I had to lift my jaw off my desk.  

That led me to a second rabbit hole into EUC's, which is a much smaller place by the way, and I think I've got my choice nailed.  I think I will go with a Tesla.  The reason being that it's the newest, and while I am not one to chase specs, the market is so new that every iteration of these vehicles seem to come with refinements to the design and technology.  Getting something new really matters when only earlier in the year, you weren't getting nearly as much bang for your dollar.

Here's what I need it for:

• Daily driver, needs to be very dependable for commuting.
• Rain friendly.  I don't plan on riding in crazy downpours but able to handle the mild Pacific Northwest moisture and rainfall.
• 20-30 mile range minimum.  Bonus range is just icing.

I don't love that the Tesla is 40+ pounds but I can live with it because the specs are beefy compared to what you get in an electric skateboard for the same money.  Here are my questions though:

• What do I need to know about cut-offs?  Is Gotway known as unsafe and Kingsong safer safe-ish in comparison?
• How does Gotway's customer service fare?  Do you get the support you need when things go wrong?
• In general, how often are you tinkering and finnicking just to get it to work?  I'm not talking about making improvements, I'm talking about after-market tinkering just to preserve basic functionality.
• Is there a seller I should avoid?  Is there a seller I should definitely use?  ewheels?

Thank you, and anything else you might advise for a newbie, I greatly appreciate it.

[stevedig]

1 hour ago, Fortaye said:

What do I need to know about cut-offs?  Is Gotway known as unsafe and Kingsong safer safe-ish in comparison?

safe? well... an euc is inherently an unsafe device. it's not if but when you fall off. all wheel mfg have their problems. king song is regarded as having a better build quality generally but they aren't immune to faults either.

1 hour ago, Fortaye said:

How does Gotway's customer service fare?  Do you get the support you need when things go wrong?

I had one board burn on one of my gotway wheels. they (gotway) saw a post about it on fb and they contacted me and shipped me a board for the wheel. it showed up a couple days after the one Dion @myfunwheel sent me to replace the failed board. I tried to stop them, but couldn't. They insisted. When I offered to ship it back they told me to keep it. Can't complain about GW customer service myself.

1 hour ago, Fortaye said:

In general, how often are you tinkering and finnicking just to get it to work?  I'm not talking about making improvements, I'm talking about after-market tinkering just to preserve basic functionality.

Not often at all. Only the one board failure in 3 years of riding various wheels. had to replace a trolley handle I mangled once as well.

1 hour ago, Fortaye said:

Is there a seller I should avoid?  Is there a seller I should definitely use?  ewheels?

I've bought from Amazon (my first IPS) from Dion @myfunwheel and from @Jason McNeil ewheels.com and both guys have been awesome. Even Amazon replaced the ips when the first one went pop within the first week of getting it. Fulfilled by Amazon is awesome. laf  ... The replacement is still going 3 years later.

[LanghamP]

The after service cost is built into the wheel if you buy local whereas new wheels with little support are 1/3 cheaper. You take your pick and you take your chances.

Quality control is highly variable although Gotway seems to be having lots of failures with the Tesla if we go by the number of people on this forum who've problems. However, my Inmotion V5F+ had pinched wires which bricked it whereas my Gotway MSuper V3s has been 100% reliable (except for a slightly sticky pedal cured with the smallest application of grease you ever saw, boohoohoo).

You are correct in that the technology is progressing so quickly one might as buy the latest wheel, warts and all. I'd go even further and say that these threads "which wheel should I buy" are valuable because the correct answer becomes the incorrect answer when given a few months.

I personally would go with the Gotway Tesla because while Gotway doesn't have high reliability they do have high ridability.

What does that mean? Let me give you an example. Yesterday I was teaching my GF to ride my KS14c, and then I spent a few seconds trying to figure out/find my Gotway, I thought I misplaced it, and then I realized I was on it. Gotways, over any of my other wheels, fit so well with me they might as well be telepathic mind control vehicles.

[Paddylaz]

2 hours ago, Fortaye said:

Hi Everyone, first time posting, new to EUC's and new to electric rideables in general.

I first started off on a huge rabbit hole into electric skateboards.  That market is awash and rife with issues, but as I was getting close to selecting one, I saw a FabTrav video with the Gotway Monster in it, and I had to lift my jaw off my desk.  

That led me to a second rabbit hole into EUC's, which is a much smaller place by the way, and I think I've got my choice nailed.  I think I will go with a Tesla.  The reason being that it's the newest, and while I am not one to chase specs, the market is so new that every iteration of these vehicles seem to come with refinements to the design and technology.  Getting something new really matters when only earlier in the year, you weren't getting nearly as much bang for your dollar.

Here's what I need it for:

• Daily driver, needs to be very dependable for commuting.
• Rain friendly.  I don't plan on riding in crazy downpours but able to handle the mild Pacific Northwest moisture and rainfall.
• 20-30 mile range minimum.  Bonus range is just icing.

I don't love that the Tesla is 40+ pounds but I can live with it because the specs are beefy compared to what you get in an electric skateboard for the same money.  Here are my questions though:

• What do I need to know about cut-offs?  Is Gotway known as unsafe and Kingsong safer safe-ish in comparison?
• How does Gotway's customer service fare?  Do you get the support you need when things go wrong?
• In general, how often are you tinkering and finnicking just to get it to work?  I'm not talking about making improvements, I'm talking about after-market tinkering just to preserve basic functionality.
• Is there a seller I should avoid?  Is there a seller I should definitely use?  ewheels?

Thank you, and anything else you might advise for a newbie, I greatly appreciate it.

You don't mention top speed in your preference list, so I assume it's not too important to you. Speed is the only reason I can think for choosing a Gotway. If someone suggests Gotway over other brands....it seems to be me more often than not it's someone who has a financial relationship with them.

The vast majority of cut-outs/problems reported on this forum seem to be from Gotway wheels. The top/most reliable sellers are Jason (ewheels) and Ian (speedyfeet). This ISN'T a phone - you may need spare parts/repair in the future. So look for the best overall 'investment' rather than just the cheapest bargain price you can find.

Go with Kingsong, Inmotion or (if you REALLY don't care about speed) Ninebot.

[meepmeepmayer]

Hi!

The Kingsong 16S has much better electronics, the Gotway Tesla has better almost everything else. If I had to make this choice now, I'd be frustrated, too. Tesla has the slight edge, in my opinion.

The 16S is very new, too, so don't think it's an old wheel! And if you really want reliability for your daily commute, that's more or less what the 16S is made for. If I hear "daily" and "commute" and "rain", maybe the 16S is the better choice? It's also a bit cheaper. Personally, in that case, I'd go with the 16S for the peace of mind.

Truth is, you really can't go wrong with both wheels. The Kingsong option focuses on safety and reliability and is quite fast already (35km/h), Gotway focuses on power and speed.

For a first time buyer of a new wheel, I'd strongly recommend buying from a reputable local (U.S.) dealer, for the support, should you need it. ewheels seems to be the standard choice unless you have someone very local (faster shipping etc.) and reputable.

(Also, standard question: what's your weight?)

[Fortaye]

9 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Hi!

The Kingsong 16S has much better electronics, the Gotway Tesla has better almost everything else. If I had to make this choice now, I'd be frustrated, too. Tesla has the slight edge, in my opinion.

The 16S is very new, too, so don't think it's an old wheel! And if you really want reliability for your daily commute, that's more or less what the 16S is made for. If I hear "daily" and "commute" and "rain", maybe the 16S is the better choice? It's also a bit cheaper. Personally, in that case, I'd go with the 16S for the peace of mind.

Truth is, you really can't go wrong with both wheels. The Kingsong option focuses on safety and reliability and is quite fast already (35km/h), Gotway focuses on power and speed.

For a first time buyer of a new wheel, I'd strongly recommend buying from a reputable local (U.S.) dealer, for the support, should you need it. ewheels seems to be the standard choice unless you have someone very local (faster shipping etc.) and reputable.

(Also, standard question: what's your weight?)

I'm now leaning heavily towards the KS 16S.  This is exactly the feedback I was looking for! Thank you everyone.

I'm 210 and usually carry 5-10lb in a backpack (I'm a doc student and they make us read crazy stuff).  I'm really close to pulling the trigger on the 16S

[Jason McNeil]

Quite by chance I was working on this Vendor Comparison Graphic this morning.
I'm flying out to LA in a couple hours to meet with Joey in order to take on the Tesla panel swap operation (oh, the bitter irony!), as well as doing some spot checks on the MTen3 tubeless tires.  

[meepmeepmayer]

Uh wow, up to 100kg on the wheel. Some thoughts:

• Not trying to confuse you, but higher weight may make it a liiitle bit more tending towards the Tesla (stronger motor). I don't know how the 16S behaves with this, may very well be that's absolutely no problem. Maybe someone else can chime in on that - 16S with heavy rider?
  On the other hand, heavy rider + possibly hilly terrain = I'd trust Kingsong electronics over Gotway's.
• You'll lose a lot of range with this weight, compared to 80kg rider e.g. EUCs are very weight sensitive. 30 miles might be a problem except in best conditions for both wheels.
• No offense or preaching intended, but unless you're just very tall or a bodybuilder, losing some weight is always a good idea

Disclaimer: I have neither a 16S or a Tesla or even ridden one. This is just gathered from reading here.

I'm personally still tending towards the 16S. Safer, and the Tesla offers not so many advantages you really need (unless you want to go 45km/h, I'd not go faster with 100kg on a Tesla).

But again, neither choice would be wrong.

Take your time and don't order to prematurely (it's tempting, you want one of these things, NOW!!!) until you feel comfortable making the choice.

Side idea: what do you think of the Kingsong 18S or the upcoming 18L (though tbh the latter is too long - March 2018 or so - to wait for)?

[US69]

@Fortaye

The most important words i...again „i“...get from your post, is that you want a reliable commuter wheel!

 

When you go for reliability the answer to your question should be the KS16S....it is, with its super stable trolley, one of the best commuter wheels on the market! Speed is absolutely enough, as all experienced drivers will tell you that all over 35kmh is not comfortable any more and can only be used for a small adrenaline shot :-)

The only advantage i would give to the GW Tesla is more speed...on all other values it is loosing to the KS...and i am saying that even as i recently bought a Tesla.

But i would take my time, and read into it...when you found what you like, i would advise to talk to ewheels.com, known as one of the most reliables source for EUCs in the states! You can also read that out of many threads here!

Welcome...and have fun!

[Chriull]

53 minutes ago, Fortaye said:

I'm now leaning heavily towards the KS 16S.  This is exactly the feedback I was looking for! Thank you everyone.

I'm 210 and usually carry 5-10lb in a backpack (I'm a doc student and they make us read crazy stuff).  I'm really close to pulling the trigger on the 16S

This with your requirement

3 hours ago, Fortaye said:

 

• 20-30 mile range minimum.  Bonus range is just icing.

 

could get a bit tight. With ~90 kg i'll get something between 30 to 40 km in hilly terrain (much inclines) with my ks16s.

If you'r trip is in flat terrain 30 miles are no prob for the ks16s - and still some surplus.

You should in any case also look for the big wheels like msuper v3s+ and monster from gotway. They'll give you the range with ease and could be more comfortable for long commutes? @Marty Backe?

3 hours ago, Fortaye said:

 

I first started off on a huge rabbit hole into electric skateboards.  That market is awash and rife with issues, 

I'm not sure if i understand the meaning as non native english speaker, but i'd say EUCs are no really perfectly matured thing either...

Not compared to cars, but maybe compared to e-skateboards?

Quote

  I think I will go with a Tesla. 

Just Fyi, if you've not seen this topic till now:

 

Quote

 

• Daily driver, needs to be very dependable for commuting.

My advice: then get at least two EUCs!

Quote

•  
• 20-30 mile range minimum.  Bonus range is just icing.

With this also in a posting above mentioned inmotion/ninebots are out of spec.

Ninebot could release a new wheel (Z) maybe not too far in the future.

Quote

 

• What do I need to know about cut-offs?  Is Gotway known as unsafe and Kingsong safer safe-ish in comparison?

"Real" Cut offs could be about the same. Some vendor stats where published here and there are some more returns/broken mainboards with gotways, but imho not as much to be a "deal-breaker". There where also some reports about ks16s with bad motherboards here lately...

 

Quote

• How does Gotway's customer service fare?  Do you get the support you need when things go wrong?
• In general, how often are you tinkering and finnicking just to get it to work?  I'm not talking about making improvements, I'm talking about after-market tinkering just to preserve basic functionality.
• Is there a seller I should avoid?  Is there a seller I should definitely use?  ewheels?

 

@Jason McNeil (ewheels) has a great reputation and perfect feedback here. Seems like a strong reseller like him also guarantees you great gotway customers service!

Tinkering: if one has bad luck maybe a mainboard has to be replaced, with very much bad luck a motor. But once they drive (from beginning without the bad luck) no tinkering is normaly needed...

[US69]

47 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

Quite by chance I was working on this Vendor Comparison Graphic this morning.
I'm flying out to LA in a couple hours to meet with Joey in order to take on the Tesla panel swap operation (oh, the bitter irony!), as well as doing some spot checks on the MTen3 tubeless tires.  

Btw.:

Great comparison! There are not much vendors that are THAT honest and transparent! Thanks for that!

[Marty Backe]

11 minutes ago, Chriull said:

<snip>

You should in any case also look for the big wheels like msuper v3s+ and monster from gotway. They'll give you the range with ease and could be more comfortable for long commutes? @Marty Backe?

<snip>

@Fortaye, I probably wouldn't suggest the Monster for you, but please don't forget the 1300wh or 1600wh ACM. This is a compact 16-inch wheel (compared to the MSuper or Monster) that can carry even a heavy person at least 40 miles. The 84-volt ACM remains my favorite all around wheel.

[em1barns]

58 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

Quite by chance I was working on this Vendor Comparison Graphic this morning.
I'm flying out to LA in a couple hours to meet with Joey in order to take on the Tesla panel swap operation (oh, the bitter irony!), as well as doing some spot checks on the MTen3 tubeless tires.  

Last INMOTION control board stats you provided was 0.4% failure rate for v8. How did this raise tenfold?

[Marty Backe]

4 hours ago, Fortaye said:

Hi Everyone, first time posting, new to EUC's and new to electric rideables in general.

I first started off on a huge rabbit hole into electric skateboards.  That market is awash and rife with issues, but as I was getting close to selecting one, I saw a FabTrav video with the Gotway Monster in it, and I had to lift my jaw off my desk.  

That led me to a second rabbit hole into EUC's, which is a much smaller place by the way, and I think I've got my choice nailed.  I think I will go with a Tesla.  The reason being that it's the newest, and while I am not one to chase specs, the market is so new that every iteration of these vehicles seem to come with refinements to the design and technology.  Getting something new really matters when only earlier in the year, you weren't getting nearly as much bang for your dollar.

Here's what I need it for:

• Daily driver, needs to be very dependable for commuting.
• Rain friendly.  I don't plan on riding in crazy downpours but able to handle the mild Pacific Northwest moisture and rainfall.
• 20-30 mile range minimum.  Bonus range is just icing.

I don't love that the Tesla is 40+ pounds but I can live with it because the specs are beefy compared to what you get in an electric skateboard for the same money.  Here are my questions though:

• What do I need to know about cut-offs?  Is Gotway known as unsafe and Kingsong safer safe-ish in comparison?
• How does Gotway's customer service fare?  Do you get the support you need when things go wrong?
• In general, how often are you tinkering and finnicking just to get it to work?  I'm not talking about making improvements, I'm talking about after-market tinkering just to preserve basic functionality.
• Is there a seller I should avoid?  Is there a seller I should definitely use?  ewheels?

Thank you, and anything else you might advise for a newbie, I greatly appreciate it.

Welcome 

For utmost reliability, KingSong is probably the best choice. That being said, Gotway wheels aren't exactly unreliable, but there's no doubt they can be more finicky. I like to compare Gotway to Harley-Davidson motorcycles of the pre-80's variety. They were very desirable, but known to require more maintenance than most. BMW had that reputation too I believe.

Gotway continues to push the envelop and seems to always be generating excitement with their new wheels. KingSong makes great products (I own and love my KS14S), but you tend not to lay awake at night anticipating the delivery of your new KingSong wheel.

Gotway puts out the ACM, a ground breaking wheel. Then they release the follow-on to their ground breaking MSuper with the MSuper V3. The Monster is released - incredible. No one saw that coming. The Mten3 is released, causing great excitement (by me anyway ). Now the Tesla. Meanwhile KingSong is working hard on a form-factor competitor to the MSuper V3, to be released 1-1/2 years later. Yawn  But again, super quality wheels, but not excitement inducing IMHO.

There are certainly quality dealers within the United States, but right now I don't think that there are any truly competitive dealers to EWheels. The breadth of their selection, aggressive pricing, and outstanding customer service makes @Jason McNeil's business hard not to recommend. 

Customer service is provided by your dealer. There is essentially no manufacturer customer service for <pick your wheel>.  This is an endless source for jokes on the Forum.

We are still early days with EUCs. You are an early adopter. Go into your purchase with both eyes wide open, knowing that there is a potential for a rocky road. But we are here and can attest to the incredible experiences that these wheels give us. Most of us have had various problems with the wheels, but we get through it and ride another day 

I want to say that I believe Gotway wheels can be safer than KingSong wheels (my opinion) if configured properly. But you are an adult, and if you want to disengage the safety mechanisms and push the wheel to its limits (which only Gotway allows), then Gotway wheels are more susceptible to cut-outs. Of the multitude of Gotway wheels that I've ridden over thousands of miles, I've only had one cut-out, and that was due to a firmware issue with a newly released batch of wheels.

This all being said, the KS16S is a fantastic, reliable, and fun wheel. The only reason that I don't own one is my wife would kill me if I bring another wheel into the house 

[Fortaye]

Super enlightening discussion.  Thank you all.

Now I'm going back and forth!  Yes, I care a lot about reliability, but from what I'm understanding, it's not specifically that Gotway is just outright a terrrible company, it's that they give a little bit of freedom (such as not limiting the speed) which CAN be unsafe, but if you respect the ride, you can ride relatively safely.  

Yes, it's good perspective that we are all early adopters and we are part of that movement.  I'm ok with a fair amount of tinkering, I just don't want to spend all my days and nights on my EUC when I should be focused on finishing my dissertation proposal!

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, Fortaye said:

Super enlightening discussion.  Thank you all.

Now I'm going back and forth!  Yes, I care a lot about reliability, but from what I'm understanding, it's not specifically that Gotway is just outright a terrrible company, it's that they give a little bit of freedom (such as not limiting the speed) which CAN be unsafe, but if you respect the ride, you can ride relatively safely.  

Yes, it's good perspective that we are all early adopters and we are part of that movement.  I'm ok with a fair amount of tinkering, I just don't want to spend all my days and nights on my EUC when I should be focused on finishing my dissertation proposal!

In the grand scheme of things, I've spent very little time working on my wheels. I will say that I'm probably way too familiar with the inside of Gotway wheels than I need to be. In contrast, I have never opened a KingSong wheel (I've owned two). Then again I've owned a lot of Gotway wheels and I ride them hard sometimes. So I'm often probing the outer edges of their reliability and design. I've personally witnessed two KingSong wheels cut-out on their users due to blown fuses, so again, KingSong is not totally immune. Many people use their wheels in more mellow conditions and never have any problems.

I put my money where my mouth is and continue to purchase Gotway wheels (and KingSong). Believe me, if I thought they were junk or I was placing my life at risk by using them, I would not buy Gotway. I have no qualms about hitting them hard when they screw up, and continue to highlight problem areas, as many others on the Forum do. But I think that I have perspective enough to be considered objective in my evaluations of the various wheels (except for the Mten3 - everyone needs to buy one of those ).

[stevedig]

Marty is going to change his name while keeping his initials intact: MTen3 Backe. 

We're gona call him Trey for short.

[The Fat Unicyclist]

My take, as a heavier rider... larger wheel diameters are.

I am currently trying to decide between the MSuper and KS18L - the secret agenda being to decide that I can't decide and getting both. 

The key point being the advantage that an 18" wheel gives a fat unicyclist. 

[Fortaye]

Just pulled the trigger on the Gotway Tesla.  Pretty excited!

[em1barns]

16 hours ago, em1barns said:

Last INMOTION control board stats you provided was 0.4% failure rate for v8. How did this raise tenfold?

Found the original thread: 

 

Quote: « the  v8 control board is rock solid », only 1 failure instance in 230 wheels.

So has there been bad batches following that led to this much higher failure rate in your ad?

[meepmeepmayer]

2 hours ago, Fortaye said:

Just pulled the trigger on the Gotway Tesla.  Pretty excited!

Let us know how it goes! What made you choose the Tesla in the end?

Now the checking-the-shipping-status-every-5-mins begins, enjoy it while it lasts

Also, get at least wrist guards (and if you commute around any cars, a helmet) as minimum protection.

[Fortaye]

Yeah I'm looking into helmet and wrist guards now. Maybe even knee and elbow pads when I get comfortable and push this thing to its limits.

For now, I'll be holding my bike lights in hand and on my backpack but if people have good lighting solutions, I'm open to hearing them.

[mezzanine]

LOL Inmotion failure rate:  2-4%

Gotway failure rate: 3-5% 

 

[outcast00096]

@Fortaye. We live in the same area. I have a KS18s. I get about 10 miles for every 30% battery in Beaverton due to hills. It is extremely difficult to see potholes in the ground due to leaves on the ground. Streets in Portland have hidden potholes at night that you can't see (I ride with a bunch of OneWheelers at night in downtown Portland and its surprising at times). I'd recommend going slowly at night till you know your route like the back of your hand.

[US69]

1 hour ago, outcast00096 said:

@Fortaye. We live in the same area. I have a KS18s. I get about 10 miles for every 30% battery in Beaverton due to hills. It is extremely difficult to see potholes in the ground due to leaves on the ground. Streets in Portland have hidden potholes at night that you can't see (I ride with a bunch of OneWheelers at night in downtown Portland and its surprising at times). I'd recommend going slowly at night till you know your route like the back of your hand.

Which 18S do you have? 840wh, 1360wh or 1680wh?