Ninebot One Z : Z6-Z8-Z10

[Marcglider]

10 minutes ago, US69 said:

I am just jumping between MSX and Z10

Narrow it down... you want speed and range... MSX

you want COOL and totally different... Z10

SEE... Easy... LOL

[Mono]

2 hours ago, EZhel said:

That probably is, if it's not:  a) heavy b) kicking back in fast turns c) wobbling

I didn't mean control on a straight flat surface. A heavy wheel kicking back just below my knees I find much more annoying than close to my feet. A high shell gives also less leeway to play with wheel positioning to (re)gain control. To a certain extend that's probably just riders preference, so low contact points is mine.

[Toshio Uemura]

3 hours ago, Toshio Uemura said:

and the pedals low.

? Low pedals?????  

Yes, the pedals are lower than the V10 but far from “low” (as in the ACM or Tesla or E+) See for yourself!

I am not sure anymore, if we are talking about the same “Z” here. Or is this the result of tooooo much ? Wodka? ??

 

[Mono]

1 hour ago, US69 said:

best Euc? 995wh? 45kmh max? at 2000 bucks? Alone this disqualifies it from such a „Best...“ statement

only if you think more and bigger is always better. The best car is neither the car with the largest range, nor is it the fastest car. Also, best doesn't usually refer to best-value-for-the-money, but to best as best as best.

[mezzanine]

6 minutes ago, Mono said:

only if you think more and bigger is always better. The best car is neither the car with the largest range, nor is it the fastest car. Also, best doesn't usually refer to best-value-for-the-money, but to best as best as best.

Yeah, I blame it partially on the Gotway culture on this forum.  No doubt that range and speed are important factors, but it drives me nuts that they're perceived as the driving factors in EUC development.  Don't get me wrong; during these first few years of their existence, EUCs have been underpowered and Gotway was critical to expanding the market by identifying the need for more power.  The problem is that we're passed that point and most EUCs have enough range and speed now.  The bottleneck now is more safety and quality.  

I don't personally want to see a wheel that goes 100km/h.  I want to see a wheel that can absorb potholes.  

[houseofjob]

 

Kinda hilarious how people still talk sh*t about the Z, even after the first sight-unseen speculations were debunked. 

Also hilarious how the forum still gets riled up by newbie posters who have no vetting. 

 

Why would an EUC enthusiast want the EUC companies all to create basically the same wheel? 

And why would any EUC rider assume they've mastered riding if the EUC companies never created different, diverse body size / tire size wheels to challenge the rider paradigms? 

 

Hmmmmm......

 

[Toshio Uemura]

59 minutes ago, Marcglider said:

Narrow it down... you want speed and range... MSX

you want COOL and totally different... Z10

SEE... Easy... LOL

Just one note to the “speed and range” thing: I wonder how many riders cruise over 40 km/h and over 50 km of range on a daily basis? 

There may be a handful, BUT if you NEED such speeds and such ranges, you might want to check for a different mode of transportation (bus!, subway!) otherwise you are statistically bound for injuries (with or without protective gear!)

It’s one thing to psychologically know that you COULD go 80 km at 45+ km/h, instead of 40/50 km at 40+ km/h, but in fact most of us ACTUALLY TRAVEL 30+ for less than 60 km every day. Do we nodd?!

So for me it stays a choice of which wheel gives you the most fun and satisfaction or which is more challenging or on which you feel most safe or which is best for doing tricks or which is most convenient for your transportation pattern and needs. So it is wonderful to have such a variety of wheels to choose from. I just wish there were rentals, so newbies could really try them for a while to decide before spending the big bucks.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Toshio Uemura

[Marcglider]

6 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Kinda hilarious how people still talk sh*t about the Z, even after the first sight-unseen speculations were debunked. 

Also hilarious how the forum still gets riled up by newbie posters who have no vetting. 

 

Why would an EUC enthusiast want the EUC companies all to create basically the same wheel? 

And why would any EUC rider assume they've mastered riding if the EUC companies never created different, diverse body size / tire size wheels to challenge the rider paradigms? 

 

Hmmmmm......

Thanks Chris (reality ck)... There is not a lot I miss about living in NY but maybe there is something in the air up there... 

[Marcglider]

7 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

Just one note to the “speed and range” thing: I wonder how many riders cruise over 40 km/h and over 50 km of range on a daily basis? 

I do not consider the last 20% of my battery life in my range calculations... I ABSOLUTELY hate hearing beeping and at the end of a nice ride, to be limited on my speed is just down right annoying, at least for me... I went on a ride with @JES 2 weeks ago, he was on his 1300wh super... we did 48 miles, the last 7 miles for me were Painful listening to his wheel beeping... I was tempted to just leave him behind (I was on my ACM with 1600wh)

[Toshio Uemura]

18 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Why would an EUC enthusiast want the EUC companies all to create basically the same wheel? 

Wisdom! Your words are pure wisdom ... ??

[Toshio Uemura]

5 minutes ago, Marcglider said:

I do not consider the last 20% of my battery life in my range calculations... I ABSOLUTELY hate hearing beeping and at the end of a nice ride, to be limited on my speed is just down right annoying, at least for me... I went on a ride with @JES 2 weeks ago, he was on his 1300wh super... we did 48 miles, the last 7 miles for me were Painful listening to his wheel beeping... I was tempted to just leave him behind (I was on my ACM with 1600wh)

No discussion! If you DO such distances more then 3 times a year ....

... you definitely need to buy yourself an MSX or a Monster ...

....

.....

.... in addition to your Z10 ... ? 

(I have my MSuper V3s+ for such occasions and am now looking into buying me a 100V Monster just to stay on the safe side ... BUT

these will definitely gather some dust in the course of a year and never replace my Z10. It’s just too much fun! ) ? 

[Ziiten]

6 hours ago, EZhel said:

I'll sum up the reviews from various riders in my country, because, well, they differ a lot from what's being posted in this thread.

The Z is built around two design decisions - wide tire with motor and battery inside the rim and under-60V current.

Relatively low voltage made engineers use a much heavier motor for higher amperage to output the required power. I haven't heard of any problems for GotWay or KingSong in any country because of 84V. Also high amperage required a huge radiator to dissipate heat. This design decision made the Z much heavier than it could have been.

Packing battery and controller almost inside the wheel allowed the engineers to make the body low, and the pedals low. No idea what they tried to achieve with that, but low body makes controlling the heavy wheel a much harder task that it should've been, while low pedals make ppl feel like they're riding a 14" wheel.

Wide tire looks like it can take offroad well, but it's completely flat, very hard, coupled with low body and low pedals that doesn't make a good offroad experience.

The wide tire is too sensitive to turn, too hard to lean into the turn at decent speed, if inflated - too stiff to absorb anything, if deflated - wobbles constantly and gives a "twocycle" feel while not giving much better absorbtion. It's also unique, so replacing it with something else won't be possible most probably.

Generally everyone here says that riding the Z is counter-intuitive and requires getting used to, "special motorcycle-like technique".

The overall question is, what do those design decisions give to rider when he gets used to the wheel? Nothing, really. Everything the Z does, can be done with 18L/S/MSuperX at higher speed and more comfortably, without any "special techniques".

Do those design decisions give some strong point the the wheel, for example, is it a good offroad wheel? It isn't - because of low wide pedals,  insufficient control of low body and bad absorbtion of all kinds of bumps. Is it a good wheel for fast cruising? It's not because it's hard to turn at decent speed and behaves weirdly at hard stopping. Is it good for moving around the city? It's not, being very heavy and uncomfortable to be moved up/down the elevations with trolley handle. For all its weight Z10 has only a medium battery.

It looks cool and is really well made, but its design doesn't work together well in a system, neither does it give any advantages to justify all the limitations of that design.

I am not sure what version of the Z you test rode but as I said in one previous reply to your post it would be nice to read or see your review of the wheel once you and the other owners of the wheel received it and had some experience with it. I am a EUC-newbie and I am pretty happy with it. Shins bruised and ankles with cuts from the foot plates.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Ziiten

[Marcglider]

1 minute ago, Toshio Uemura said:

No discussion! If you DO such distances more then 3 times a year ....

... you definitely need to buy yourself an MSX or a Monster ...

....

.....

.... in addition to your Z10 ... ? 

(I have my MSuper V3s+ for such occasions and am now looking into buying me a 100V Monster just to stay on the safe side ... BUT

these will definitely gather some dust in the course of a year and never replace my Z10. It’s just too much fun! ) ? 

I will end up with a MSX... AND.... My Z just got delivered... on the charger right now and I am going to Slime the tire while I wait 

[Ziiten]

1 minute ago, Marcglider said:

I will end up with a MSX... AND.... My Z just got delivered... on the charger right now and I am going to Slime the tire while I wait 

Great, let us know your first impressions.

[Toshio Uemura]

5 minutes ago, Marcglider said:

I will end up with a MSX... AND.... My Z just got delivered... on the charger right now and I am going to Slime the tire while I wait 

Attaboy !!!     ??

Edited September 1, 2018 by Toshio Uemura

[Ziiten]

1 minute ago, Toshio Uemura said:

Attaboy   ??

6 minutes ago, Marcglider said:

I will end up with a MSX... AND.... My Z just got delivered... on the charger right now and I am going to Slime the tire while I wait 

In case you are putting on the paddings, I recommend adding some extra adhesive to them. At least mine don't stick properly. And they are also torn already from excessive hits.

[Marcglider]

1 minute ago, Ziiten said:

In case you are putting on the paddings, I recommend adding some extra adhesive to them. At least mine don't stick properly. And they are also torn already from excessive hits.

STAYIN NAKED... at least for now... this thing looks MEAN... worth the 2 grand just lookin at it in my living room... LOL 

[steve454]

5 hours ago, EZhel said:

@Marcglider I've no idea what the best buy is currenly. The KS18XL 2000Wh comes out late autumn, it may be great of may have its own set of issues, no way to know before it arrives.

ps @Toshio Uemura here's a review after a week of riding the Z6 (needs google translation).

That's the first I've heard of a new Kingsong coming out this autumn.  That's interesting.  

[Toshio Uemura]

22 minutes ago, Ziiten said:

Great, let us know your first impressions.

... and ... and ... and ... just for the sake of statistics:

please keep a tally sheet over the next 6 months, which wheel you are riding day by day.

Might become an eye-opener for some (or me! ?)

Edited September 1, 2018 by Toshio Uemura

[Toshio Uemura]

4 minutes ago, Marcglider said:

STAYIN NAKED... at least for now... this thing looks MEAN... worth the 2 grand just lookin at it in my living room... LOL 

Think of the future, dude! You have it a bit “revised beautiful” for the first weeks, but beautiful for the rest of your (sorry: its!) life. ? 

And yes clean the surface sorrowly with alcohol and attach some extra adhesives. Your first trip into dust and sand will let the paddings come off!

[Toshio Uemura]

1 hour ago, Mono said:

best as best as best.

... or best as believed as best!

After all it’s a matter of perception, isn’t it?!  It all belongs to YOU. ? 

[mezzanine]

7 hours ago, EZhel said:

I'll sum up the reviews from various riders in my country, because, well, they differ a lot from what's being posted in this thread.

The Z is built around two design decisions - wide tire with motor and battery inside the rim and under-60V current.

Relatively low voltage made engineers use a much heavier motor for higher amperage to output the required power. I haven't heard of any problems for GotWay or KingSong in any country because of 84V. Also high amperage required a huge radiator to dissipate heat. This design decision made the Z much heavier than it could have been.

Packing battery and controller almost inside the wheel allowed the engineers to make the body low, and the pedals low. No idea what they tried to achieve with that, but low body makes controlling the heavy wheel a much harder task that it should've been, while low pedals make ppl feel like they're riding a 14" wheel.

Wide tire looks like it can take offroad well, but it's completely flat, very hard, coupled with low body and low pedals that doesn't make a good offroad experience.

The wide tire is too sensitive to turn, too hard to lean into the turn at decent speed, if inflated - too stiff to absorb anything, if deflated - wobbles constantly and gives a "twocycle" feel while not giving much better absorbtion. It's also unique, so replacing it with something else won't be possible most probably.

Generally everyone here says that riding the Z is counter-intuitive and requires getting used to, "special motorcycle-like technique".

The overall question is, what do those design decisions give to rider when he gets used to the wheel? Nothing, really. Everything the Z does, can be done with 18L/S/MSuperX at higher speed and more comfortably, without any "special techniques".

Do those design decisions give some strong point the the wheel, for example, is it a good offroad wheel? It isn't - because of low wide pedals,  insufficient control of low body and bad absorbtion of all kinds of bumps. Is it a good wheel for fast cruising? It's not because it's hard to turn at decent speed and behaves weirdly at hard stopping. Is it good for moving around the city? It's not, being very heavy and uncomfortable to be moved up/down the elevations with trolley handle. For all its weight Z10 has only a medium battery.

It looks cool and is really well made, but its design doesn't work together well in a system, neither does it give any advantages to justify all the limitations of that design.

Nice post.  I wondered about why the Z is so heavy and you answered it with your observation about the motor weight.  

I started EUCing last year around this time and bought a V8 and KS18S and wondered if I would quickly watch them become obsolete because of all the new wheels that were just over the horizon.  Instead, I feel happy with those wheels even in comparison to a lot of the newer wheels that are now available.  I'm not convinced increased specs like motor wattage always translate into a better riding experience.  For example, a V8 goes 35km/h and a 16S with a 50% more powerful motor goes 35km/h.  

I had high hopes for the wide tire of the Z.  My impression is that it's not all I hoped it would be.  Hearing the Msuper X is actually a smoother ride was very disappointing.  

I was sure that the Z would be next wheel, but am more interested in pure city wheels the longer I ride.  My next wheel probably isn't out yet.  I haven't been impressed enough with the recent releases to feel like they'd be a big enough upgrade to justify the cost.  

[Toshio Uemura]

55 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

had high hopes for the wide tire of the Z. 

Me too. And IMHO they were more than fulfilled. If you want smooth, why don’t you buy yourself a flying carpet. ? 

[Mono]

2 hours ago, mezzanine said:

I had high hopes for the wide tire of the Z.  My impression is that it's not all I hoped it would be.  Hearing the Msuper X is actually a smoother ride was very disappointing.  

For comfort it is more the height which counts, not the width. The Z6/8/10 tire is probably designed for vehicles which have suspension and a cushioned seat. Hence in the end it is not a surprise that it doesn't fit the bill well.

[Mono]

21 hours ago, Toshio Uemura said:

... or best as believed as best!

After all it’s a matter of perception, isn’t it?!  It all belongs to YOU. ? 

"best" may partly also be a matter of preference and used criteria, no doubt.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Mono