ATGATT - Who does / doesn't?

[Scully]

Just curious to know, we all know we 'should' wear safety gear - but as a percentage of us, who actually does? 

From my experience, if I was to lose control of the the wheel (in the earlier days of learning) it bounces off up the street - I've never actually come off and injured myself. 
If I know I'm off to the BMX track I'll wear gloves, but other than that, I don't tend to bother. 

Funny really, as I wouldn't go out on my road bike without a helmet on. 

[Mono]

25 minutes ago, Scully said:

Just curious to know, we all know we 'should' wear safety gear

I actually don't know this  I also don't know I should wear safety gear when I go running, do you? I use the same protection gear for EUCing and for running, as for me it is precisely the same speed range, between 5km/h and (rarely) 25km/h. So it is the same protection gear. 

How about wearing safety gear as a pedestrian or when driving a car? In these two cases I believe we have quite good evidence that wearing a helmet is about as effective as for cycling in case of an accident, IIRC.

25 minutes ago, Scully said:

Funny really, as I wouldn't go out on my road bike without a helmet on. 

To some extend it is about habits. On the other hand, I assume that you reach somewhat larger speeds with your bike which would indeed justify the habit to some extend. 

[Laenas]

I think it's worth it to clarify what this means - for the people who are new to this sport

ATGATT = All The Gear, All The Time

I'm new to this, so I do try to wear my gear at all times. But I can see it becoming less of a habit the more I learn, and then reconsider as soon as my body meets the asphalt for the first time.

The same quote applies from the motorcycle world: It's not a matter of IF you will fall, but of WHEN.

[who_the]

After a couple of thousand miles in city traffic, and plenty of spills, a few of them quite serious, I simply never ride without gloves capable of protecting my hands in a fall. Next is a helmet, I always wear one when riding among cars, which is probably 95 percent of my riding. After the helmet, the piece of gear I should wear is a left elbow pad; I've managed to skin, bruise, and otherwise bang up my left elbow during each of my more serious falls. Yet I rarely if ever pad my elbow. 

[Mono]

Do you have an explanation why it's consistently the left elbow but never the right one?

[OliverH]

Helmet, no question. If there would be some kind of skater pants/ trousers with integrated protection I would wear it. This standard knee/ elbow protection known from inline skates are no option, no user experience. 

[who_the]

40 minutes ago, Mono said:

Do you have an explanation why it's consistently the left elbow but never the right one?

None I can pinpoint, though it seems I reach to brace my fall first with my left hand, even though I am generally right-handed. 

[Jose Otal]

58 minutes ago, who_the said:

Después de un par de miles de millas en el tráfico urbano, y un montón de derrames, algunos de ellos muy graves, simplemente Nunca viaje sin guantes capaces de proteger las manos en una caída. El siguiente es un casco, siempre llevo uno al montar entre los coches, que es probablemente el 95 por ciento de mi pilotaje. Después de que el casco, la pieza de arte que debería llevar es una almohadilla para el codo izquierdo; Me las he arreglado para la piel, moretones, y de otra manera bang hasta el codo izquierdo durante cada uno de mis más graves caídas. Sin embargo, rara vez, si alguna vez la almohadilla de mi codo. 

I think the same, only when I want to go on dirt roads I put the complete equipment, 1 gloves, 2 helmet, 3 elbow pads, 4 knee pads

 

[Gormash]

I always, ALWAYS wear the full gear. No matter what the weather, light or distance.
This include a helmet, kneepads, elbow pads and wrist protectors (the kind skateboarders use). If it's dark outside (like it is during winter) I also don a reflex-vest with a small led-light on each shoulder.

I've been riding for little over 6 moths now, feeling really comfortable at riding both in thick masses of people as well as offroad, and never ride out without my gear. Nope, not even for that very short trip to the grocery store and back again.

[Smoother]

I can't take this survey because wrist guards are not included. Sorry, 

[Mono]

One could assume that gloves stands for "wrist guards or gloves", which is possibly what was meant originally.

[JimB]

I always wear a helmet.  I know I probably should wear wrist, knee, and elbow guards.  I use the EUC to commute to work, and it seems too cumbersome to gear up like a football player.

But after my face-plant last week: 

I'm so glad I had my helmet on.  I heard the helmet smack the pavement.  Very glad it wasn't my head.  I was on the ground before I knew I was falling, zero time to react.

Had I been wearing wrist, knee, and elbow guards, I probably wouldn't still have wrist, knee, and elbow pain a week later.

Re:

5 hours ago, Mono said:

I use the same protection gear for EUCing and for running, as for me it is precisely the same speed range, between 5km/h and (rarely) 25km/h. So it is the same protection gear.

I'm a long distance runner.  (Not a very good one.)  If you can run 25 kmh, I'm impressed.  My top speed is more like 15 kmh.  But there's a big difference.  When running, you always have a leg extended.  Even if you catch a foot on something, the other foot is already on its way forward.  On the EUC, your feet are planted side-by-side. 

Imagine running at top speed and without warning having both feet suddenly yanked backwards.  This would make me want to run with a helmet. 

[Mono]

Right, I can run 25km/h only for a very short period of time. It's an interesting point you make, that while running we always have one leg in front or at least already on the way to be in front. This probably gives a good hint for a desirable reflex to acquire for a sudden dismount while EUCing. Spreading the legs in direction of the movement, one to the front and the other to the back to counteract and facilitate the movement of the front leg. I think the back movement is counterintuitive, but it might prove to be really useful. I think we can see this also in this successful outlean attempt: 

https://youtu.be/8NB9SgjM65k?t=3m09s

[US69]

My 2 Cents:

It might be an "Option" to only wear parts of safety gear....For example at least an helmet or at least knee pads...

Or only when going around the Corner for a very few meters and not driving ...

The Argument that running on feets is not faster and so not to wear some safety gear???

 

I had 3 crash's with my EUC's:

1. as Newbie: Crash at about 12 kmh....by showing how fine i can accelerate...outleaned the wheel...ellbow damaged...No Safety gear

2.as Newbie: Crash at about 15kmh, i tried to move my feet on the pedals...result: 3 broken rips...No safety gear

3.Experience Crash at 33kmh...hefty accelerating into tiltback, which makes the wheel wobly....deep bruises on right arm, shoulder, back and legs, 4-6 weeks wound healing...With safety gear

 

What all crash's have together that NONE of them was a real cutout from nowwhere. Nevertheless i was not able to avoid crashing or better: do a "outrunning".....

There might be People in better shape who are able to outrun 1.+2. of the crashes i had....but nobody in the world will outrun a complete unforseeable cutout if is over 15-20kmh.

 

From Crash number 2 and 3 experience i definitly can say that on a suddenly  cutout, you just do one Thing: Smack on the bottom immediatly!

The best luck you can have in this Situation is to have some wrist guards and knee pads, that you slider some meters on this and hopefully absorbe some of the energy that way.....

 

And as sad as it is....some People have to experience that theirself to believe it....

 

 

 

 

[Cerbera]

You didn't have my option: No helmet but upper body compression suit, kneepads, wrist braces.

[Rehab1]

Being a rehab specialist I should know better but I only wear a helmet and gear when working on tricks and riding fast. I enjoy just cruising around at a casual pace and idling without a helmet and gear. I believe everyone has their own safety standards that they feel comfortable with.  Don't get me wrong I love going fast with protective gear donned but when it comes to just cruising around at 10-12 mph I do not wear protective equipment.

[Oily]

None of the above !

I've never ridden any wheel without my wrist protectors.  Depending how cold it is, I then may wear neoprene finger-less gloves under them, and then motorbike gloved on top !

As I do a 10 mile commute most days on the MSuper (each way), over the winter, I've actually been wearing full motorbike gear - so padded trousers (with hip & knee pads), and a padded jacket, with elbow, shoulder & back padding.  It's overkill, but it means if I do go down there shouldn't be too ,much risk of damage, and I've stayed lovely warm & dry !.
 

[Ombre]

I wish this topic hadn't been hijacked. The other participants in the thread could have continued a beneficial discussion.

There are those who like to pretend that protective gear is not necessary because a serious accident won't happen to them, or because they just don't like wearing it, or because they fantasize that they could somehow save themselves by running off or doing a parkour roll.

To each their own, but as the leading source of information on the Internet for new EUC owners and the only worldwide group of experienced riders, I think we have an opportunity —if not an obligation— to encourage riders to protect themselves from the likelihood of injury.

Like skateboarding, people often get hurt and serious injuries are often preventable.  We should be up-front and honest about this.  There might be fewer stories posted here about serious concussions, broken clavicles, compound fractures, etc., if we do.

This reminds me of the 1970s in the US when there was a national debate about the virtues of seat belts. Lots of people complained they were uncomfortable, not worth using, messed up their clothes ... a wide range of excuses.  People made ridiculous claims to justify their opposition, like the fantasy that they'd be safer to be "thrown clear of the crash" (believe it or not!)   It took decades to correct the misinformation and raise a generation of people who recognized that seat belts save lives.

We shouldn't let decades go in the EUC world before admitting as a community that protective gear is a basic prerequisite to safe riding.  Stating otherwise is irresponsible. The only question is, "What are good choices for protective gear?" which is what this thread was supposed to be about.

[Mono]

@Ombre , my apologies for stealing the thread, so let's get back to the topic. EUCing (at speeds less than 25km/h) is not comparable to car driving and use of seat belts. EUCing is much more comparable to cycling. In many parts of the world where cycling as usual means of transportation is hugely popular, many if not most cyclers don't wear helmets. The usage of bicycles is somewhat inverse to the usage of helmets for cycling, and the utility of helmets for everyday cycling (not racing) is highly contentious. We have somehow the choice between either seeing many cyclers around or seeing most cyclers around wearing a helmet. Both seems empirically not achievable. 

Promoting safety gear has one huge downside: it frames the activity for which it is promoted as being dangerous, thereby deterring people from doing it. Deterring people from cycling without helmet probably has cost more lives than it has saved, because cycling in itself is a healthy activity and it prevents the cycler to participate in more dangerous activities, like running over pedestrians with a car. 

[Ombre]

1 minute ago, Mono said:

@Ombre The usage of bicycles is somewhat inverse to the usage of helmets for cycling, and the utility of helmets for everyday cycling (not racing) is highly contentious. We have somehow the choice between either seeing many cyclers around or seeing most cyclers around wearing a helmet. Both seems empirically not achievable. 

Promoting safety gear has one huge downside: it frames the activity for which it is promoted as being dangerous, thereby deterring people from doing it. Deterring people from cycling without helmet probably has cost more lives than it has saved. 

I'm sorry, but that's complete nonsense.  The utility of bicycle helmets in preventing serious brain injuries is well proven and well-documented.  See "Bicyclist Deaths By Helmet Use" (US DOT Fatality Analysis Reporting System) as just one of many sources of reliable information on this topic.

Your claim that promoting safety gear "has cost more lives than it has saved" is also facetious. For example: "The odds that a bicyclist will wear a helmet are 4 times higher after a helmet law is enacted than before a law is passed." -- Source: Insurance Institute For Highway Safety.

I understand you don't personally choose to wear it, but presenting patently false information sways no one.

[Mono]

AFAICS, there is nothing wrong with the information you presented, however it does not contradict the points I tried to bring across. If you look at the correlation between fatalities of cyclers and frequency of wearing helmet, e.g. country-wise, you will find that the correlation is positive, despite the helmet being effective in preventing injury when an accident happens. The more people wear helmet, the larger is the fatalities rate. This is certainly highly counterintuitive and doesn't say anything about cause and effect or the mechanism, but it is what it is.

A possible mechanism is that promoting or even legislating helmet use is a deterrent which leads to less people cycling which makes cycling more dangerous, and more dangerous than it could be. 

EDIT: And a possible mechanism, how deterring people from cycling without helmet probably has cost more lives than it has saved, is that cycling in itself is a healthy activity increasing life expectancy and it prevents the cycler to participate in other dangerous activities, like running over pedestrians with a car.

[Cerbera]

16 minutes ago, Ombre said:

Your claim that promoting safety gear "has cost more lives than it has saved" is also facetious.

Er nope - nothing he said was facetious. Even if you disagree with everything said, he wasn't treating the subject unduly lightly.

[Mono]

38 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Er nope - nothing he said was facetious. Even if you disagree with everything said, he wasn't treating the subject unduly lightly.

thanks @Cerbera, and let me back you up: even if I didn't give any citations above, I did look into studies of this a while ago, so I did not pull my assessments just out of my desires or imagination or hat (still of my head though).

[Chriull]

My "option" is missing, too.

I always wear wrist guards and knee pads and quite often a helmet. (... and sometimes i just forget some safety equipment ;( - so the helmet changed from always to quite often since it is the most cumbersome piece of safety equipment ...)

1 hour ago, Ombre said:

I wish this topic hadn't been hijacked. The other participants in the thread could have continued a beneficial discussion.

...

I tried to move the unrelated parts to 

As it seems this thread is restored again and the other new topic consistently moved over to this other thread. (hopefully)

 

[Marty Backe]

On 1/30/2017 at 3:18 AM, Smoother said:

I can't take this survey because wrist guards are not included. Sorry, 

I took the survey, but I'm also disappointed that it didn't include elbow pads. I wear it all unless I'm taking a short and slow trip to the store. Even there I wear a helmet.

I've told myself that I will never step on the wheel if I'm not wearing a helmet. The brain is the one body part that's hard to come back from a serious injury (unlike broken bones that can eventually heal).