KingSong S19 1800wh: 100V, 18" tire, suspension, 71lbs

[Drunkard]

 

Wheel looks pretty good for what it is. Fun city commuter wheel. Finished product.

Would love to get a chance to test it someday. 

More of the beefed up S18 than a slimmed down S22. And I say that in a good way. 

Only issue I see with it is the price.. My guess is KS are not doing that great financially and they need large margins 

 

[techyiam]

Denis Hagov thinks highly of the S19.

It appears that Kingsong finally got a 100V wheel right.

So, they are only about 2 to 3 years behind.

Incredibly, Denis gets better performance out of the S19 than the S22 Pro. Yes, Pro. Even the range of the S19 is not too shabby. 

The S19 could be a nice riding wheel. 

Too bad Kingsong didn't listen to Jack ex-Kongsong back then and worked on a 100V motor drive system instead for the S20.

 

[Drunkard]

25 minutes ago, techyiam said:

It appears that Kingsong finally got a 100V wheel right.

So, they are only about 2 to 3 years behind.

This. It seems they were not ready to do 126V wheel.

KS can't tune the wheel to feel great through all speed range. First S22 was tuned to feel alive mid range speeds but people complained that the first few meters are sluggish. The PRO is now feeling good on low speed torque but Denis is reporting that it does not want to go past mid range speeds and you need to fight and force it.

 

In the end of the day I believe most of the wheels that are not 3000+ WH should always be tuned to perform best at 0-30kmh. Quick speed up to go around ppl on bike lanes, improved breaking, willingness to climb a hill etc.. Sure there are crazy 2400WH 134V wheels that are designed to kill the rider LOL but I don't think those are for general public. I'm talking general public wheels   S18 was being reported to feel great zipping around 0 to a 30 kmh, S19 seems to follow a trend feeling great form 0 but with a bit higher top. I like what they are doing with it.

[jimjam.nyc]

I know the v12 doesnt have suspension.. but I hope someone compares the performance/range of this wheel to the v12. I felt the v12(hs) was a really good feeling 100v wheel.

Other than the missteps in engineering on the board which I never experienced to this day,  I really enjoy that wheel for what it is.

Since I got my Patton I want to sell my v12, but been having a hard time deciding to put it up or not

I guess inmotion will soon be unveiling their next wheels which may have something to compete with this s19, because as of now there really is nothing to compare it to. The other 16/18in suspension wheels are a cut above this one.. Which puts it in a weird spot, because s19 is really close in weight and size to those wheels..

[Funky]

I want beefed up ks16s.  That doesn't go over 20kg weight.. Now that would be amazing city commuter. Perfect for people who need daily 10km range and doesn't want to gear up. More or less riding at running speeds.. 

[mrelwood]

On 7/28/2023 at 3:17 PM, Funky said:

I want beefed up ks16s.  That doesn't go over 20kg weight..

The manufacturers have lost their skill to make light wheels. They are just not able anymore.

 

[Funky]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

The manufacturers have lost their skill to make light wheels. They are just not able anymore.

 

[Wolverine]

 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

"Thanks to kingsong for sponsoring this video, however they had not have any influence in this review"

Say that with a straight face....

"The best suspension ride, in the game"

"Kingsong has always been known to make the best most well rounded electric unicycle on the market"

(paraphrasing)

"the suspension rubs a little , but meh. it's the best"

[Mango]

Best Suspension? 🧐

[jimjam.nyc]

The information in Jacks video was good.. But i was going to say, getting fully honest thoughts is becoming harder and harder these days.. I am not saying Jacks review is not honest, but with Kingsong sponsoring it, it makes it a bit tough to think everything is so great. Plus there was a lot of detail left out of this review compared to other reviews.

I do understand that this wheel is not for the crazy expert rides.. but expert riders may def see the appeal in owning a wheel like this for casual riding.. It looks pretty great for that.. So to leave out all of the finer details like speed, incline, more indepth brake testing, etc.. Seems odd.

Funny enough about the sponsoring thing.. I see a lot of complaints about Inmotion asking for deposits for "testers" or whatever they are doing with the adventure series... but the more I am seeing all of these reviews/previews from people who get free wheels, or are involved with the development.. The less I see of actual real meaningful criticisms of these wheels before they get into real customers hands. I think back to the v12 and the influencer testing.. that wheel went into production with some real flaws that as an owner I feel should have been fixed in testing.

 

Edited for more thoughts!

Edited July 29, 2023 by jimjam.nyc

[Mango]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The manufacturers have lost their skill to make light wheels. They are just not able anymore.

 

The majority of the weight is motor and battery. Everything else is plastic. I think they have gone to the limits of what's possible. 

[Funky]

Lightweight - 

[Funky]

20 minutes ago, Mango said:

The majority of the weight is motor and battery. Everything else is plastic. I think they have gone to the limits of what's possible. 

Then make smaller battery and weaker motor.. JESUS. Not everyone needs 50km/h+ wheels that can go 100km+ (All new releases mind you.)

In my case i would love the same motor, just 1/3third of battery. Heck looking how i ride most of times nowadays not geared, more or less at running speeds. Motor also can be quit weaker. 40km/h, 2000W motor, ~1000Wh could have been easily 22kg with suspension or 20kg without suspension.

Heck it's too close to S18.. Make then something even smaller!

Edited July 29, 2023 by Funky

[techyiam]

IMO, Kingsong made a marketing error.

Instead of coming out with a wheel slotted between the S18 and 22 with a high price, which no one seemed to have asked for, they should have made a S23. The S22 Pro is just a rename to demarcate the stage at which the S20 is finally ready for production.

The S23 should have 134 V, and 2400 Wh battery to compete in the Patton class. With that, they can justify a higher price. That is assuming their engineers are capable of making a competitive and reliable 134 V controller and motor drive system.

[slippyfeet]

The miss for me was when Jack Albert and Adam said specifically "S16" last year in their video. This was clearly not what was expected by the people that closely follow the market.

[meepmeepmayer]

It's a neat wheel! But you guys are right, it looks like it does not fit into the market easily. The problem for me is the price:

• The price makes sense. It is like a notably better version of the T4 (build quality, design, etc.) so it makes sense that it costs a bit more.
• But the price is too close to the S22 and other $3000 wheels (let alone the sub-3000 Commander Mini), which offer more performance and range. It may also be a bit too expensive for new riders as a no-brainer decent performance first wheel (I think a $2000 cutoff is about that price, otherwise why not pay a few hundred more for an S22 and the like if you break this psychological barrier anyways).

Maybe it will find its fans. It does look cool and nice and shiny, that might be enough! The V12 sold well, too (I assume) and it costs not much less, without suspension.

I hope KS know what they are doing in regards to market positioning. Maybe we people here are too much in the enthusiast/performance camp to see what other riders want and would buy. Also I should not blame KS alone for the lack of competitive cheaper entries into the market.

Edited July 29, 2023 by meepmeepmayer

[Drunkard]

5 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

"Thanks to kingsong for sponsoring this video, however they had not have any influence in this review"

Say that with a straight face....

"The best suspension ride, in the game"

"Kingsong has always been known to make the best most well rounded electric unicycle on the market"

(paraphrasing)

"the suspension rubs a little , but meh. it's the best"

Also:

"Ever since S18 was released people were BEGGING for rgb and speakers". Did they now 

 

Bit lost respect for putting the 'review' in the name for what clearly is a promotional video. Barely spoke about the ride/power, mostly presented the good.. It was mentioned it overheats so not best for of-road, how bad is it? did you push it hard or it overheated on a small hill? 

 

I think the wheel have lost of appeal for more casual rider. I imagine I would love it as i'm nowhere near of a pro rider like some of you here. Just need to be sure not to climb any hills I guess..

It probably have the best suspension for it's class. Could argue for the Patton suspension being better, but due to weight and power. these wheels are not the same class. It's a shame KS is trying to price it so close.. 

 

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

It's a neat wheel! But you guys are right, it looks like it does not fit into the market easily. The problem for me is the price:

• The price makes sense. It is like a notably better version of the T4 (build quality, design, etc.) so it makes sense that it costs a bit more.

I forgive a bit of price increase over T4 because of the suspension looking good out of the box. You pretty much end up ordering a new geometry for ~200$ for T4 to feel better and people go for spring shock setups on top of that. But they have to be realistic with how close they wanna get to Patton, Mini and S22

[0000]

Video review @ 1:52, ouch - had to say something. Boots or high-top shoes can save those ankles.

Weird wheel, seems like something made more for showing off at trade shows or similar venues than anything else. Kind of like a prototype car. In other words, this S19 = form > function.

[Funky]

12 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

Video review @ 1:52, ouch - had to say something. Boots or high-top shoes can save those ankles.

Weird wheel, seems like something made more for showing off at trade shows or similar venues than anything else. Kind of like a prototype car. In other words, this S19 = form > function.

Well people where crying more lights.. Better lights.. I think KS got lost mid translation. We didn't mean we like to look like pride parade while riding around. We wanted simply better front/back light.

Doh gotta give some props for sick ass music boxes at sides. At least now people can also hear the parade coming mile away. (How many of us ride while loud music is playing? Especially true people? Or middle of city center?)

 

 

In case some people didn't get it - i was making fun of S19. - It's pretty bad wheel. (At least if you compare it to other equally priced wheels, or little bit more expensive ones.) No need to be genius here, but it will sell worse than S22 for SURE!

Edited July 29, 2023 by Funky

[0000]

13 minutes ago, Funky said:

look like pride parade while riding around

LOL. Well to be fair, maybe they were watching some American media with pride month going on and thought that's exactly what we want - a kind-of lost in translation moment like you said.

13 minutes ago, Funky said:

i was making fun of S19. - It's pretty bad wheel. (At least if you compare it to other equally priced wheels, or little bit more expensive.)

Sure does seem like they threw out some common sense lessons learned. Oh well, at the end of the day sales, or lackthereof, will reveal whether they were in the right or not with some of the design choices.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Vanturion

[Funky]

15 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

Sure does seem like they threw out some common sense lessons learned. Oh well, at the end of the day sales, or lackthereof, will reveal whether they were in the right or not with some of the design choices.

Knowing how stupid the market/manufacturers are.. They will see that a 32kg wheel, lighter than S22 and it didn't sell that well. And figure - well lets now focus on making most powerful/fastest wheel we can. Because we tried to make a lighter commuter wheel.. And it didn't sell. (32kg and commuter is still 2 HEAVY!!! 20KG or under is perfect for commuter wheel.)

Hello Darkness my old friend  Introducing: 5000$, 60KG wheel that has 4200Wh battery and can finally go over 100km/h speed. (Most people on the forum would say - yes please. Or at least the morons who like to ride around without end destination.) Doh most people aren't you.. And has no need for something like this.

Sorry thinking more around the idea. Sure there will be some who need/want it. And would welcome it. But nah - i hate it.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Funky

[Robse]

in my humble opinion, this wheel is ugly as h*ll , the battery capacity is ridiculous, and the suspension even as bad as the s20 / 22 or whatever.  But that's just me, who thinks that a rs19 looks like just what it is; a electric unicycle, and not some kind of bizarre pop art designed transportation device from wonderland.

 

 

[mrelwood]

17 hours ago, Mango said:

The majority of the weight is motor and battery. Everything else is plastic. I think they have gone to the limits of what's possible. 

Let's see. V11 weighs 27kg, S18 is 25.5kg (iirc), and a 21700 cell weighs 60g.

A 20s3p (like S18) V11 would weigh 25.8kg, so S18 and V11 without batteries would be 0.3kg apart. Makes sense.

A 24s4p V11 (100V 1800Wh) would weigh 28.0kg. 30s4p (126V 2250Wh) V11 would weigh 29.4kg. 32s4p (134.4V 2400Wh) V11 would be 29.9kg.

2200W V11 without batteries weighs 22.2kg. 3000W Sherman S without batteries weighs 33.5kg. V11 motor weighs 8kg. If the weight difference would only be in the motor and battery, the 3000W ShermS motor would weigh 18.3kg. Doesn't make any sense for a 36% power increase to weigh 129% more. There absolutely must be a lot of weight added somewhere else as well. Those additions are what we wish that would be decreased.

[Funky]

58 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Let's see. V11 weighs 27kg, S18 is 25.5kg (iirc), and a 21700 cell weighs 60g.

A 20s3p (like S18) V11 would weigh 25.8kg, so S18 and V11 without batteries would be 0.3kg apart. Makes sense.

A 24s4p V11 (100V 1800Wh) would weigh 28.0kg. 30s4p (126V 2250Wh) V11 would weigh 29.4kg. 32s4p (134.4V 2400Wh) V11 would be 29.9kg.

2200W V11 without batteries weighs 22.2kg. 3000W Sherman S without batteries weighs 33.5kg. V11 motor weighs 8kg. If the weight difference would only be in the motor and battery, the 3000W ShermS motor would weigh 18.3kg. Doesn't make any sense for a 36% power increase to weigh 129% more. There absolutely must be a lot of weight added somewhere else as well. Those additions are what we wish that would be decreased.

Don't forget about the Begode MSP or what ever it was called 1500Wh battery. 18x3" tire and weighs only ~23kg... Same weight as S18, but S18 has 1000Wh battery and suspension.

It's show that 1000Wh wheels can easily be 20kg or under. And 1500Wh wheels can be 25kg or under. With 18x3" big M/C tire. And still be available to go over 50km/h speeds.

Manufacturers are simply becoming LAZY!!!! Making bigger/heavier wheels aren't anything special. It's simply laziness. Hurp-Durp lets throw in some bling, bling led lights, oversize cases, LCD screens, music boxes, non functional suspensions, and oversized batteries, because people wanna commute ~100km distances everyday... - Just dumb!

 

Wheel that has ~1000Wh. Motor of 2000W and can go speeds of 55km/h can easily be built in 20kg weight. (It has already been proven/done in past.) Manufacturers simply don't wanna do that.

Same for S19 - it could have been undated S18 at 27/28kg weight with 1800Wh battery.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Funky