KingSong S19 1800wh: 100V, 18" tire, suspension, 71lbs

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, Funky said:

Don't forget about the Begode MSP or what ever it was called 1500Wh battery. 18x3" tire and weighs only ~23kg... Same weight as S18, but S18 has 1000Wh battery and suspension.

Quote

Specifications:

 

 

Range: ~70Km - 140 km (depending on battery size)

 

Maximum speed 25 km / h, unbridgeable 40km / h after 200km

 

Battery: Lithium Ion 100V 900Wh or 1800Wh (LG M50T 21700 Cells)

 

Charge Time ~12 - 17H depending on battery size

 

Max Loads 120 KG

 

Motor Power: 2600W (nominal power)

 

Dimensions 546 mm (H) x 490 mm (L) x 266 mm (thickness)

 

Weight 23.5 KG

Link to source Gotway Msuper Pro

 

The maximum load is less than 280 lbs (120 kg). 

Also, it comes in two battery pack configurations: 900 Wh, and 1800 Wh., but listed one weight. 

[Funky]

24 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Link to source Gotway Msuper Pro

 

The maximum load is less than 280 lbs (120 kg). 

Also, it comes in two battery pack configurations: 900 Wh, and 1800 Wh., but listed one weight. 

It was msx100v and msx84v, not msp. Still all of them are 23-25kg.

900Wh seems perfect. Sadly you can't really find/get them. (Also didn't they use those 900Wh time bomb battery packs?) At least in my country there are none at all. Still they all are over 20kg. Meaning no point for me even consider them.

My 18xl also has the 280lbs max load.. I simply don't jump any curbs. And go over bumps slower.. Because i know i'm too heavy.  Heck even ks16s has max load of 260lbs, but even it survived my heavy ass.

[techyiam]

15 minutes ago, Funky said:

My 18xl also has the 280lbs max load.. I simply don't jump any curbs. And go over bumps slower.. Because i know i'm too heavy.  Heck even ks16s has max load of 260lbs, but even it survived my heavy ass.

Not sure back in that era would the engineers be accounting for riders doing jumps, drops, and stairs. 

Aluminium alloy can fail in fatigue a lot sooner when overloaded. Fatigue fractures occur after a certain number of stress cycles.

You make can rationalize why you can overload your device, but if you guess wrong, you end up taking the lumps.

[Taras]

sorry mates, w/o subs

 

 

[Funky]

4 hours ago, Taras said:

sorry mates, w/o subs

 

 

I will say it in short and simple - Who ever designed this wheel is a dipshit. More plastic than metal and in general everything will crack/break in first few drops, even at zero speed side drops.. They already broke one plastic tab, when trying to remove the side for fist time.  

It's even worse built than S22, that was already a shit-show! Yeah this one won't sell at all. Even if they lower the price to 2500$ - it wont sell..

Simply shitty wheel - nothing more. Good Luck KS - you will need it, if you keep making shit like this.

 

People did you notice how good it looked when they removed that shitty plastic "power-pad"? As i said before - bare bone S19 would have been better..

Edited August 2, 2023 by Funky

[Robse]

12 minutes ago, Funky said:

I will say it in short and simple - Who ever designed this wheel is a dipshit.

Plastic Bertrand

[Robse]

21 minutes ago, Funky said:

I will say it in short and simple - Who ever designed this wheel is a dipshit. More plastic than metal and in general everything will crack/break in first few drops, even at zero speed side drops.. They already broke one plastic tab, when trying to remove the side for fist time.  

It's even worse built than S22, that was already a shit-show! Yeah this one won't sell at all. Even if they lower the price to 2500$ - it wont sell..

Simply shitty wheel - nothing more. Good Luck KS - you will need it, if you keep making shit like this.

 

People did you notice how good it looked when they removed that shitty plastic "power-pad"? As i said before - bare bone S19 would have been better..

well maybe the plastic will bend instead of break, and add a little extra comfort and softness to the forest ride, who knows, time will show 😁

[okvp]

The s19 is only two kilos lighter than the s22pro, it has 400Wh smaller battery, worse suspension, 100V vs. 126V and aftermarket pads are difficult to fit. The only 'better' thing is a 'Chinese quality 'loud'speakers and some led lights.  The price difference is only 400€, 2700€ vs. 3100€

I don't understand this wheel at all, why was this brought to market?
Who wants to buy this?

There are currently no lightweight suspension wheels other than the S18. If KS would have made a 16" under 25kg compact suspension bike with a better battery, that might have been a hit...

[bpong]

my apologies guys, i got the wrong euc...damn...

[Flygonial]

8 hours ago, Funky said:

I will say it in short and simple - Who ever designed this wheel is a dipshit. More plastic than metal and in general everything will crack/break in first few drops, even at zero speed side drops.. They already broke one plastic tab, when trying to remove the side for fist time.  

It's even worse built than S22, that was already a shit-show! Yeah this one won't sell at all. Even if they lower the price to 2500$ - it wont sell..

Simply shitty wheel - nothing more. Good Luck KS - you will need it, if you keep making shit like this.

 

People did you notice how good it looked when they removed that shitty plastic "power-pad"? As i said before - bare bone S19 would have been better..

Sadly have to agree in general. I hoped for removable pads but not like how we see it here (where it’s all molded into the same piece as the wire cover). Interesting that they used a little connector PCB to accommodate for all the outgoing light and speaker wires, which would be nice if the wheel runs without them (except for the fact the cover can’t be divorced from the pads without literally cutting it and probably doing some involved gap filling with sheet plastic, bonder, and possibly a sanding and repaint). The whole thing, dare I say, looks toy-grade. One of the few advantages the S22 had was having  a relatively fast motor drop out and now there are a bunch of extra steps. 

We might be on the back burner for now as it seems KS has put a lot of investment into scooters and e-bikes, but they better hope that this revenue is enough to keep them afloat. I still wouldn’t want KS to go under as the EUC industry feels a bit like an oligopoly and any loss in competition is a loss for us buyers as well.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Flygonial
i can’t spell “as” apparently lol

[superox]

This was a wheel I was looking forward to, but I have to say I'm disappointed. The crude, but robust and understandable stuff Begode puts out these days makes more sense in comparison.

[meepmeepmayer]

How do you even change the tire/fix a flat on the S19? How much do you have to disassemble to get the motor out? Because any bit of disassembly looks like it definitely will not be fun with this wheel!

I still think this will sell. It looks cool and fancy, and is good enough spec-wise so many people will eat the price (the V13 also seems quite popular despite the price that made people wonder who would even buy it).

[yoos]

I think the S19 has its place as a fancy city wheel that "has it all" -- suspension, absolutely sufficient specs for most bike lane commuters, lights and RGBs, sound and looks (I'm not saying I love the look, but they definitely keep trying). In that buyer category of "serious commuter and EUC fan but not hardcore enthusiast or tinkerer" there is currently just one established rival - the V11 (which attests to the great design of the V11 -- still a worthy contender some three years in). Both of those wheels are predominantly city wheels. They are neither racing wheels nor off-road wheels (although they can be used that way) and therefore plastic is a natural solution -- those wheels are not even meant to be routinely crashed. Plastic is cheaper, lighter, easier to shape and (I think) a safer material in crash situations (for the rider and others ,not for the wheel itself). 

Nevertheless the weight is indeed a hard pill to swallow (for me at least). Perhaps the V11 really hit the sweet spot of specs vs weight ratio at current tech level. Still, the S19 should attract enough customers: people who want a capable commuter with all the bells and whistles, but want a bit more performance/rage than the V11 or just a louder, flashier ride.

[bpong]

not disrespecting the S19, but based on its "fancy city wheel" designation, may be the future appropriate nickname for the S19 would be 'disco'.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

1 hour ago, bpong said:

not disrespecting the S19, but based on its "fancy city wheel" designation, may be the future appropriate nickname for the S19 would be 'disco'.

Apparently, kingsong is also providing the suit that you are required to wear when you ride it...

[Robse]

Extra emergency battery boost pack ?

[bpong]

1 hour ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Apparently, kingsong is also providing the suit that you are required to wear when you ride it...

 

thats not too far from reality....!!! damn funny !!!!

[techyiam]

9 hours ago, yoos said:

Still, the S19 should attract enough customers: people who want a capable commuter with all the bells and whistles, but want a bit more performance/rage than the V11 or just a louder, flashier ride.

I would contend that there won't be many takers with that high msrp price. I believe Kingsong got the packaging of specs, features, and price wrong.

Look at what Leaper Kim had to do to get a wheel to become a good seller.

(1) OG Sherman: Leaper Kim's first wheel. Way above everyone's comfort zone for weight, size, and price. It has the performance, the high price, but still at a good value. And became the de facto standard in some sort of way.

(2) Abrams: First modular, minimalist design, for a non-suspension wheel. A flop because Leaper Kim cut corners with the hall effort sensors in the first batch motors, not completely worked out firmware, and a very steep learning curve for the average rider to adapt to the bulk and weight.

(3) Sherman Max: nothing special, just more battery, and a build up reputation from the OG Sherman. This worked well enough because it was at a time when the competition was plagued with early batch issues, including its own Abrams.

(4) Sherman-S: Innovative hydraulic suspension design. High quality and few early batch issues when the competition was drowning in early batch issues. First attempt at suspension and got it right. First to give near motorcycle grade suspension to electric wheels.

(5) Patton: Pure marketing genius. Repurpose the Sherman S for a new market that they created, and no one thought of it. Same suspension as the Sherman S, except for slightly less travel. But somehow, Leaper Kim got it to ride uniquely well. 

In each of these cases, Leaper Kim did something original, and it paid off in the end. The only exceptions were the Sherman Max, and the Abrams. The 22" could be a hard nut to crack for the masses in any case.

Edited August 4, 2023 by techyiam

[techyiam]

Now that eucdeals.com is up and running, and the prices are:

(1) Begode Master   $2099 USD

(2) Extreme Bull Commander Mini    $2299 USD

(3) Begode Extreme    $2399 USD

(4) Kingsong S22 Pro   $2599 USD

How many S19's are going to get sold?

Forget about the wheels from the competition for a second, and just compare the S19 to the S22 PRO. 

S19 has significantly less battery, 1760Wh vs 2220Wh, and 100.8V vs 126V to boot. Supposedly a less powerful rated motor, and the same 20" tire.

But the size, weight and price are just a touch less than the S22 Pro.

Even if what Denis Hagov said is completely true, then take a look at the Russian Teardown video.

I don't see it?

[Robse]

25 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Now that eucdeals.com is up and running, and the prices are:

(1) Begode Master   $2099 USD

(2) Extreme Bull Commander Mini    $2299 USD

(3) Begode Extreme    $2399 USD

(4) Kingsong S22 Pro   $2599 USD

How many S19's are going to get sold?

Forget about the wheels from the competition for a second, and just compare the S19 to the S22 PRO. 

S19 has significantly less battery, 1760Wh vs 2220Wh, and 100.8V vs 126V to boot. Supposedly a less powerful rated motor, and the same 20" tire.

But the size, weight and price are just a touch less than the S22 Pro.

Even if what Denis Hagov said is completely true, then take a look at the Russian Teardown video.

I don't see it?

KS has figured out, that there is a strong market for the looks rather than the specs. So it will sell, i am sure. How could anyone ever buy a car like this? But they did, more than 300000.  Unbelievable but fact.

[techyiam]

6 minutes ago, Robse said:

But they did, more than 300000.  Unbelievable but fact.

At gun point? 

Don't knock the car, that's a people mover that is compact, and has low window height for a good view looking out.

As for Kingsong, it is still a mystery to me.

If I was building an S19, there is no way I would make it roughly the same size, weight, and price as the S22 but with lower specs.

The price has to be significantly lower. That means the S19 cannot be based on the S22. 

Wouldn't it make more sense to base the S19 on the S18 but with some refinement and more battery and a moderately increase in price. The people who would buy an S19 would probably be the people who would like the S18 but would want more capability.

[Robse]

4 minutes ago, techyiam said:

At gun point?   😂😂

 

Wouldn't it make more sense to base the S19 on the S18 but with some refinement and more battery and a moderately increase in price. The people who would buy an S19 would probably be the people who would like the S18 but would want more capability.

agree, once i considered a S18, but the bat.cap was / is too low; low range and bad safety margin.

[slippyfeet]

9 hours ago, Robse said:

KS has figured out, that there is a strong market for the looks rather than the specs. So it will sell, i am sure.

 

It will mostly be regions outside of North America. My distributor said Kingsong's euc sales in US have drastically decreased to the point that it has prompted the boss to consider investigating in person.

[jimjam.nyc]

21 minutes ago, slippyfeet said:

It will mostly be regions outside of North America. My distributor said Kingsong's euc sales in US have drastically decreased to the point that it has prompted the boss to consider investigating in person.

The competition here in the US at least is pretty stiff. More and more people are looking for the performance above everything else. Doesn't help that begode is basically giving away their wheels to anyone who will post about it.

Plus all of these discount stores now selling mostly begode wheels at crazy low prices. It is probably hard for KS to compete with all of that.

 

 

 

 

 

[Taras]

automatically generated eng subtitles was included.
sorry. But I haven't enough time to edit it. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Taras