KingSong S19 1800wh: 100V, 18" tire, suspension, 71lbs

[techyiam]

12 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Do we know the final price already?

ewheels.com is currently selling the S19 with 1800 Wh of Samsung 40T cells at $2750 USD.

[meepmeepmayer]

35 minutes ago, techyiam said:

ewheels.com is currently selling the S19 with 1800 Wh of Samsung 40T cells at $2750 USD.

Haha, sorry I thought this was the S16 thread. I need to learn to read. The price of the S19 is nothing new.

[Clem604]

 

[Clem604]

 

[meepmeepmayer]

Interesting. Eevees don't want to sell the S19 (right away) because

1. They've been burned by first batch wheels, with costly repairs paid for by them
2. They think too many new models have been released recently (24 wheels in 18 months - is it really that many?)
3. They're not totally sure for who this is - it's no competiton for performance wheels, and for beginners there's the S16 which is much cheaper - and they are wondering whether the S19 would sell (they're asking people if they would buy the S19)

But they say it's great and sleek, if expensive. They very much like it.

(And wow, that lift switch implementation is maximally stupid.)

-

I wonder if this needs a severe price drop to sell. Might depend on how good the S16 is. If the S16 is just as good but (nearly $1000) cheaper, the S19 might be a hard sell.

[techyiam]

4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Interesting. Eevees don't want to sell the S19 (right away) because

Kingsong did not compensate eevees for the $1000 it cost eeevees to replace the motor for every S22 it has in its inventory. And Lukas said in a video that eevees bought a boat load of S22's. 

It sounds like it's a tough business to be in. 

4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I wonder if this needs a severe price drop to sell. Might depend on how good the S16 is. If the S16 is just as good but (nearly $1000) cheaper, the S19 might be a hard sell.

The S19 may be a well built wheel, and thus the price is high. However, no one trusts Kingsong after the S22 fiasco. In any case, people are going to compare the S19 to similarly priced wheels based on mainly spec's. So, it could be a tough sell.

Since S16 need to be priced low, we have to wait and see whether Kingsong can compete head on, or have they cut quality, QC again. I think Inmotion seems to be able to do better on this front.

Edited September 16, 2023 by techyiam

[meepmeepmayer]

9 hours ago, techyiam said:

Since S16 need to be priced low, we have to wait and see whether Kingsong can compete head on, or have they cut quality, QC again. I think Inmotion seems to be able to do better on this front.

I have high hopes for the S16 and expect it to be just as good (if not better) as the S19 in terms of quality and refinedness and sleekness (why not? Seems to be what KS is focusing on atm.). It's sad how KS is (possibly) cannibalizing itself with these two wheels, but it's their own fault in the end.

As for IM, yes their new wheels are great, and priced according to the market. But in the end I'm still sour about them because (like some others *cough* Sherman-S *cough*) the prices are just too high in absolute terms. The Adventure is 3400, and for a few hundred more you could get an EX30 or something else with 3600Wh. And honestly, an investment of nearly 4000 (wheel + gear + whatnot) to get into the game is crazy to me.

That's exactly why I have such high hopes for the S16. A wheel as "good" (minus some speed/batter capacity) as the S19, but for under 2000, is exactly the improvement we need. I truly hope it doesn't suck!

As for the S19, it would be a fantastic wheel to recommend to new riders if it were maybe 2200-2300. With the higher price... eh, for whom is it? It's still very nice and people very well may buy it in droves. I just don't like the high prices nowadays. Maybe we will have KS to thanks for changing this after the S16.

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I have high hopes for the S16 and expect it to be just as good (if not better) as the S19 in terms of quality and refinedness and sleekness (why not? Seems to be what KS is focusing on atm.). It's sad how KS is (possibly) cannibalizing itself with these two wheels, but it's their own fault in the end.

I am not sure Kingsong actually cannibalized the S22 Pro with the S16. People looking to buy the S22 Pro are not going to buy the S16.

For me, it is too early to tell how well built the S16 is going to be. Kingsong is prototyping. We need to see a teardown.

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

I am not sure Kingsong actually cannibalized the S22 Pro with the S16.

They don't. I meant cannibalizing S19 sales with the S16. For me, the S19 is more or less the same as the S16 (not for super duper enthusiasts, but a great performing wheel with a lot of nice features, ideal for new riders and commuters) but a tire size bigger. So a price difference of 800, 900, maybe even 1000 in favor of the S16 will cannibalize S19 sales (unless the S16 sucks somehow).

As for S19 vs S22 (maybe you meant to write "S19"?), I think the prices favor the S22 anyways.

I do believe the S19 at the current price may very well have a market for itself (even just because of its looks as compared to the S22, for example) and be successful, even if many might go for the S16 instead. Its price doesn't change that it appears to be a great wheel.

Edited September 16, 2023 by meepmeepmayer

[techyiam]

21 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I do believe the S19 at the current price may very well have a market for itself (even just because of its looks as compared to the S22, for example) and be successful, even if many might go for the S16 instead. Its price doesn't change that it appears to be a great wheel.

There are hints that the price of the S19 is dropping.

$2199 USD at Aliexpress.com

Kingsong S19 at Aliexpress.com

[mrelwood]

6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I have high hopes for the S16 and expect it to be just as good (if not better) as the S19 in terms of quality and refinedness and sleekness

EUCSale review said that the S16 was pretty wide. Since he likes wide wheels, it feels that the S16 might be really wide.

[damians]

Good morning everyone.  In my opinion it makes no sense to buy S19 because it weighs only 2 kg less than S22 pro.  Plus the S19 is only a centimeter narrower than the S22 pro.  I read these specifications on the official Kingsong website.  Then it makes more sense to buy s18 which is much lighter and narrower.  I have to buy my first wheel and I'm undecided between s18 and s22 pro.

[CrabChampion]

4 hours ago, damians said:

Good morning everyone.  In my opinion it makes no sense to buy S19 because it weighs only 2 kg less than S22 pro.  Plus the S19 is only a centimeter narrower than the S22 pro.  I read these specifications on the official Kingsong website.  Then it makes more sense to buy s18 which is much lighter and narrower.  I have to buy my first wheel and I'm undecided between s18 and s22 pro.

Between those two, get the s22 pro. So much more battery and you can actually grow into that wheel. The s18 battery is too small and you'll end up looking to upgrade soon

[Mango]

S19 replaces the S18. At this point, the S18 is pretty much outclassed in every metric. Every recommendation for a lightweight suspension commuter goes to the V11. It's proven itself.

For a lightweight trail wheel, the T4 is much more powerful and capable.

A 100v 16"-tire version of the S18 would have been a better replacement to the newly announced S16.

[techyiam]

35 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said:

Between those two, get the s22 pro. So much more battery and you can actually grow into that wheel. The s18 battery is too small and you'll end up looking to upgrade soon

People used to advise people against learning to ride an electric wheel on a 77 lbs OG Sherman.

The S22 Pro is a wider at the top 77+ lbs wheel.

The S18 would be so much easier to learn on.

 

[Funky]

Easy - If you need a lot of range, or ride faster take S22.. But if you need to do small commutes daily & need to carry the wheel (not trolleying around) then S18.

I personally would take S18 any day.. Because im ridding around 30km/h speeds and my commute daily is only 5km range. I already charge my 18xl (1550Wh battery) once every 2 weeks.. I even once rode 3 week without charging, doh my battery dropped down to 35% then..

If i didn't need to carry my wheel at all, i would take most powerful wheel and simply ride, i would have amazing safety margins and could charge it once a month.  Sadly i live on 3rd floor apartment and take train to work, meaning i'm carrying my wheel a lot, that's why i would take S18 any day.

Need to carry & No need to carry - easy.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Funky

[damians]

34 minutes ago, Funky said:

Facile: se hai bisogno di molta autonomia o di andare più veloce, prendi S22. Ma se devi fare piccoli spostamenti quotidiani e devi portare con te la ruota (non andare in giro con il carrello), allora S18.

Personalmente prenderei l'S18 ogni giorno. Perché sto guidando a una velocità di circa 30 km/h e il mio tragitto giornaliero è di soli 5 km. Carico già il mio 18XL (batteria da 1550 Wh) una volta ogni 2 settimane.. Ho anche guidato una volta per 3 settimane senza ricaricare, ma la mia batteria è scesa al 35% quindi...

Se non avessi affatto bisogno di portare con me la ruota, prenderei la ruota più potente e semplicemente guiderei, avrei margini di sicurezza sorprendenti e potrei caricarla una volta al mese. Purtroppo vivo in un appartamento al 3° piano e prendo il treno per andare al lavoro, il che significa che porto molto con me la ruota, ecco perché prenderei S18 ogni giorno.

È necessario trasportarlo e non è necessario trasportarlo: facile.

Once I learned to ride a wheel I would use it almost exclusively for off road trips, therefore long journeys in the countryside and in the woods in the mountains.  I wouldn't use it in the city, also because here in Italy they are making a law that prohibits its use.  However I only weigh 60kg and I don't like running fast.
 
 I don't have to carry the wheel up the stairs as I have a garage on the ground floor.  I would only have to load the wheel every time in the car.

[Funky]

2 hours ago, damians said:

Once I learned to ride a wheel I would use it almost exclusively for off road trips, therefore long journeys in the countryside and in the woods in the mountains.  I wouldn't use it in the city, also because here in Italy they are making a law that prohibits its use.  However I only weigh 60kg and I don't like running fast.
 
 I don't have to carry the wheel up the stairs as I have a garage on the ground floor.  I would only have to load the wheel every time in the car.

S22 for sure then.. Clear choice, do you even need to ask? Doh there are better models than S22..

I personally would like to own Sherman Max. But after 3 years riding mostly to work. My next wheel will be around 20kg weight for sure. I don't want anything heavier than my 18xl, which is at the moment 26kg.

Need be my next wheel can even be weaker, have less range.. Anything to get something lighter. (Sad that they don't make lightweight wheels anymore.. Still waiting for something actually good to be released.)

Edited September 23, 2023 by Funky

[skunkmonkey]

2 hours ago, damians said:

here in Italy they are making a law that prohibits its use

It's just insane that countries are claiming to try to push for climate change while at the same time banning the very means of making a significant difference. They need to embrace the change rather than fighting it. Simple regulation could control the problems they have with them. They could say something like under 40-50kph you have to ride in the bike lane if one is available, and if you want to ride in traffic then you need to obey car vehicle laws.

[Funky]

12 minutes ago, skunkmonkey said:

It's just insane that countries are claiming to try to push for climate change while at the same time banning the very means of making a significant difference. They need to embrace the change rather than fighting it. Simple regulation could control the problems they have with them. They could say something like under 40-50kph you have to ride in the bike lane if one is available, and if you want to ride in traffic then you need to obey car vehicle laws.

Or stick to sidewalks.. Each country have their own what's "normal". We would be dead to see any EUC ride with cars, or general on street in my country.  

Bikes, Scooters, EUC - Sidewalks. (I get other countries they ride on bike lanes & streets.. But here we ride with pedestrians. So for us riding on streets are wrong.)  And because you ride with pedestrians - we don't need big/fast EUC's..

Helps that i live in "ghost town" meaning most paths are empty, or people don't block paths - you can simply ride around them. (Ofc at slower speed than you would regularly ride when no one is around.)

Edited September 23, 2023 by Funky

[skunkmonkey]

54 minutes ago, Funky said:

But here we ride with pedestrians. So for us riding on streets are wrong

Gotcha, that makes sense. I didn't think about how many European countries have very small roads that can't fit bike lanes. I still think that if they really want to make a meaningful change they are going to have to make some painful choices, which might include regulating PEV's so they ride on roads with cars, or widening roads to include PEV / bike lanes. Widening would be hard, especially in areas with a lot of history, so I think regulation is the way to go there.

Edited September 23, 2023 by skunkmonkey

[Funky]

8 hours ago, skunkmonkey said:

Gotcha, that makes sense. I didn't think about how many European countries have very small roads that can't fit bike lanes. I still think that if they really want to make a meaningful change they are going to have to make some painful choices, which might include regulating PEV's so they ride on roads with cars, or widening roads to include PEV / bike lanes. Widening would be hard, especially in areas with a lot of history, so I think regulation is the way to go there.

More or less we are already following scooter laws here.. (They can ride with pedestrians.) Going 25km/h speeds. Ofc sometimes i still go 40km/h speeds, when no one is around or when i ride outside of city. Got to love long straight paths true forest, or grassy fields.

Sometimes even in city center you can go those speeds.. But same time you need to slow down around blind corners and things like that, where any moment some pedestrian can "hop" out of nowhere.

In general one needs to ride according that moment setting around you.. Using brain.. And everything is fine.

 

Anyway - we are going off topic.. To make admins happy, i will say this. I hate S19, anyone who have brain will take S22 any-day. <<< See i talked about S19. How it's an useless release..  So i didn't went off-topic.   (More or less kidding around.. But same time some truth there.)

Edited September 24, 2023 by Funky

[mrelwood]

 

On 9/23/2023 at 7:48 PM, techyiam said:

The S18 would be so much easier to learn on.

Easier for sure, but people learn to ride on Shermans, even the S, and other large wheels all the time.

Purchasing a wheel you’re expected to use for 1-3 years based on which is easier for the first 1-2 weeks isn’t sensible.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

 

Easier for sure, but people learn to ride on Shermans, even the S, and other large wheels all the time.

Meaning what? What would be the percentage of people learning to ride an electric wheel for the first time?

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Purchasing a wheel you’re expected to use for 1-3 years based on which is easier for the first 1-2 weeks isn’t sensible.

Entirely subjective. Maybe for you.

As for myself, on hindsight, I still would have bought a T3 or equivalent to learn on. Skipping the T3 and learn straight away on a V12 would have been non-sensible. It would have been total ludicrous for me to start on the Abrams.

[Funky]

Each their own.. I for sure would not buy a wheel, just for "learning"..

Buy what you actually gonna use. Who cares that your learning time will take little more. Buying small wheel, when you need a big powerful one is simply dumb. You gonna sell it after 1 month. (Again - if you need powerful/fast one..)

Ofc if you don't care about wasting $$$ and buying/selling - you do you. BUT one could say, if you outright start learning on big wheel - you safe some time, by skipping small wheels and relearning to ride when hopping on big wheel.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Funky