KingSong S19 1800wh: 100V, 18" tire, suspension, 71lbs

[novazeus]

yeah, using ewheels pricing, i can buy a s22 pro for only $325 more. 

and the s22 has 4000 watt motor and only weighs 7 pounds more. goes 6.5 mph faster. s19 has 356 wh less battery. i don't get it. 

even if i liked pads, which i don't, the built in pads look too far rearward to me. 

i predict lousy sales for the s19. 

[gon2fast]

I think that this wheel will be appealing for beginners and folks who like bright lights and loud noises coming from their wheel (not me, I stay in the shadows LOL). If given the choice between the S19 and the S22_P with the minmaI price increase I would go S22 all day. Also, is the suspension really worth an additional $1000 because without it you basically have 100V 18XL.

A 100V 16X may spark my interest though... with suspension, oh that would be a really nice trunk wheel. 

Dang it, sorry to get off topic... 

[Uras]

9 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

This wheel looks really good. Even has LED light show front and sides, built in speakers and USB A and C ports. 32Kg and 3500W motor a nice 60km/h wheel. Body panel robustness similar to S18 all this judging by the photos and some specs but we will need to wait and see. 

 

It is an 89volt wheel - 100v is the maximum charging . The main heading is a bit misleading.

[chanman]

We've been using the the charging voltage as the standard for however many years, even though nominal is more accurate and used by ebikes and the like. Kind of a weird place to be pointing it out now.

[mrelwood]

[techyiam]

@mrelwood

 Would you consider the S19?

[mrelwood]

The images above are all just CGI renders. If they weren’t, I’d be criticizing the dihedral angle of the pedals, vulnerable rear light position, and the vertical angle of the front pads. I’d also be happy to see what looks like a narrower to part than that of the S22. But I’ll have to see actual photos to form a solid opinion on them.

 The battery size makes a lot of sense to me based on my experiences on the V11. Tire size as well, I definitely prefer this 14” rim size for my height and weight, as well as for the replacement tire availability. 12” is just too active to my tastes at 30mph speeds.

The top speed is also sufficient for me, and based on what I’ve read, it is for many others as well. People often mistakenly directly compare the top speed of KS and Inmotion to wheels with no speed limiter, thinking that the S19 would have the same safety margin than something like a 84V MSX. But the 60km/h top speed limit is most probably at around 62.5% of the free spin speed (like it is on the S22), making the safety margin comparable to wheels with a free spin of 96km/h (EX.N etc).

[mrelwood]

30 minutes ago, techyiam said:

@mrelwood

 Would you consider the S19?

It is getting very close to what I like to see on my next wheel. Depending on what Inmotion comes up with, I’ll most probably consider the S19.

 What is usually overlooked though are the ancient ride mode settings that have seen zero improvement in almost 10 years on all but Inmotion wheels. It’s hard to imagine finding the optimal setting from just three (actually just one, since the other two are usually overdone) ride modes anymore. Inmotion settings are simply amazing for making the wheel feel your own. On all others you choose the rough ballpark setting and then adjust your riding style instead of the wheel. Yuck.

Edited April 7, 2023 by mrelwood

[slippyfeet]

Still too big and expensive for my liking.  Last chance this year is those other orange guys, hoping the manufacturers make a true 16" wheel again.

[techyiam]

7 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Inmotion settings are simply amazing for making the wheel feel your own. On all others you choose the rough ballpark setting and then adjust your riding style instead of the wheel. Yuck.

Interesting that you feel this way.

I guess I don't find a need for all those fine adjustments. Beside the V12, I also own the T3 and the Abrams, but I am happy with just soft, medium and hard pedal adjustment, and calibration, 

[BKW]

Dude, you got to be kidding me!?

Haha. Another one?

Damn, EUC companies kicking major a$$

[cegli]

I have similar thoughts to novazeus. The S22 Pro is only 6.5 pounds heavier and only costs a little extra.  Yet the S22 Pro is a 126V wheel, higher power motor, bigger tire, bigger battery, etc.  I'm all for lighter, cheaper, slower wheels, but if you're only saving 6.5 pounds and a few hundred bucks... That doesn't seem like a good trade-off.  Why get this instead of the S22 Pro?  RGB lights plus speakers?  Maybe it'll have better build quality or something, but I'm not holding my breath.

[BKW]

16 minutes ago, cegli said:

I have similar thoughts to novazeus. The S22 Pro is only 6.5 pounds heavier and only costs a little extra.  Yet the S22 Pro is a 126V wheel, higher power motor, bigger tire, bigger battery, etc.  I'm all for lighter, cheaper, slower wheels, but if you're only saving 6.5 pounds and a few hundred bucks... That doesn't seem like a good trade-off.  Why get this instead of the S22 Pro?  RGB lights plus speakers?  Maybe it'll have better build quality or something, but I'm not holding my breath.

This is somewhat a beautiful thing that is happening for customers. A high price is listed of a limited item, people buy it. More high listings go up of more items, competition ensues. Eventually so many listings are available that pricing starts swaying toward the buyer (i.e., "why buy this when I can buy that? Why pay this for that when I can pay that for this?"). Good news is more wheels are getting pumped out and competition is rising and costs may begin to lower or be more in favor of consumers. You can see it with old inventory that no one is buying with these distributors, they have to reduce the price to sell old stock, even though a lot of the stock really isn't old with all these new wheels being pumped out so fast

Edited April 7, 2023 by BKW

[techyiam]

13 minutes ago, cegli said:

I have similar thoughts to novazeus. The S22 Pro is only 6.5 pounds heavier and only costs a little extra.  Yet the S22 Pro is a 126V wheel, higher power motor, bigger tire, bigger battery, etc.  I'm all for lighter, cheaper, slower wheels, but if you're only saving 6.5 pounds and a few hundred bucks... That doesn't seem like a good trade-off.  Why get this instead of the S22 Pro?  RGB lights plus speakers?  Maybe it'll have better build quality or something, but I'm not holding my breath.

I think the S19 is not for riders who would be happy with the S22 Pro.

It is more for riders who lust after the 130 mm travel, and effect rising rate linkage, but has no need for the extra range, weight, and top speed. The S19 should also be easier to ride.

This could be a better jumpers' wheel, or a wheel for beginners or commuters who wants something a little more premium but nothing too difficult to ride.

It is looking like there are going to be three main suspension classes:

(1) Light Weight Class: 67+ lbs, 1800 Wh, 18x3 tire.

(2) Medium Weight Class: 77+ lbs, 2200+ Wh, 20x2.75+ tire.

(3) Open Class: 95+ lbs, 3600+ Wh, 20+ x 2.75+ tire.

[onkeldanuel]

1 hour ago, cegli said:

I have similar thoughts to novazeus. The S22 Pro is only 6.5 pounds heavier and only costs a little extra.  Yet the S22 Pro is a 126V wheel, higher power motor, bigger tire, bigger battery, etc.  I'm all for lighter, cheaper, slower wheels, but if you're only saving 6.5 pounds and a few hundred bucks... That doesn't seem like a good trade-off.  Why get this instead of the S22 Pro?  RGB lights plus speakers?  Maybe it'll have better build quality or something, but I'm not holding my breath.

I believe its exaktly the same motor only on 100V instead of 126 and so the speed is some kph lower and the "Powerrating" is 500W less 

Edited April 7, 2023 by onkeldanuel

[The Brahan Seer]

The price I could see as £2000 ($2500) since eWheels price is only a guess too. Especially with its specs and the current economic climate.

Now if the rear speakers and front can be very easily removed (and/or are designed to be) that would be amazing. It could then be a mini S22 jumper with less fear of breaking bodywork. But I won't hold my breath.

 

[novazeus]

the s22 amateur is a great wheel except for the slider issue. freemotion is still selling them for $2599 and they are sending me new ball bearing sliders. 

move the pedals down and forward and it's great. only wheel i have that my toes aren't hanging off the front. and on my road, 28 mph is about as fast as i can hit only having so much straightaway before my leaf covered 90 degree curve(which i'm gonna sweep today before i kill myself).just as fast off the line, if not faster than the v13. 

the trolley handle isn't great but backwards trolleying is fine. i have to trolley thru sugar sand sometimes, which is like dry quicksand, but on a hard surface it's fine. 

grind down the center nub on the tire which i accidentally did, and the stock knobby tracks great on pavement. i love the michelin pilot street 2 tire, but the stock knobby performs great leaning it on my curve, not gonna change it. 

not that i'll ever use it but i stuck it on anyway, the s22 comes with a seat.

pedals look identical to the s22 and i'm no spike pedal fan, especially with my van's waffle soles, but i've even adapted to the spikes on the s22. 

the key question with the s19, how did they address the slider issue on it?

the s19 is still a 14" rim isn't it, like the s22?

maybe the s19 is a marketing ploy so dealers can move old stock of s22 amateurs. 

if i keep my s22, once king song sends out the ball bearing sliders, and i have it apart, if they won't work, i'll do what others have done and order the third party ones, and it will be the best suspension wheel i have.i call the v13 my mercedes, and i've ridden in real mecedes with the shittiest suspension i've ever felt, stiff as a board. the s22 is a jeep and what u need offroad. u don't take a mecedes or a vette offroad. if i was racing on a smooth racetrack, the v13 with it's street tire and stiff suspension is the way i'd go. i feel every imperfection the way mine is setup. a twig feels like a branch.

i like speakers on a wheel out here, but i just strap my extra phone on my arm and play music on it.

if u want a slower wheel, just get a s18 and put the michelin pilot street 2 tire on it like i'm gonna do. it's suspension is softer than the v13. 

again, my two cents.

ps: just got another email from freemotion that says the sliders are coming from china to their warehouse. so probably a couple more weeks before i get to see what king song has done. my pastures are bare now because lack of rain, so i can navigate them better. i'd love to try it out there with proper sliders. that would be so huge for me to be able to survey my property and cows, even though they go nuts seeing me on a wheel. cows are very suspicious of anything out of the ordinary. the s18 would work but it's just too weak. u have to go slow and crawl over obstacles.it's like stairs only horizontal. going fast u catch lots of air and sticking the landing might be a bigass hole.

Edited April 7, 2023 by novazeus

[rebeuc]

2 hours ago, novazeus said:

i like speakers on a wheel out here, but i just strap my extra phone on my arm and play music on it.

I like the idea of the speakers on the wheel more for the potential ability to have different (and hopefully louder) alarm sounds; the piezo buzzer on the S18 was definitely not ideal as it is VERY difficult to hear at any sort of speed where it starts to become important

[mrelwood]

13 hours ago, cegli said:

Yet the S22 Pro is a 126V wheel, higher power motor, bigger tire, bigger battery, etc.

The only size difference comes from the knobs on the S22 versus a street tire on the S19. The tire carcass is the same size, both being equal to 2.75-14” motorcycle tires.

 

12 hours ago, techyiam said:

It is looking like there are going to be three main suspension classes:

(1) Light Weight Class: 67+ lbs, 1800 Wh, 18x3 tire.

(2) Medium Weight Class: 77+ lbs, 2200+ Wh, 20x2.75+ tire.

(3) Open Class: 95+ lbs, 3600+ Wh, 20+ x 2.75+ tire.

There are no 20” tires. EUCs that are marketed as being 20” wheels usually have a 2.75-14” motorcycle tire, which is usually a direct replacement for a 18x3” bicycle tire. Both have a 14” rim, and can usually be used with either a 18x3”, 2.75-14”, or a 80/90-14” tire. They’re all practically the same.

 

5 hours ago, novazeus said:

the key question with the s19, how did they address the slider issue on it?

Indeed. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if the S19 had a similar slider tube design than the S18.

5 hours ago, novazeus said:

the s19 is still a 14" rim isn't it, like the s22?

Yes.

5 hours ago, novazeus said:

it's suspension is softer than the v13. 

Sounds like you are one of the few lucky ones with a well aligned S18 suspension from the factory. That or your V13 could use some adjusting.

[novazeus]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Sounds like you are one of the few lucky ones with a well aligned S18 suspension from the factory. That or your V13 could use some adjusting.

i've tried as low as 100 psi and up to 200 psi. no major difference. i am running 40psi on it's tubeless michelin pilot street 2 tire which already has stiffer sidewalls. at some point for training purposes, like freemounting, i may drop the pressure. 

i mean over a couple of days i played with everything and settled on 175 psi and i think i'm two turns or two and a half turns out from full counterclockwise on the damper setting.

btw, why does inmotion tell u to wait ten minutes to adjust the air pressure on the shocks?

@YourAubsomethoughts on the s18, s22 and v13, mirror mine exactly.

glad to hear my s18 got something right because the jiluer tire sure sucks.
 

hopefully i won't screw it up if and when i change the tire to the michelin. haven't really studied the disassembly videos yet.

 

[mrelwood]

 

16 minutes ago, novazeus said:

i think i'm two turns or two and a half turns out from full counterclockwise on the damper setting.

Maybe there’s some room to adjust the damper to be a bit softer?

 The trick that works well on the V11 is to wax the slider rails with candle wax. The V13 system is similar enough that waxing should work on it as well if you want the suspension to be more sensitive. It won’t last forever though.

[chanman]

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

18x3”, 2.75-14”, or a 80/90-14” tire. They’re all practically the same.

There's a decent bit of variation, actual outer diameter can be between a bit over 18" to a bit over 20" 

[novazeus]

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 

Maybe there’s some room to adjust the damper to be a bit softer?

 The trick that works well on the V11 is to wax the slider rails with candle wax. The V13 system is similar enough that waxing should work on it as well if you want the suspension to be more sensitive. It won’t last forever though.

i tried two turns out, but i got the pogo stick effect. i don't know. i'm baffled. it's not stuck like the s22 is as delivered. there's no resistance, it's like @YourAubsomethinks when she pumps it up to 250 psi, and u know that's too much for her at 100 pound weight, yet she feels like it bottoms out. i know i could soften the tire and soften the ride, i'd let my jeep tires go down to 25 psi crawling around the ranch, but the suspension sb able to handle the tree roots and divots on my road. it was apparent when i jumped back on my stock s22 that i hadn't lubricated in weeks and didn't have much travel, and it was as good as the v13. 

i'm gonna do a static jump up and down on it tmrw and see if i can find bottom that way.

bigger problems with it's lack of torque from a standstill that almost faceplanted me tn.

[Greg X]

it may be nice middle-class wheel. 
NOT super heavy, not super powerfull but... good comfort, enough battery and power for most daily users, and all this for... 60% price of sherman-s 

[DjPanJan]