King Song S22 motor stator slippage issue: more severe than expected

[5Cauac]

 

@onkeldanuel

Now imagine he has an s22 between his legs. You better squeeze them legs really hard on touch down or you and/or the wheel will take off.

Edited September 27, 2022 by 5Cauac

[Rawnei]

1 minute ago, 5Cauac said:

 

Now imagine he has an s22 between his legs. You better squeeze them legs really hard on touch down or you and/or the wheel will take off.

The burnouts will be glorious though!

[Eucner]

3 hours ago, Rawnei said:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/134599833910471/permalink/1085779505459161/

Did I understand it correctly? Every S22 will be now destructively tested, when they could have been fixed cheaply with a drill bit and 4 pins.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Eucner said:

Did I understand it correctly? Every S22 will be now destructively tested, when they could have been fixed cheaply with a drill bit and 4 pins.

Would you not want your new wheels really hard tress tested before you buy it? I for one would like that. -That way you would know that wheel is somewhat robust. It won't fail you after 1-2 weeks.. Every wheel should be tested like that in my mind.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Funky

[Mishkin]

I'm not a Facebook or YouTube expert but I think they have pulled the video from being public and the Facebook post has also gone? Being revised?

[supercurio]

@Mishkin the YouTube video is still here, but the Facebook post is gone.

There is no doubt that they were taking a beating in comments as customers spoke loudly about their expectation: getting replacement for potentially faulty safety-critical parts.
The landing test being difficult to execute certainly doesn't help.

I hope they won't give up on the whole thing and still hope for a resolution. The reality check can be brutal, but there's no way around it.

Edited September 27, 2022 by supercurio

[Elliott Reitz]

Well as I reported here this morning, my wheel bricked itself today.  Showed Er 17 (hall effect sensor).  So I opened the motor expecting the worst. 

The good news was that the wiring is fine and the stator has not slipped.

One of the bearings is not smooth and should be replaced when I re-assemble (after adding the pins).  The seal for that same bearing wasn't fitted properly either - maybe that had something to do with its intermittent knocking/pop sound.  

The bad news is I think I need a new controller (again).

Edited September 28, 2022 by Elliott Reitz

[Elliott Reitz]

2 hours ago, Elliott Reitz said:

Well as I reported here this morning, my wheel bricked itself today.  Showed Er 17 (hall effect sensor).  So I opened the motor expecting the worst. 

The good news was that the wiring is fine and the stator has not slipped.

One of the bearings is not smooth and should be replaced when I re-assemble (after adding the pins).  The seal for that same bearing wasn't fitted properly either - maybe that had something to do with its intermittent knocking/pop sound.  

The bad news is I think I need a new controller (again).

Bricked:

GTFO!

 

[mrjuggles]

I would have rather they properly tested the motors to begin with.  I for one, would like that even more.

[Eucner]

14 hours ago, Funky said:

Would you not want your new wheels really hard tress tested before you buy it? I for one would like that. -That way you would know that wheel is somewhat robust. It won't fail you after 1-2 weeks.. Every wheel should be tested like that in my mind.

Of course I would want to have a tested wheel, but not destructively tested. In this case motors from known time period are very likely failing. The suggested test is hard to accomplish. If it is such a good test, why it needs to be done 15 times? How can I be sure doing it right? Can it fail at the 16th time? The only way to know is to repeat tests until something breaks. It can be the motor or something else.

It would have been better to make a recall for wheels manufactured before KS started fixing motors. They could have also offered an option for the owner to install motor pins with provided parts and instructions. The suggested test should be done after the motor is fixed.

[UniVehje]

Looks like there's a real risk of KS going bust because of this. They cannot afford to recall and replace thousands of motors. And if the failure rate becomes too big and we start seeing too many face plants because of a known fault, their reputation will take a devastating hit. It will be interesting to see how this affects dealers. Is this kind of known risk a warranty case or not? Do we have to wait for the motor to break before we get a new one under warranty? 

If you release a car that has a known <1 % failure rate in brakes there's no question all units will be recalled and fixed. The potential for a serious injury is too high. We have now a failure rate for the motor in the 15 % range so far. And we know that stress test doesn't always reveal the fault. And the test suggested by KS is extremely difficult for an average consumer to perform. 

[jrhz06]

11 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

Looks like there's a real risk of KS going bust because of this. They cannot afford to recall and replace thousands of motors. And if the failure rate becomes too big and we start seeing too many face plants because of a known fault, their reputation will take a devastating hit. It will be interesting to see how this affects dealers. Is this kind of known risk a warranty case or not? Do we have to wait for the motor to break before we get a new one under warranty? 

If you release a car that has a known <1 % failure rate in brakes there's no question all units will be recalled and fixed. The potential for a serious injury is too high. We have now a failure rate for the motor in the 15 % range so far. And we know that stress test doesn't always reveal the fault. And the test suggested by KS is extremely difficult for an average consumer to perform. 

How about qualified dealers doing the pinning retrofit?

[UniVehje]

17 minutes ago, jrhz06 said:

How about qualified dealers doing the pinning retrofit?

Why not. If KS pays for them to do it. 

I've now had my wheel out of my use for five weeks already because of a battery failure. I would hate to send the motor also to service for many weeks. I'd accept this option during the winter when I cannot ride. 

[Rawnei]

25 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

Looks like there's a real risk of KS going bust because of this. They cannot afford to recall and replace thousands of motors. And if the failure rate becomes too big and we start seeing too many face plants because of a known fault, their reputation will take a devastating hit. It will be interesting to see how this affects dealers. Is this kind of known risk a warranty case or not? Do we have to wait for the motor to break before we get a new one under warranty? 

If you release a car that has a known <1 % failure rate in brakes there's no question all units will be recalled and fixed. The potential for a serious injury is too high. We have now a failure rate for the motor in the 15 % range so far. And we know that stress test doesn't always reveal the fault. And the test suggested by KS is extremely difficult for an average consumer to perform. 

They had plenty of time to prepare motor replacements all this time when they were stalling.

Since July (or before) they already knew about the problem and fixed it in factory, at this point they could start shipping out as many replacement motors as they could produce to resellers before announcing anything so that people can easily get a new motor from their reseller at time of announcement (which is now 2 months later).

They know about the drill+pin fix, why not have a dialogue with resellers first and see which resellers would be able and willing to perform this type of retrofitting (for compensation of course), that might have saved a bunch of motors from failure.

As it is now the whole thing is handled very re-actively instead of pro-actively and it also brought them backlash from the community for understandable reasons.

[Robse]

38 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

Looks like there's a real risk of KS going bust because of this. They cannot afford to recall and replace thousands of motors. And if the failure rate becomes too big and we start seeing too many face plants because of a known fault, their reputation will take a devastating hit. It will be interesting to see how this affects dealers. Is this kind of known risk a warranty case or not? Do we have to wait for the motor to break before we get a new one under warranty? 

If you release a car that has a known <1 % failure rate in brakes there's no question all units will be recalled and fixed. The potential for a serious injury is too high. We have now a failure rate for the motor in the 15 % range so far. And we know that stress test doesn't always reveal the fault. And the test suggested by KS is extremely difficult for an average consumer to perform. 

Does Kingsong manufacture their engines themselves? As far as I can see, most engines on the market are made in approx. 
the same way, with the same pieces and even serial number marking, and even if it is China, there are probably rules
there that make it possible for Kingsong to pass on the responsibility to those who produced the crap, someone will have
to pay for the party...

[Mika47]

On 9/22/2022 at 12:47 AM, supercurio said:

Brand nouvelle roue, juste reçue mais moteur construit le 03 avril 😔

Bonjour, c'est mon S22, n'est-ce pas April Supercurio 😊.

La date sur le moteur est : 220306.

 

03 Jun ?

Ou le 6 mars ?

 

Sur le moteur, il y a un second autocollant sous un premier. Mais même date .. 220306.

[Rawnei]

4 minutes ago, Robse said:

Does Kingsong manufacture their engines themselves? As far as I can see, most engines on the market are made in approx. 
the same way, with the same pieces and even serial number marking, and even if it is China, there are probably rules
there that make it possible for Kingsong to pass on the responsibility to those who produced the crap, someone will have
to pay for the party...

I don't think any of the EUC companies manufacture the motors themselves, S22 motors are manufactured by a company called ZX I believe, same motor manufacturer also supplied motors for the Begode T4 (which seems to have the same problem).

Regarding supplier or subcontractor, responsibilities or fines or whatnot from what I understand it doesn't really work like that in China, there is no liability, this is what I heard could be wrong.

[Mika47]

On 9/22/2022 at 12:47 AM, supercurio said:

Brand new wheel, just received but motor built in on April 03 😔

Hello, this is my S22, isn't Avril Supercurio 😊.

The date on te motor is : 220306.

 

03 Jun ?

Or 06 March ?

 

On motor, there is a second sticker on a first. But same date .. 220306.

[oekmekci]

1 hour ago, Mika47 said:

Hello, this is my S22, isn't Avril Supercurio 😊.

The date on te motor is : 220306.

 

03 Jun ?

Or 06 March ?

 

On motor, there is a second sticker on a first. But same date .. 220306.

Perhaps sticker with the same date just indicate that the motor is updated by Kingsong

[meepmeepmayer]

220306 is very likely going to be March 6th. Nobody uses year-day-month, not even the usual suspects that use month-day-year. Chinese use year-month-day anyways.

So in my opinion it's a very early motor. Whether that is good (before the slippage issue) or bad (affected by the slippage issue) I don't know.

[Tawpie]

word on the street is that Feb motors have fewer failures, but that's totally fifth hand and probably fake news

 

[Elliott Reitz]

5 hours ago, Tawpie said:

word on the street is that Feb motors have fewer failures, but that's totally fifth hand and probably fake news

I have 21122100483.  I bought it last February via AlienRides auction.  Guessing it decodes to 2021, December 21st.  My S20 passed all stress tests and is now open because it bricked and reported a hall sense error (17).  There is no visible slippage - so I think it got lucky (while needing another controller).  I will install the pins while its open assuming I can get a working controller.  Some pics are on the public FB group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/134599833910471/permalink/1086023462101432/

[5Cauac]

Look at what came in the mail today!! 
A shiny new "S22" stamped motor manufactured on the 2nd day of July, 2022.   

In comparison, here is a photo of the original motor stamped "S20" manufactured on "Cinco de Mayo" 2022. (Wait, What!?) 

I still need to confirm I did in fact experience a stator slip by opening up the motor so stay tuned for that.

Does anyone know if they started stamping S22 starting in July or are there any motors stamped prior to July with S22 but known to have the stator issue?

 

[Elliott Reitz]

3 minutes ago, 5Cauac said:

Look at what came in the mail today!! 
A shiny new "S22" stamped motor manufactured on the 2nd day of July, 2022.   

I still need to confirm I did in fact experience a stator slip by opening up the motor so stay tuned for that.

Does anyone know if they started stamping S22 starting in July or are there any motors stamped prior to July with S22 but known to have the stator issue?

OMG you got a motherboard too?  Want to sell it?  I want a few of them since they fail so often. Anyone got a $ource for motherboards (besides my "warrentee" via dealer, they can't get parts very well either).

[Tawpie]

19 minutes ago, 5Cauac said:

Does anyone know if they started stamping S22 starting in July or are there any motors stamped prior to July with S22 but known to have the stator issue?

From what I've heard, the "fix" didn't go in until sometime in July, and yes, motors that have slipped were made before July