Begode T4

[RagingGrandpa]

1 hour ago, Archee Jan Bloch said:

[landing hard after spinning-up the motor during a jump]
every wheel will fail this

Umm... this is just normal when attempting big jump ramps with EUC. 
To say a 2022 design couldn't withstand it, is admitting the design is poor  
 

Edited September 23, 2022 by RagingGrandpa

[GoGeorgeGo]

1 hour ago, Archee Jan Bloch said:

we did about 160 miles on it before it occurred even though Go George Go had slippage on the hill, at the end of the day the wheel completely stopped balancing.. see my message below.. all the motors that are shipped with 1st batch of T4 are likely affected and need to be replaced.

to elaborate on this. during my test ride, i took the t4 over to a very steep offroad hill (probably 40-45 degrees or so). i took it from a standstill about 5 or 6 feet up and felt the motor slip. i thought it just skipped a magnet as it did not cutout i just felt like i overpowered the motor or maybe the tire slipped, but i was pretty sure it skipped a magnet like i just over torqued it.

i continued to ride the wheel without issue for quite a while afterwards so i just assumed the low end torque on the wheel was lackluster. (the same hill climb on my old exn or my ex20 would likely overpower and skip a magnet as well so i wasnt overly concerned by it)

i was a little suprised considering its a 16" wheel, i assumed it would be super torquey even with a high speed motor. but that test was not really a realistic riding condition going from a standstill up a 45 degree hill so i didnt really think much of it. i was not filming at the time of that little test i was just riding then unfortunately. 

now in retrospect perhaps i should have been more concerned with that slippage. Since just a day later the motor failed. 

[-iB-]

It seems to always be something with the first batches, huh?  I just hope that since Ewheels hasn't shipped out yet, they will hold the wheel until replacement motors can be used (if affected).  Sure, that means the wheel will probably get to me when snow starts to fall this year, but I'd still prefer that than faceplanting

[supercurio]

@Kevin Graehl (Alien Rides CTO) and I got in touch now for better knowledge sharing 👍

Edited September 23, 2022 by supercurio

[enaon]

I saw a video of a t4 with hall sensors fail, and the cable looks really bended. Can anyone confirm that there is indeed a steel spiral protecting the cable under this white thing?

[fbhb]

2 hours ago, enaon said:

Can anyone confirm that there is indeed a steel spiral protecting the cable under this white thing?

No, just bare cables under a white outer sheath (Master is also the same I believe, albeit a little further tucked away in the wheel) 

Denis Hagov commented on how poor a decision this is in his recent video:

 

[enaon]

18 hours ago, fbhb said:

No, just bare cables under a white outer sheath (Master is also the same I believe, albeit a little further tucked away in the wheel) 

Denis Hagov commented on how poor a decision this is in his recent video:

ok this is not funny anymore I think. So many reviewers saw the t4 and told us how amazing it is, how is it possible that only Hagov saw that they are crazy enouph to not install a spiral? 

Edited September 24, 2022 by enaon

[Biggane]

6 hours ago, enaon said:

ok this is not funny anymore I think. So many reviewers saw the t4 and told us how amazing it is, how is it possible that only Hagov saw that they are crazy enouph to not install a spiral? 

Agreed. It’s never a good idea to get a first batch wheel, but the reviews were phenomenal.

On another note, do dealers typically take these back? I definitely lack the skill (and interest) to try to replace the motor, etc. on this thing. 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Biggane

[UtahRider]

2 hours ago, Biggane said:

Agreed. It’s never a good idea to get a first batch wheel, but the reviews were phenomenal.

On another note, do dealers typically take these back? I definitely lack the skill (and interest) to try to replace the motor, etc. on this thing. 

And we shouldn’t have to, 1st batch or not. All this 1st batch problems is normal comments is just giving license to these manufacturers they can keep selling very dangerous PEVs. It’s a bad idea.

[RolluS]

Hello,

Yes, this is not normal. That would be like Tesla recalling cars for a brake failure, roof leak, or bumper that fly away. Oh wait...

Anyway, that's not normal. All these design cut or fails lead to customer problems, and I think no brands are really better there when reading forums, so what could we do? Stop buying EUC until they are checked according to an international standard which do not exist and will not likely because of this niche ?

Back to the motor failure: I've been told that Russian guy(s) drilled some holes and put screw. Anyone from here? Or does someone has information/links?

[Tawpie]

33 minutes ago, RolluS said:

Back to the motor failure: I've been told that Russian guy(s) drilled some holes and put screw. Anyone from here? Or does someone has information/links?

I saw the same info, before KS indicated that the motor supplier was doing something very similar (adding keys to lock the stator in place). I suspect the Russians did it themselves because they have less access to warranty and do it yourself is a way of life.

If you do have a distributor, you should't have to do this yourself. I'm starting to put this into the class of "design defect", not a simple assembly error.

This entire episode is becoming a case where the wheel got too powerful and too heavy for the older time tested assembly techniques. They were fine for smaller lighter less powerful wheels, but these new wheels are stressing the motors a lot more and exposing a need for improved design solutions. Let's hope that keying the stator is a satisfactory fix, I'm thinking it's a reasonable first step. But in the future, hopefully in future motor batches for S22 and T4, something a little less kludgy will appear (I am not 100% convinced that the key I've seen is sufficient as a long term go forward solution—it's better than glue alone, but there's still precious little material holding the stator in place. There will be a lot of force on that little bump… or three little bumps).

And hopefully LK and IM are all over their motor supplier making certain this doesn't happen to them!

At the rate we're going, the magnets themselves are going to get unstuck.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Tawpie

[RolluS]

I trust keys.

Any link to share @Tawpie please.

I might be of those who have small access to warranty (bought from chinese seller directly). If now, I will give himm props and kudos everywhere haha

[Tawpie]

30 minutes ago, RolluS said:

Any link to share @Tawpie please.

https://t.me/s20eagle/25524

[RolluS]

Thank you. I do like the idea. A hole, a key punched in. That's it.

[enaon]

11 minutes ago, RolluS said:

Thank you. I do like the idea. A hole, a key punched in. That's it.

there is a very valid concern about this and lamination shorting. 

[RolluS]

Good point. So... The key shall be insulated in epoxy to avoid local heating or thermal warping?

[Funky]

23 hours ago, enaon said:

ok this is not funny anymore I think. So many reviewers saw the t4 and told us how amazing it is, how is it possible that only Hagov saw that they are crazy enouph to not install a spiral? 

In first place it's a reviews - you don't need to listen to everything they say. You got your own brain and only you can tell how good is the product.

 Yes ride quality T4 is simply amazing - i can agree to that. Same to more metal build. But that's that.. Build quality still is meh.. And in general it's still the same ol' same ol' gotway average quality. Nothing amazing.

I for sure would not want to buy/own it.  

[techyiam]

11 minutes ago, enaon said:

there is a very valid concern about this and lamination shorting. 

How about using titanium pins?

[RolluS]

Just now, techyiam said:

How about using titanium pins?

May still (or steel haha) result in a modal distortion or frequency hook. I think including some dampening in the assembly is good here. It could also be some polyurethan material with good shear strength

[techyiam]

58 minutes ago, RolluS said:

May still (or steel haha) result in a modal distortion or frequency hook.

Even if true, with strategic placement of the pins, are the distortions still going to be significantly enough to forego the pinning method with titanium pins (not steel pins). 

[enaon]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

in general it's still the same ol' same ol' gotway

I think that they have taken their game a level up.

[enaon]

1 hour ago, RolluS said:

Good point. So... The key shall be insulated in epoxy to avoid local heating or thermal warping?

I am reluctant to try answering as I lack knowledge, sounds reasonable though. 

[RolluS]

Very interesting:

@techyiam idea with titanium pin is good as non-magnetic material.

11 hours ago, RolluS said:

May still (or steel haha) result in a modal distortion or frequency hook. I think including some dampening in the assembly is good here. It could also be some polyurethan material with good shear strength

After thinking twice, this might not be as clever as I thought 😇

[daniel1234]

On 9/23/2022 at 2:31 PM, supercurio said:

Thanks for posting, that's the sound to look for on the T4.

The scraping sound is different than on the S22 and present itself as clicks, I guess against some pattern, but if you ride this your wheel will cutout quickly after, burn its board and send you to the ground.

It's absurd that wheels are shipped in this very obviously defective state. I don't understand how it would pass any form of QA.

 

That is the principal problem of Chinese manufacturing - there are no post-production tests! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_assurance

The same situation as with the first batch of masters(where I was test pilot), they made wheels in a big batch and hope for the best. I really love EUC and give this hobby a lot of money and my time, but now I am getting more and more scared. Current manufacturing practices of EUC will lead to permanent health damage or loss of life. There is no point in investing into brand new EUC if the quality is worst than in the last generation.

I think most of reputable resellers need to invest in testing equipment like high-performance Dynamometers to verify each unit, or don't sell first batch of EUCs. 

 

[Funky]

11 hours ago, enaon said:

I think that they have taken their game a level up.

Yes they have now better build quality - all metal frame and what not. But overall it's still average - at least in my mind. (Talking about motherboard and so on.. No water protection whatsoever, at least one of the worst in euc's.)

But overall it is gotten better. Maybe in 2-4 years they will release something that i actually would like.