Begode T4

[buffs]

1 hour ago, RolluS said:

Now this is a great news in my humble opinion:

 

good news for future owners, but what happens to the people that already have one?

[RolluS]

30 minutes ago, buffs said:

good news for future owners, but what happens to the people that already have one?

We have two years for it to fail?

 

[buffs]

42 minutes ago, RolluS said:

We have two years for it to fail?

 

The extra warranty is good, but I'd prefer to have the motor replaced proactively, rather than after it has failed and I've been injured.

[RolluS]

Absolutely,I agree, I was ironic  

[daniel1234]

I got mine T4 yesterday :

- Zippiness is nice even with that c30 HS motor. That "begode torquiness" feeling is there.

- Form factor is comfortable for city ride at 30-55 km/h. Surprisingly no wooable.

- Usable tyre, terrible pedals.

- Unfortunately motor sometimes makes weird noises :(.  But only at certain speeds. I did just a small spin test - it will take some time and tests until I trust that wheel ...

Any tips on how to properly test T4 for potential hub issues? Did anybody tried V2 firmware from begode app ?

 

[RolluS]

For some reasons, I've only been able to flash V1 firmware on top of the previous T4_HB firmware. As soon as I try V2 firmware, the wheel switch off by itself. Entering manually in bootloader mode and/or holding power button won't help.

I don't care as I enjoy each ride. I'd just like the control board to give less timing to the motor under certain conditions so it would not whistling that much.

I don't know of a consensus for the test. I think landing test as been considered as the most revealing one. See @supercuriotopics on S22/T4 motor failures.

[daniel1234]

Seems I should stop ordering new begode V1 wheels. I managed to slip the T4 stator on the steep incline. My wheel has less than 60 km . I pushed the wheel from a standstill to 70 percent PWM, on an incline. Nothing that my s18 would not handle. Pedals felt for a moment "lose' like on water and I heard some clang - so I stopped riding it and went home.

No nosedive just weird noises so far - I think the cable is hitting the shell of hub motor. Still, it balances well so far. I am waiting for a response from the seller.

I am sooo sad, since it was really fun ripping hills with it. If you waiting for something for months and it fails so early is kind of depressing.

[EMA]

16 minutes ago, daniel1234 said:

Seems I should stop ordering new begode V1 wheels. I managed to slip the T4 stator on the steep incline. My wheel has less than 60 km . I pushed the wheel from a standstill to 70 percent PWM, on an incline. Nothing that my s18 would not handle. Pedals felt for a moment "lose' like on water and I heard some clang - so I stopped riding it and went home.

No nosedive just weird noises so far - I think the cable is hitting the shell of hub motor. Still, it balances well so far. I am waiting for a response from the seller.

I am sooo sad, since it was really fun ripping hills with it. If you waiting for something for months and it fails so early is kind of depressing.

it's not about Begode (not even their fault this time), every component change in the EUC history is a failure, T4 is all build from trusted components except for the motor...

just wait and receive the new one from the other manufacturer

Edited October 14, 2022 by EMA

[supercurio]

51 minutes ago, daniel1234 said:

Seems I should stop ordering new begode V1 wheels. I managed to slip the T4 stator on the steep incline. My wheel has less than 60 km . 

Since a significant percentage of T4 units suffer from the stator slippage issue and it can lead to a dangerous crash (glad it didn't in your case), it's time to consider stress testing all T4 units before riding them.

Here's the test as validated by King Song for the S22 (no promise tho, they didn't share much result data)

 

[Funky]

38 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Since a significant percentage of T4 units suffer from the stator slippage issue and it can lead to a dangerous crash (glad it didn't in your case), it's time to consider stress testing all T4 units before riding them.

Here's the test as validated by King Song for the S22 (no promise tho, they didn't share much result data)

 

Are those "test" even worth doing???? (I don't know how the motor is held together - glue, screws, welds...)

Even if you pass the "test". Can't the slippage happen like 1-2 years later? Out of nowhere? Motor simply gave in out of nowhere.

I for sure would not trust S22/T4 anymore... Even if they are "fixed", doesn't mean they have 100% replaced all the motors. One bad motor can go true "quality control". As we know they don't have those.  

[supercurio]

@Funky this test creates a momentary overpower impulse situation, where the controller applies the maximum current and torque it's capable of to the motor in order to restore level.

I don't think it's possible to say that it guarantees that the motors won't slip later especially in different conditions (temperatures), but it should identify bad ones which will lead to a failure or a crash when the user is riding, since it's very tough compared to normal riding conditions: more akin to repeated worst case landing on jumps.

Agree that replacing motors to ones which can't present this defect - or improve the motor by adding a mechanical key is better, if available or possible.

Edited October 14, 2022 by supercurio

[daniel1234]

I think t4 has enough torque on the hard mode, that can be slipped on big inclines - stairs. I did a landing test(as supercurio showed ) and a small spin test without failure. I thought I was a lucky one. 

I recommend caution. And checking the hub periodically before the ride. Seems like hub first starts to rattle - before you tear apart wires and damage something. Seems like there are T4 with good hubs. 

Being an early adopter of EUC is a really weird uneconomical hobby. I am waiting for hub to V1 master (what is already heavily modified to keep it running) and now this T4 experience.  
Even if they send hub in a month or something, there will be snow outside already. There are still crappy pedals, the shock needs replacement ... handle ...  rollcage ...

For the price of master + t4 I could get suron ... kinda feeling now like an idiot. Seems like s22/v12 users must be pissed in the same way.

[supercurio]

4 minutes ago, daniel1234 said:

I think t4 has enough torque on the hard mode, that can be slipped on big inclines - stairs. I did a landing test(as supercurio showed ) and a small spin test without failure. I thought I was a lucky one. 

Thanks for the feedback. How many landings did you complete in your test?

4 minutes ago, daniel1234 said:

I recommend caution. And checking the hub periodically before the ride. Seems like hub first starts to rattle - before you tear apart wires and damage something. Seems like there are T4 with good hubs. 

Noises and vibrations work to identify some issues (worked on my S22) but some occurrences can be sudden, so that's to keep in mind.

4 minutes ago, daniel1234 said:

Being an early adopter of EUC is a really weird uneconomical hobby. I am waiting for hub to V1 master (what is already heavily modified to keep it running) and now this T4 experience.  
Even if they send hub in a month or something, there will be snow outside already. There are still crappy pedals, the shock needs replacement ... handle ...  rollcage ...

For the price of master + t4 I could get suron ... kinda feeling now like an idiot. Seems like s22/v12 users must be pissed in the same way.

Yes, the system is broken at the moment. Needs fixing.

[daniel1234]

5 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Thanks for the feedback. How many landings did you complete in your test?

3 times - I think I was not able to stop wheel immediately as you with S22 (I am light person - 75 kg - I was holding from pull-up bar), so maybe that's why it didn't slip there. 

I left some rubber and scorch marks on the ground.

[supercurio]

Thanks a lot for the details @daniel1234 🙏
Although King Song QA found the landing test effective, as a community we still need to confirm that. That can only be done by testing enough wheels and track if any that passed the stress test fail later.

[bracky72]

I made a protective bumper/kickstand for the T4 and put it on thingiverse.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5563862

 

 

[Flying W]

@bracky72 nice car man! 

[Cerbera]

Looks stoned from front-on, or like it might be about to make me play some sort of horrible game  Perhaps that's more apposite than we'd think ! 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Cerbera

[daniel1234]

On 10/14/2022 at 4:03 PM, supercurio said:

Thanks a lot for the details @daniel1234 🙏
Although King Song QA found the landing test effective, as a community we still need to confirm that. That can only be done by testing enough wheels and track if any that passed the stress test fail later.

I think the only reasonable way how to test slippage is via static pull under load. We would need to have rig with a scale for that. And know exactly when to stop, and go to the edge. 

I feel like I have a need to warn the community before new wheels. I am afraid this is not just a Begode problem. I took apart my T4, is 3th day no response from begode, and is nice outside :(. Perfect weather to ride and enjoy.

Make your own picture - a few minutes from taking a spill. Worst thing is that I needed to take the whole wheel apart to see hub so I saw a lot of horrors. Motor is just beginning of what is waiting for us. This is worse than Master V1. Not sure If I have skills to fix that. 

I did drill into armature as s22 guys ... there is 1mm gap between the armature and stator ferrite. Even if there is glue - there is no real contact area. Only at the edge - not sure if this was intention / failure / design flaw. Wheel is smaller than s22 one. Rim is smaller. Less contact area ...  I tried something with carbon rod ... meh I dont believe I fixed that ... wheel spinning but I am scared to ride it. I need to buy laser guided laser drill - To get it mounted securely -> I need somehow make teeth and bite into the stator. 

Another problem is getting stator out of hub and back - I don't think anybody should do what I am doing - but just sitting and waiting is killing me. There are some pics at FB group.

Not sure if begode even have the resources to give me all parts needed. It would be easier if they would send me some older wheel that works, until they figure out design issues. I hope I be lucky and get at least new motor in weeks. I am sure nobody will test them. More danger, more fun? And I will need new sliders or figure out why they locking up. And the majority of screws were lose with Loctite on ... worst from both worlds. It makes a weird loose ride feeling since the pedals are not firmly connected with the wheel. I thought they figured out from V1 master, but nope.

There is a lot of work needed to be done on T4. Wear all gear while riding T4 ! 

Good thing: you should not able to slip it quietly - there is enough slack in the cable so motor wires gets lose first. That loud klinging noise is an indication that wire insulation hitting the motor sheel. If I would not be automation engineer who works with bigger engines - I could ride that wheel home and get hurt. It is not easy to push t4 home.... you will have urges to ride just few meters because it still works ... don't !

I really hope that I have worst luck on bad T4 - and others are made in better way. Please share your experience! 

I am not sure if there EUC out there that would fill my needs for safety and longevity. I hope begode wont charge me for all parts I need now- but realistically this wheel is not what I wanted. Not what was promoted. It feels weaker then Rs19. When I see datasheet of the mosfets they are slower and I would like to discuss with somebody PCB design. I don't think this is cost-effective at all. Seems like they used whatever was around.

The situation in China is not easy - I get that. I hope there will be some conversation about what is possible to do us, early adopters. If I should test wheels I need some diagnostic interface, plans and some timely support to get stuff sorted out.  Anyway if us crazy early adopters get hurt, we will find different extreme toys... life is way to short. I will have engineering nightmares about High-speed stator slippage on breaking. 

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by daniel1234

[techyiam]

34 minutes ago, daniel1234 said:

I don't think this is cost-effective at all. Seems like they used whatever was around.

This is something that others may not comprehend until they have actually gone through the experience, and then see the light.

I have worked on my T3, and have watched numerous disassembly videos of Gotway/Begode wheels. I also have worked on my V12. It is so clear how inferior Begode's wheels are built as compared to the V12, IMO. Not to say the V12 is anything spectacular; it is just that the current euc quality standard is so low.

Mind you, my T3 is very reliable. But that doesn't mean it is durable or well engineered. As a learner's wheel, it is great. But as a personal transportation device, I would be much more careful with my choices.

It is still possible for me to buy a Begod wheel, but that can only happen after a lot of scrutiny, and overall, no other wheel can offer more.

Having said that, the S22 can be considered worse in this regard. Which basically leave us with Inmotion and Leaper Kim.

But the V12 and the Abrams weren't flawless either. But their built quality and fit and finish, are generally better.

My conclusion, as well as many others, is that buying earlier batches are for those who don't mind being a Guinea pig, but not paid to do so. In fact, you have to pay to play. For others, there will be buyer remorse galore.

 

[daniel1234]

2 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Not to say the V12 is anything spectacular; it is just that the current euc quality standard is so low.

 

Is V12 so much better than t3 ? I am seriously thinking about leaving begode team now  fuck suspension. T4 suspension need like 500 bucks investment + angle grinder time, I dont see advantages. Master had better suspension....

[-iB-]

Looks like e-wheels orders got bumped to ship out late Nov, which most certainly points to the fact they will be shipping out wheels that are not first batch. Itll be the thick of winter for me by then... but at least ill be more at ease with the state of my wheel, which is the most imoportant part anyhow .

[bracky72]

My very first ride on my T4 I grabbed at the rear and pulled the seat up.  I was annoyed to say the lease.  The metal strip embedded into the bottom of the seat looks like a weak point to me anyways so back to my computer and 3d printer.

 

Here is the T4 Seat Plug.  My backside does not feel it while riding seated.  I'm very happy with this fix.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5568997

[Cerbera]

14 minutes ago, techyiam said:

My conclusion, as well as many others, is that buying earlier batches are for those who don't mind being a Guinea pig, but not paid to do so. In fact, you have to pay to play. For others, there will be buyer remorse galore.

Yes, well said. It is only places like this forum and youtube that stand between any old joe off the street thinking their shiny new 'toy' will be as safe and fool-proof as any other consumer gadget they may buy, and them being made aware of just how much this isn't the case, and how much they need to research and check before they can reasonably feel 'safe'.

 

[techyiam]

12 minutes ago, daniel1234 said:

Is V12 so much better than t3 ?

Oh yeah.

Watch "IT Monkey" YouTube video on the T3. See how much he curses in the video. It is basically a really cheap design that wasn't designed to be serviced. On the other hand, not only is the V12 is more properly designed, and built, but it was designed to be serviced. 

To appreciate how much better the V12 is better designed and built than the T3, one really needs to have worked on both. A technical background could help too.

20 minutes ago, daniel1234 said:

Master had better suspension....

It does? I thought the T4 bottom out less?