Inmotion V13 Speculation

[UPONIT]

FWIW:

PROs:

My V13's shocks are super cushy and comfortable. I'm 230 geared up and shocks are each at 190lb, damping all the way off. I can hit curbs without any pre-lift and it's like the curb isn't there. Dropping off ditto. I've almost screwed up the courage to go down some stair sets. Almost...

Having said that, I keep going back and forth between suspension and no-suspension. For all of its comfortable floatiness when suspended, the V13 just handles a TON more sprightly without the suspension, I assume 100% because of the geometry that results from the much lower COG. Every scenario is easier to accelerate without suspension. It is a 30 minute process to remove/install the suspension. AR gave me a suspension delete kit because they are no longer included, and InMotion considers them an early bird bonus item. Whatever. Current status: suspension on. 

Pedal "softness" 30-40%. Power Assistant ON. Accelerate Assist: 35%. Braking Assist: 45%. As mentioned elsewhere, the Power Assistants basically make the pedals dip backwards when braking and forward when accelerating, presumably to help get your weight in front of, or behind the centerline. When suspended, this doesn't increase ease of braking or accelerating nearly as much as when suspension is out.

Stable. S T A B L E ride.

I changed back and forth a few times between the knobby and the Michelin 2, and have settled on the Michelin for now. Those knobby grooves bug me. Although both tires have pros and cons discussed elsewhere.

I don't know why people are hating on the kickstand (yes it should be included!). It works fine, except on inclines or strong wind, and doesn't get in the way. Yeah, the V13 is a tall sucker, so upright looks more majestic, but whatyagonnado?

THIS WHEEL IS BUILT SO WELL I COULD RAVE ABOUT IT FOR DAYS. Every single piece was well thought out and well-selected. 

Headlight is amazing. Wheel is nice and narrow. Trolley handle feels like solid metal and works well. Pedals are big and comfortable. Stock pads are good, but not as good as 3rd party.

CONs:

Perfection isn't possible. Out of the box, the charger board (?) (behind the taillight) was throwing errors and wheel wouldn't charge. AR replaced board after InMotion diagnosis. Took 20 minutes to replace. InMotion was very responsive. Modularity makes everything SUPER easy to work on. Even the boards are beautiful. Colored black and potted. 

Low-end torque. Anti-torque. A frustrating mystery on a wheel with a 4500W motor. If I start up a steep hill from a dead stop, I have to jump on tiptoes on the front of the pedals and lean forward 90 degrees with arms outstretched and freeweights in hand to get it to mush upwards. WHY? I've experimented with all combos of Power Assist and Pedal Softness. To the point where I know some of the settings worked better than others, but I have yet to figure out the magic combo. Maybe it is just the combined 350lbs of weight that prevents accelerating up an incline?  After a bit of lag, the wheel definitely wakes up and has plenty of power to climb, but it should just have more gumption. The "problem" is GREATLY reduced when suspension is removed. Can firmware fix this?! @mrelwood? @Forwardnbak?

BONUS:

The greater effort it takes to handle this big wheel has had an unexpected, awesome side-effect! After riding the V13 exclusively for a few months, when I ride my V12HT, it now feels like a zippy speed demon. It is now as easy as the Mten4 to my retrained muscle memory. I can ride backwards (for a short distance, getting better) and idle for almost a minute with no specific practice for either. I can do 180s on a dime and just toss it around in general ! Confidence and skill definitely boosted to 11. 

Who knew?

 

 

 

[Planemo]

8 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

The "problem" is GREATLY reduced when suspension is removed.

I think a lot of people under estimate this aspect of suspension wheels and I think you are right, it's all down to suspension wheels having the higher pedal height ie geometry.

When I first got on my EX30 I nearly fell over the front trying to get it moving. And even once moving it didn't respond nearly as quickly as the Sherman. My immediate thought was 'so much for all this power and huge C40 motor'. I would never go back to non-suspension now, but for sure, getting sus wheels off the line is a LOT more effort. Almost like comparing the Sherman to something like a V5F! Like you, I have tried all manner of riding modes etc. Of course we can all get used to it pretty quick but it's not until you get back on a non-sus wheel you realise how little you need to work for it.

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, UPONIT said:

FWIW:

Thanks for the magnificent review! You bring up several aspects I haven’t seen others do.

2 hours ago, UPONIT said:

Low-end torque. Anti-torque. A frustrating mystery on a wheel with a 4500W motor.

Not that much of a mystery.

Power: All the 4500W of power is being used for staying upright, not for accelerating. Even if it had a 100000W motor, it would behave the same. It would just stay upright better. Just like a stereo system. For comfortable background music it doesn’t matter if it’s a 10W or a 100000W amp, it will play just as quietly. Only when you exceed the power capabilities does it make a difference (around 13000W peak power on the V13).

2 hours ago, UPONIT said:

WHY?

Effort of acceleration: I’ve made a few videos about this. #1 thing is wheel geometry. A large wheel diameter requires that much more effort to accelerate. On a 22” wheel you need to lean 22% further than on a 18” wheel for the same amount of acceleration. (22/18=1.22… Exact tire diameters not considered.) This is also why the Mten is so attractive, it reacts instantly to acceleration.

I knew the moment I heard of the V13 being a 22” wheel that a lot of people would have this exact surprise on their hands.

 Then there are the wheel weight, pedal height, tire pressure, knobby vs street tire, rider weight, rider height, and Firmware programming:

2 hours ago, UPONIT said:

I've experimented with all combos of Power Assist and Pedal Softness.

202*100*100+202 = 2 020 202. Really??? How much time did it take you?  But seriously, once you get a better understanding on what the settings do exactly and what you should try, you will find a better setup.

 This video should help you. With one difference though: The acceleration and braking assist work the other way around on V10/V11/V12, and their exact response is different. But the basic concept remains.

I do recommend measuring and adjusting your suspension sag more precisely as well.

2 hours ago, UPONIT said:

Can firmware fix this?! @mrelwood? @Forwardnbak?

Not really, not much more than what the sensitivity adjustments can do already.

 

2 hours ago, Planemo said:

Like you, I have tried all manner of riding modes etc.

Well, the EX30 has three (or six nowadays?), so it’s quite fast to go through them all…

Begodes are generally tuned very stiff, so they do require a lot of effort to accelerate. Pedal height of suspension wheels on top of that makes for one stiff ride. The SherMax at least was programmed VERY soft, as if it had the Inmotion acceleration assists halfway up. Of course it accelerates easier.

2 hours ago, Planemo said:

Of course we can all get used to it pretty quick but it's not until you get back on a non-sus wheel you realise how little you need to work for it.

I don’t have the same experience with the V11. I used to ride the MSX, then switched to V11, and a year later rode a day with the MSP HT. With the settings I have on my V11, it takes a good bit less effort to accelerate than with either of the non suspended GotWays. But it does take a bit of effort to go through the process of learning the settings and only after that finding out the ones that with the best for you.

On the V13, try the comfort mode and hardness and assists halfway for a starting point. But do check the video above so you’d know where to go from there.

[onewheelkoregro]

Does anyone have any specs for the V13Y I heard rumors about it but no one has anything? They released specs for the V11Y I was wondering if they did the same for the V13

[novazeus]

10 hours ago, UPONIT said:

I don't know why people are hating on the kickstand (yes it should be included!).

i love the kickstand! the v13 is almost unmanageable without it. a slight tremor would make mine fall over where it's siiting now on it's front bars.

i just know that nice sturdy kickstand can bite u when bailing, like when u accidentally press the lock button while rolling down the highway. that sb disabled.

but yeah, great review. going up and back on my little 3km road, i start and stop alot, as u can imagine having over 1500miles now. but i just stop, grab a rail, and i have a tendency to make sure nothing is in front of the michelin 2, and it's on pavement, then i push off. pedal settings all as hard as i can make them. i don't like dips. my heart doesn't like dips, but if u ride a v13, i've had a few, but mostly because the tire was going flat, like down to 35psi. i fill to about 48 and let it leak for a few days. 48/45 feels about the same.

[novazeus]

just rode the new one. yeah, definitely need a kickstand, i'll pad it too.

but omg, this is how my first one should have been. i know every hole, root whatever on my rd, and this is by far the smoothest of all my wheels and it's not tire because it's inflated to 45psi and the center nubs are already not noticeable. i like this knobby tire. which is good because i have the spare from the first one.

yeah, compared to the other pricing, this new customer promo for 3419.20 delivered, is hard to beat for this quality. but make sure u ask for a kickstand.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

this is how my first one should have been. i know every hole, root whatever on my rd, and this is by far the smoothest of all my wheels

Shouldn't your S22 with roller sliders, and a softer spring rate give a cushier ride?

[novazeus]

4 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Shouldn't your S22 with roller sliders, and a softer spring rate give a cushier ride?

i haven't put the ball bearing replacements kingsong sent me thru freemotion.

i mean, with just me lubricating with remoil, the stock sliders are bad on pavement, but this new v13 is very different from the first one. both set at 200psi, about 1/2" sag, but the old one is just stiffer, which is great, like a sports car. 

pedals without having the hanger dead center would be great. a inch towards the rear would be fantastic. 

if u haven't tried a v13 lately, and u get a chance, try it. the new ones have fixed spikes in the pedals.

[techyiam]

6 minutes ago, novazeus said:

if u haven't tried a v13 lately, and u get a chance, try it. the new ones have fixed spikes in the pedals.

Thanks. Good to know.

I have tried the first batch on pavement, and I thought it was pretty smooth already.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

40 minutes ago, novazeus said:

the new ones have fixed spikes in the pedals.

I thought you got a batch 2 wheel around the same time i did. I didn't even know they made pedals with removable spikes. That's interesting. Mine were always part of the pedal. I'd be curious to see what they looked like, but going back on the previous threads. You always had the pedals up.

[Forwardnbak]

Fancy is kind of available..

This was the answer I got asking if they will roll it out to the public -

"if someone want to have the fancier mode on the V13 ,  contact their seller first, and also need to sign the agreement about remove the speed limit. 

It can only be done via a remote session with IM"

I do actually agree here, this thing is already crazy enough without new riders dying. 

 

[novazeus]

17 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I thought you got a batch 2 wheel around the same time i did. I didn't even know they made pedals with removable spikes. That's interesting. Mine were always part of the pedal. I'd be curious to see what they looked like, but going back on the previous threads. You always had the pedals up.

yeah, i don't like spikes so i took the little cap screws out immediately and slapped on some grizzla anti slip. mine had the removable screws and the suspension delete kit. the new one does not. i got mine on st patrick's day, 3-17.

i think i'm gonna take some thin yoga mat i have, two sided tape it to the spiked pedal, then grizzla over the yoga mat. any extra cushioning is always welcomed.

[novazeus]

i just saw this on fb. i swear this is what my new one feels like. hydraulic. i bet my new one has this new type of shock, which is fantasic! plus if i can change out the old ones, that would be amazing. 

now to get fancy mode.

I love my V13 air shocks are not bad but I heard that Inmotion is putting hydraulic shocks in the new v11 version and I think I heard someone say they may be making some for the V13 is that a rumor? will they send those out to all V 13 owners free of charge 

Edited September 28, 2023 by novazeus

[Punxatawneyjoe]

1 minute ago, Forwardnbak said:

I do actually agree here, this thing is already crazy enough without new riders dying.

I completely agree, and understandable considering it can do 58 mph before unlock. Thanks for asking about it. I might inquire about it myself. I don't want to be the guy that breaks the 58 mph that @OMGitsRAAZ demonstrated on it. That's for sure, i've been 54 and that is way faster than i want to go on the reg. I would definitely like more low end torque though for off roading. And i would also like to do another pull test with it unlocked and my pull point changed. But like you know it's super dangerous at those speeds, your leaning so far forward just to counter the wind that you could overlean it in a heartbeat.

23 minutes ago, novazeus said:

i got mine on st patrick's day, 3-17.

I got mine on valentines day 2-14 (just looked it up)

26 minutes ago, novazeus said:

i think i'm gonna take some thin yoga mat i have, two sided tape it to the spiked pedal

I have to admit, i do enjoy the fact you like to do the opposite as most people do to their EUC's. It's always healthy to explore all options. I would be face planting in a second with no pads and yoga mat on my pedals. It's impressive you can ride it without pads. I feel like they are a must for me though to pull those 90+ amp accelerations, you know to catch up to traffic...

[novazeus]

13 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I have to admit, i do enjoy the fact you like to do the opposite as most people do to their EUC's. It's always healthy to explore all options. I would be face planting in a second with no pads and yoga mat on my pedals. It's impressive you can ride it without pads. I feel like they are a must for me though to pull those 90+ amp accelerations, you know to catch up to traffic...

yeah, the end uses for euc's are as varied as humans are. when ur yard is 300 football fields, anything to save footsteps is greatly appreciated. and ur package deliveries are 3km away.

plus it's excellent exercise. especially riding n the pastures. i can't wait to try this new one out there. i swear, my first impression pulling this thing out of the styrofoam that the suspension was different. tmrw i'll try to shoot a comparison video. idk if it's detectable on the video but the feel is night and day.

[novazeus]

u know, these pads and spiked pedals are relatively new. i remember when @Rehab1modified his pedals and i didn't like that idea then either. 

i want a clean dismount if things go wonky. all u gotta do is look at this forum with the broken bones, marty's comes to mind. especially now that they are so heavy. 

haha, i can remember trying to learn this damn v13 with the michelin street 2 pumped up to 47 or so and falling over at a stop and practically being pinned under the v13. i was laughing thinking this would never happen with 9bot. it took me 150 miles to get comfy on the kingsongs, took a thousand miles to get comfy on the v13, but once u master it, riding the kingsongs just aren't the same. just love the ergonomics of the v13.

the ks-22 is a better wagon dragger though. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by novazeus

[mrelwood]

 

On 9/27/2023 at 10:50 PM, novazeus said:

pedal settings all as hard as i can make them. i don't like dips.

Pedal settings are not “dips”. At least not any more than the difference between various wheels, or the firmware update you’re hoping to fix the acceleration “issue”. Slamming all to the max without trying to find the best settings for you may make you miss quite a lot.

21 hours ago, novazeus said:

pedals without having the hanger dead center would be great. a inch towards the rear would be fantastic.

Towards the rear?? Is your heel hanging behind the pedal? If that’s the case, no wonder the acceleration is lazy! The S22 has the pedals forward from center, which is how most riders set their feet on the pedals.

19 hours ago, novazeus said:

i just saw this on fb. i swear this is what my new one feels like. hydraulic. i bet my new one has this new type of shock, which is fantasic!

It doesn’t. The “hydraulic” shock Bob the CEO was talking about is expected to be equipped on the possibly upcoming V13Y. They are a complete and a completely different kind of system, replacing the sliders, air shock, damper, and the connection points on top and bottom. They won’t fit the og V13.

 Can’t help thinking that you might’ve tightened the rails a bit too much on your first V13.

[novazeus]

well, whatever, i meant like the s22 where u can move the pedal forward and lower. like i've stated numerous times. but the pedals on the v13 are dead center of the chassis so i have an inch of pedal at the rear untouched and my feet hanging off the front. i guess whati meant is, if u had a pedal, with the cut out for the hanger, one inch towards the rear, that would move the pedal front, one inch further forward. like if u were making me new pedals, i'd say, here's the old ones, move the cut out for the hanger one inch further back, which would give me more forward bias, excactly like what kingsong thought of with the s22. finally they figured out our legs aren't in the center of our feet. maybe in china they are, idk.

and on the shocks, i'm thinking it's my dampers on the first one that aren't right like the guy over in new port richey that got his at the same time. his was screwed up from the factory as well. i just don't have time to screw with it now, but i think it's the dampers screwed up somehow. been that way out of the box. actually i had to tepair one shock that wasn't even bolted in. so much for dealer tlc. it's still too hot to ride here, so i'll wait until the street tire v13 is needing a change, and then i'll dig into it. the new one is night and day. gotta be the dampers.

and i'm determined to make it work in the pasture and i just did a test ride to my windmill and back, the windmill is on a hill and it is weak. it will make it but not exactly inspiring.

here's a sketch if ur having a hard time imagining what manufacturers should do.

Edited September 28, 2023 by novazeus

[novazeus]

23 hours ago, novazeus said:

having the hanger dead center

an inch towards the rear, the hanger, not the pedal. an inch towards the rear would mean the pedal would be an inch further forward.

[novazeus]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

The S22 has the pedals forward from center, which is how most riders set their feet on the pedals.

not stock it doesn't. there's a youtube video teaching u how to move the pedals forwards. took me about an hour. 

s22 the same as delivered, but it does have hanger cut outs moved an inch towards the rear.

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by novazeus

[Hellkitten]

@novazeus not sure if it will work on the V13 pedal design, but some people swap left and right sides and get a better position.  

[novazeus]

1 hour ago, Hellkitten said:

@novazeus not sure if it will work on the V13 pedal design, but some people swap left and right sides and get a better position.  

no, the v13 are symetrical. i'd, groan, buy aftermarket if the cut out in the pedal is moved an inch rearwards. makes it much easier to drive with ur feet. 

[novazeus]

when it cools off a bit, without tearing into my original one, i'm gonna screw around with the dampers and the sliders and see if i can get it to feel like this new one. it was pretty amazing feeling the suspension following all these holes in the pasture. 

shot this at the top of my hill today.

not a very steep hill at all, maybe 20 degrees.

 

[novazeus]

v13 pedals difference.

 

[novazeus]

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Can’t help thinking that you might’ve tightened the rails a bit too much on your first V13.

no, it was like this before i snugged up one side.(that did reduce the rattle)i'm wondering if the oil trick inside the air shock, makes the piston inside move freer. haha, i mean it's really a noticable difference. not that the street one is bad, but this new one is the way the first one should have been. good to know that it's probably fixable and inmotion is suppose to warrant them. if i had the money, and i could get a new one with a street tire, like this one for 3419.20, i'd buy another one. i think this new one is the only one that the suspension works as it should.