Inmotion V13 Speculation

[2disbetter]

Yeah I think if you are staying at speeds around 26 mph, heat on the batteries shouldn't be too bad. But when you are pushing speeds like 40+ mph and aggressive stopping and going you are going to be moving a lot more current and that will cause heat. 

Still if the glitch was heat related then it is preventable. Good to know about for sure. 

Remember though, ambient temperature is one thing, but that humidity is the main issue. 

I remember in Florida it would say that it was 89 but with the humidity the heat index was usually 110 or higher. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by 2disbetter

[trailless]

11 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

Yeah I think if you are staying at speeds around 26 mph, heat on the batteries shouldn't be too bad. But when you are pushing speeds like 40+ mph and aggressive stopping and going you are going to be moving a lot more current and that will cause heat. 

Still if the glitch was heat related then it is preventable. Good to know about for sure. 

Remember though, ambient temperature is one thing, but that humidity is the main issue. 

I remember in Florida it would say that it was 89 but with the humidity the heat index was usually 110 or higher. 

Yesterday I was riding more aggressively than the day before when I got the error, and it was hotter yesterday. The average riding speed of 26mph is what was calculated by the wheel. I ride in a very urban environment, downtown/midtown Atlanta, with a lot of traffic and stop lights. It's a lot of of stop and go riding, can't cruise for miles at a time... I hit a top speed of 48mph and was cruising at 40mph+ whenever I could. 

[sWiFt]

15 hours ago, trailless said:

Yeah, it was on 80%

Im not sure, I can pull some science out of my ass tho..

I´ve lowered the break assist myself because I found it a tad agressive when doing like a quick slowdown to cut a corner and traverse to full send again. I now have -1 degree (forward) on the balance for comfort and easier seated riding. Currently trying assist on, acc 100, pedals 88 and break at 55%

So anyways my settings are likely unrelated but my half baked theory was that some combination of a long deceleration in a slope while using that break assist confused the gyro(or the other way around). I dont really know how the wheel "understands" its surroundings, is it far fetched to think G-forces and those unique circumstances are "unsupported" in the software? Haha.

Oh and I was also gonna tell you to reach out to Inmotion, they seem to have support in the app so perhaps they can fetch some diagnostic logs and investigate for real. I noticed it writes a trip log even tho you don´t have the app connected when riding (several days worth of trips appeared in the app after connecting it.

Good luck mate, will be keeping an eye on the thread.

[trailless]

22 hours ago, sWiFt said:

Im not sure, I can pull some science out of my ass tho..

I´ve lowered the break assist myself because I found it a tad agressive when doing like a quick slowdown to cut a corner and traverse to full send again. I now have -1 degree (forward) on the balance for comfort and easier seated riding. Currently trying assist on, acc 100, pedals 88 and break at 55%

So anyways my settings are likely unrelated but my half baked theory was that some combination of a long deceleration in a slope while using that break assist confused the gyro(or the other way around). I dont really know how the wheel "understands" its surroundings, is it far fetched to think G-forces and those unique circumstances are "unsupported" in the software? Haha.

Oh and I was also gonna tell you to reach out to Inmotion, they seem to have support in the app so perhaps they can fetch some diagnostic logs and investigate for real. I noticed it writes a trip log even tho you don´t have the app connected when riding (several days worth of trips appeared in the app after connecting it.

Good luck mate, will be keeping an eye on the thread.

Appreciate it. I can brake relatively hard and can easily overtorque the motor braking, even without break assist on and pedals at 100. So I'm fine with turning the brake assist down, I might even go down to 50%. 

I did another 30 miles yesterday, and no issues... 

[UPONIT]

On 8/14/2023 at 10:19 AM, trailless said:

So I had something weird happen on a ride yesterday. I was riding around in the city, heavy torque and braking, while hitting speeds of 40+mph often. Then I was cruising at 45mph for about 2 miles then came to a gradual stop on a long downhill, battery was at 65%. Right before I fully stopped the wheel tilted back hard. It was at like a -10 degree tiltback and the error symbol was on the screen. I rolled it onto the sidewalk and then it went back to normal. The tiltback and error symbol lasted all of 5 seconds... I checked the app and it didn't store any error messages.

I rode another 10 miles while hitting speeds of 45mph with no issues. Any idea of what that was? 

I hope this doesn't muddy the water, but it sounds similar enough and it's InMotion:

This seems really similar to something that's happened twice on my V12HT. Once up a hill and once down. Long, long slope. Both times I had stopped right after the climb/descent. As soon as I stepped off I got an error and it stopped balancing with an error msg I can't remember. Recycle power and it's fine. It only did it after I was stopped, so I was grateful and kinda forgot about it.

Is this glitch even remotely related?

5 hours ago, trailless said:

Appreciate it. I can brake relatively hard and can easily overtorque the motor braking, even without break assist on and pedals at 100. So I'm fine with turning the brake assist down, I might even go down to 50%. 

I did another 30 miles yesterday, and no issues... 

I wish I still had the rented V13 to check this, but when I was playing with the display screen settings, it seemed like "Split mode" has been replaced with "Brake assist" and "Accel Assist" on the V13? I'm pretty sure I assumed that was what those meant and set them accordingly. Am I mis-remembering?

 

[trailless]

7 hours ago, UPONIT said:

I hope this doesn't muddy the water, but it sounds similar enough and it's InMotion:

This seems really similar to something that's happened twice on my V12HT. Once up a hill and once down. Long, long slope. Both times I had stopped right after the climb/descent. As soon as I stepped off I got an error and it stopped balancing with an error msg I can't remember. Recycle power and it's fine. It only did it after I was stopped, so I was grateful and kinda forgot about it.

Is this glitch even remotely related?

I wish I still had the rented V13 to check this, but when I was playing with the display screen settings, it seemed like "Split mode" has been replaced with "Brake assist" and "Accel Assist" on the V13? I'm pretty sure I assumed that was what those meant and set them accordingly. Am I mis-remembering?

 

It might be similar. Mine never stopped balancing. It just tilted back all the way when I got to about 2-3mph. It was as if the wheel was saying GTFoff. 

Yes they have it as acceleration assist and brake assist now. 

[mrelwood]

On 8/16/2023 at 10:47 PM, UPONIT said:

This seems really similar to something that's happened twice on my V12HT. Once up a hill and once down. Long, long slope.

This is of course just wild guess work with the info we’ve got, but if you’re breaking downhill on a full battery, the wheel will tilt back because of overvoltage created by regenerative braking. And a long climb can launch the overheat tilt-back. They could’ve been your issues. This case though seemed to be neither of those.

 

On 8/16/2023 at 10:47 PM, UPONIT said:

it seemed like "Split mode" has been replaced with "Brake assist" and "Accel Assist" on the V13?

Yes, and the sliders operate in a different manner. The direction is inverse, and the range of adjustment is different.

 

[mhpr262]

On 8/15/2023 at 4:14 PM, 2disbetter said:

humidity is the main issue

Not for electronic components, those dont rely on evaporation for cooling effect. 100°F is 100°F to a battery, no matter whether at 20% or 95% relative humidity.

[2disbetter]

15 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

Not for electronic components, those dont rely on evaporation for cooling effect. 100°F is 100°F to a battery, no matter whether at 20% or 95% relative humidity.

Then why do nearly all electronics specify a humidity level that they can handle? 

I'm pretty sure your laptop in a swamp with the near 100% humidity is going to be hating life. 

I think you are right, in that it shouldn't affect the components, but the increase in water does provide a quick medium to bring heat to the components. I think that is the main issue. In a dry climate, your wheel will stay below the ambient for a good while because of this lack of a medium. This isn't the same in a high humidity area. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by 2disbetter

[UPONIT]

13 hours ago, 2disbetter said:

Then why do nearly all electronics specify a humidity level that they can handle? 

I'm pretty sure your laptop in a swamp with the near 100% humidity is going to be hating life. 

I think you are right, in that it shouldn't affect the components, but the increase in water does provide a quick medium to bring heat to the components. I think that is the main issue. In a dry climate, your wheel will stay below the ambient for a good while because of this lack of a medium. This isn't the same in a high humidity area. 

heat differentials inside electronics can cause condensation, even when nothing is "cold" per se. 

[Chriull]

On 8/20/2023 at 8:37 AM, 2disbetter said:

think you are right, in that it shouldn't affect the components, but the increase in water does provide a quick medium to bring heat to the components.

It's the other way round - the medium brings heat away from the component!

 

On 8/20/2023 at 8:37 AM, 2disbetter said:

In a dry climate, your wheel will stay below the ambient for a good while because of this lack of a medium. This isn't the same in a high humidity area.

Cooling is needed for the mosfets which are way above ambient temperature.

[trailless]

So I'm having an issue with some sort of play in the wheel. I thought it might have been the shocks but I tried tightening them. This is what I've tried so far. 

1. Tighten the top of both the air shock and the dampening shock. 

2. Make sure the black end caps screwed into the bottom of the shocks. 

3. Tighten the grub screw/bolt that adds or decreases resistance in the sliders. Located below the pedal hanger. I tightened them enough to where the sliders had a decent amount of resistance. There's still this knocking sound. 

I reached out the dealer but thought I'd see if anyone has any suggestions here? 

[2disbetter]

Have the motor bolts on your V13 been replaced? 

[trailless]

20 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

Have the motor bolts on your V13 been replaced? 

I specifically asked the dealer, a reputable one, and they confirmed the motor bolts were replaced. 

Rather concerning on the ride home when I could feel the play while carving at 40mph... 

[2disbetter]

17 minutes ago, trailless said:

I specifically asked the dealer, a reputable one, and they confirmed the motor bolts were replaced. 

Rather concerning on the ride home when I could feel the play while carving at 40mph... 

Yes, that is 100% not normal and I would be VERY worried about it. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by 2disbetter

[Forwardnbak]

yea I agree i’d be taking it easy until you hear from the dealer. Mine has no play like that, worrying you could actually feel it at speed. 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

Looks like the end play issue i had on mine. If it's the same issue, the problem is in the motor. The factory didn't shim the axle between the covers properly so the is "end" play. But it goes further than that. If the wheel is "walking" back and forth it could be wearing into the sliders on both sides, in which case they should be replaced as well. Jason over at ewheels sent me a new motor/rim assembly for mine along with new sliders.

pictures/video of mine here:

As long as there is no roughness when you put side pressure on the wheel and turn it back and forth, i don't think it's the bearings.

[trailless]

3 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Looks like the end play issue i had on mine. If it's the same issue, the problem is in the motor. The factory didn't shim the axle between the covers properly so the is "end" play. But it goes further than that. If the wheel is "walking" back and forth it could be wearing into the sliders on both sides, in which case they should be replaced as well. Jason over at ewheels sent me a new motor/rim assembly for mine along with new sliders.

pictures/video of mine here:

As long as there is no roughness when you put side pressure on the wheel and turn it back and forth, i don't think it's the bearings.

That seems to be exactly what it is. I'm rather dissapointed with your end result. I didn't pay $4k to have to replace my rim/motor assembly and sliders... I don't even think I have 300 miles on this wheel...

[2disbetter]

4 hours ago, trailless said:

That seems to be exactly what it is. I'm rather dissapointed with your end result. I didn't pay $4k to have to replace my rim/motor assembly and sliders... I don't even think I have 300 miles on this wheel...

Trust me, I know exactly what you meant. I paid $2900 for a V12HT driver board to fail after only 100km and break my shoulder. 

 

[Forwardnbak]

i was told if there is more than 10mm play it should be warranty 

Just now, Forwardnbak said:

i was told if there is more than 10mm play it should be warranty 

i wouldn’t really want any at this price point though. 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

7 hours ago, trailless said:

I didn't pay $4k to have to replace my rim/motor assembly and sliders

I agree totally. The shop you bought it off of would probably do the repairs themselves. I just didn't want to have to ship the wheel around again. Also this kind of thing should have been caught at the factory. Their engineering is top shelf along with their fit and finish but their QC is dogshit. I don't even see how only a few aren't done correctly. They should all be exactly the same.

[trailless]

4 hours ago, Forwardnbak said:

i was told if there is more than 10mm play it should be warranty 

i wouldn’t really want any at this price point though. 

I agree with you there shouldn't be aby play at this price point, especially with the motor housing/axle/bearing... 

[trailless]

4 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I agree totally. The shop you bought it off of would probably do the repairs themselves. I just didn't want to have to ship the wheel around again. Also this kind of thing should have been caught at the factory. Their engineering is top shelf along with their fit and finish but their QC is dogshit. I don't even see how only a few aren't done correctly. They should all be exactly the same.

I dont want to ship it either, the shop and I are on opposite ends of the country... 

Honestly, I don't know if I even want to keep the wheel... its a bit ridiculous. I was fine with the shortcomings for both safety and build quality. But to have this issue come up, its too much. Should have stuck with begode... 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

38 minutes ago, trailless said:

Should have stuck with begode... 

Easy now!! Let's not get crazy.... You could fix it yourself by just shimming the axle if you knew the axle diameter. I don't unfortunately. But it's really an easy wheel to work on, the motor can be taken out in like 10 minutes. And if that's your only issue, it's not terrible. Not great but you still have arguably the fastest/safest  EUC's to date. Mine needed the sliders because i put 600 miles on it like that. Maybe yours won't.

[trailless]

24 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Easy now!! Let's not get crazy.... You could fix it yourself by just shimming the axle if you knew the axle diameter. I don't unfortunately. But it's really an easy wheel to work on, the motor can be taken out in like 10 minutes. And if that's your only issue, it's not terrible. Not great but you still have arguably the fastest/safest  EUC's to date. Mine needed the sliders because i put 600 miles on it like that. Maybe yours won't.

Lol, not gonna lie. The ex30 I had was an amazing wheel to ride.

I have 270 miles on it so we'll see. Do you know if it's normal to see wear marks on the sliders? Its worn through the paint and I can see bare metal already.