Inmotion V13 Speculation

[novazeus]

here's a little picture book.

notice how flat the knobby is uninflated?

now notice how round the profile is properly inflated?

and here is the michelin with no air.

if i were racing on pavement, i'd definitely pick the michelin. less contact tire patch and smaller diameter is quicker. probably do the suspension delete kit as well.

only problem i'll have with the knobby, which btw, even at 42psi, much easier to ride slowly than the michelin, is the knobbys picking up acorns on my oak tree lined road. inflated properly it doesn't whine like u saw in the youtube videos. and i don't know how u could really ascertain tire psi just riding a couple of miles at each psi. 

higher psi will get u off the line quicker. we don't really have traction issues on pavement, unless it's leaves or some other crap on the road. not like we're burning rubber taking off. so lowering the psi for more traction isn't necessary.

the other thing that cracks me up, is seeing the testers doing a "scientific" range test, telling u their weight and the color of the clothes they wore, but the most important stat in a range test is tire psi.

idk why everybody thinks inmotion, the company that built the wheel, says 40psi, and i'm the only one doing it, thinks inmotion is clueless. the wheel is waaaay more fun with a properly inflated tire. that goes for all wheels. does take more skill however.

 

[novazeus]

btw, somehow with my screwing around with trying to upload the log file, now my speed limit is 56mph, instead of 55mph. i'll have to check my new one tmrw and see what it says. maybe inmotion gave us our 1mph back.

[UPONIT]

7 hours ago, Eyss said:

I did find the acceleration assistant made the problem worse when it tilted back after acceleration. 

That's not how the Acceleration Assistant works. The Acceleration Assistant tilts the pedals forwards as you lean to accelerate to "help" get your weight ahead of the wheel and accelerate faster. The Braking Assistant tilts you backwards as you brake, for the corresponding effect. The degree of tilt is in part determined by what the percentage assistance you set.

It's a very peculiar set of settings, combined with pedal "softness." I started out only ever setting my wheels on "hardest" settings because that's what I read was the "best" way. Now that I've experimented with it, I definitely prefer some degree of soft pedals. More comfortable, less foot fatigue, especially on the V13. The assistants setting is very subjective. Took a while to zero in on what feels good personally, and I still like to play with different combinations in case there are other good combos lurking within the machine. 

[UPONIT]

Don't remember if I already mentioned this or not. With the suspension out, I can freemount at a complete standstill and actually reposition my foot before taking off. The mass is so much lower, it almost stays up by itself. And I can manage sharper and sharper turns. 

Wish there was a kit to lower the pedals to their non-suspension height when the suspension is in. Has anyone done this? Or have any thoughts about the design of an alternate pedal hanger plate or something? I think I'm going to sketch something out to see where the flaws in that idea lie...

[novazeus]

anybody that has “fancy” mode, do u think it adds torque?

[UPONIT]

5 hours ago, novazeus said:

anybody that has “fancy” mode, do u think it adds torque?

Yes. But not a lot at the low end.

I haven't broken out my physics textbooks to do the calculations, but I accept @mrelwood's explanation about the torque / motor power / tire radius / zippiness relationship.

Since you live in the flattest state in the union*, I'm guessing hill climbing ability isn't your main concern? 

 

---------------------

* Yes it is. Look it up. Take that, "Great Plains!"

[soulson]

On 10/2/2023 at 4:23 AM, Forwardnbak said:

this was normal mode last week 

The max power draw that I've seen so far this season is very close to this – just short of 12 500 watts. I don't have any special mode enabled on mine either, and it didn't come with any beeping or tilting back. It did come with a lot of fun though. I wasn't moving particularly fast either; I just juiced it unusually hard coming out of a left turn on a 40 kph street.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

On 10/21/2023 at 11:06 AM, novazeus said:

anybody that has “fancy” mode, do u think it adds torque?

Unfortunately no, it doesn't add any low end torque. Doesn't even help it from a dead stop. After some fairly extensive testing i can honestly say it just gets rid of the 56mph speed limit and at that speed you could easily over lean the wheel if you aren't careful. I have not taken it past 55mph in normal mode and not past 52 in fancy. I think i would just rather leave the limit on and have the partial safety net. The v13 needs a firmware update to fix the "broken" low current limits both from and standstill and moving. It shouldn't have the "give" it has when you really lean into it. I also haven't pushed it past 12,400watts  either though. You are really leaning into it to hit that wattage and are moving about 20+ also.

[novazeus]

2 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Unfortunately no, it doesn't add any low end torque. Doesn't even help it from a dead stop. After some fairly extensive testing i can honestly say it just gets rid of the 56mph speed limit and at that speed you could easily over lean the wheel if you aren't careful. I have not taken it past 55mph in normal mode and not past 52 in fancy. I think i would just rather leave the limit on and have the partial safety net. The v13 needs a firmware update to fix the "broken" low current limits both from and standstill and moving. It shouldn't have the "give" it has when you really lean into it. I also haven't pushed it past 12,400watts  either though. You are really leaning into it to hit that wattage and are moving about 20+ also.

thank you for saving me the trouble. technical pasture riding would like all the low end torque i can get, but if i roll fast enough, and i pretty much can with this new ones suspension and it's big diameter knobby, to roll over most divots. still my favorite wheels by a long shot. i really don't want to ride the king songs at all, and there's nothing wrong with them, i just discovered i like the size and weight of the v13. the algorithms seem to fit me as well. 

[UPONIT]

17 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Unfortunately no, it doesn't add any low end torque. Doesn't even help it from a dead stop. After some fairly extensive testing i can honestly say it just gets rid of the 56mph speed limit and at that speed you could easily over lean the wheel if you aren't careful. I have not taken it past 55mph in normal mode and not past 52 in fancy. I think i would just rather leave the limit on and have the partial safety net. The v13 needs a firmware update to fix the "broken" low current limits both from and standstill and moving. It shouldn't have the "give" it has when you really lean into it. I also haven't pushed it past 12,400watts  either though. You are really leaning into it to hit that wattage and are moving about 20+ also.

By "give" do you mean your pedals have softness, even with the settings correctly done? I'm sure you're way familiar with all the setting options, so I was just wondering what you meant by "give it has when you really lean into it."?

It does seem odd that that big honkin motor can't put out more low-end torque, even though it's driving a 22" wheel. I get used to it and don't notice as much until I ride my V12 or Mten4 and they are like rockets. 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

2 hours ago, UPONIT said:

give it has when you really lean into it.

yes, i have messed with pedal softness,accel and decell assist. It's difficult to describe but the wheel gives up a little bit if you lean forward to hard or try to break to hard. It acts like a trip edge on a snow plow. It's stiff and then gives up a little and feels like you are leaning into a spring. a half a second or so later it "springs" back to its normal pedal position. I guess some people call it a "dip". It doesn't give up completely, just enough so you can feel the immediate dip in the pedals. It's total BS for such a powerful wheel. From a standstill it gives up at something like 4k watts when it's capable of over 12,500.

[novazeus]

i don't mess with the pedals, both or all set to max stiffness.

haha, just rode the new v13, and i swear it has more torque than my first one with the michelin on it. sb the other way around. this second v13 is in a different class. 

[novazeus]

i guess inmotion giveth

and inmotion taketh away

not that i need the extra 1mph, i just find it odd that the value changes randomly. both wheels were at 56, now both at 55mph.

 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

1 minute ago, novazeus said:

both wheels were at 56,

The max has always been 56, you may have hit it changing things on the screen. If you accidentally hit the slider it may change to 55 but if you slide it all of the way to the rt again it will return to 56. I have never had it change using the app but maybe that happens also. You can always change it back though.

[novazeus]

2 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

The max has always been 56, you may have hit it changing things on the screen. If you accidentally hit the slider it may change to 55 but if you slide it all of the way to the rt again it will return to 56. I have never had it change using the app but maybe that happens also. You can always change it back though.

nope. it changed to 55 mph awhile back. only recently did the 56 mph return, and now it's gone again and u can't move the slider on either one to 56 mph. not an issue, just weird.

yeah, u probably don't use the inmotion app and i use it every time. must be the app in the phone making the change. inmotion has new annoying ads up now btw. everytime they screw with the app, they mess up something.

Edited October 27, 2023 by novazeus

[novazeus]

and i used the new v13 charger today for the first time only to find out the fan on the charger didn't work so the charger overheated and cut off. zero quality control out of china. nothing ever changes. how long would it take to verify a charger works. 

customer service in general just sucks. all of them, all products. 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

13 minutes ago, novazeus said:

only to find out the fan on the charger didn't work so the charger overheated and cut off.

Stupid question but did you confirm that it stopped charging? Because my fan only comes on every ounce in a while. It's never always on. It may even go 15 minutes or so with no fan.

[novazeus]

8 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Stupid question but did you confirm that it stopped charging? Because my fan only comes on every ounce in a while. It's never always on. It may even go 15 minutes or so with no fan.

yeah, it stopped charging at 92% because u could fry an egg on the charger. probably because the fan doesn't work! it caused a fault in the wheel as well. 

hooked up the old charger and it works just fine. they put fans in chargers for a reason. i've already contacted inmotion for a new charger. it works just fine, until it overheats. like i say, if it didn't need a fan, china wouldn't waste money on it. but they should make sure it works before shipping out. duh!

specifically, the blue light and green light came on, which i thought was weird because it hadn't been on the charger long enough, and did u miss the part about this is the first time i used the new charger? i've been using the one that came with my first wheel. and so i checked the wheel display, it had an error, and was only at  92%. got my phone and the cells were badly balanced which got cured by hooking up the old charger that works. 

it's great ur so in love with inmotion, but trust me, they screw up like every company on the planet. not as bad as gotway/begode. i wouldn't have bought two, and maybe a third one soon, if it wasn't the best wheel for my use. this new v13 compared to my version one is quite different, but i like both of them. my biggest problem now is, do i dump the s18. i still like the s22, but it's as small of a wheel i ever want to ride, and i'm afraid i'll overlean the s18 with it's 31 mph speed limit. 

i think i have those tensioner things somewhat figured out, but like the one guy said, i think those screws loosen by themselves. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by novazeus

[Punxatawneyjoe]

15 minutes ago, novazeus said:

it's great ur so in love with inmotion

yeah sorry, i was just trying to be helpful since it was just us 2 talking on this thread the page or so. I will know better next time.

[novazeus]

49 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

yeah sorry, i was just trying to be helpful since it was just us 2 talking on this thread the page or so. I will know better next time.

i love inmotion as well, obviously. not even thinking about any other wheel. the v13 fits me perfectly. but they still screw up. it makes me want to cry, being a manufacturer of sorts myself. the 5 seconds it takes to check a product before packing as opposed to bad customer's feelings, the hassle of warranty. etc etc. 

with all the apts around me, and me adding thousands, having this super regional shopping center on the north part of the ranch makes my remaining 325 acres a great location for pev's. i'm hoping to build safe multiuse paths throughout. 

i mean, is this a destination u would ride ur wheel to? 

Edited October 27, 2023 by novazeus

[novazeus]

i didn't plan this, it just happened. i just rode both my v13's back to back after charging both to 100% yesterday. the old one has the michelin street pilot 2 at probably 45psi, the new one has the stock knobby at probably 40 psi, or greater on both. kinda interesting the street tire gets better mileage. same road same everything. everything identical, except the tire. 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

My input is that 45 psi makes you feel every bump in the road, it's not "harder" it's not "safer" it's definitely not "better" than 35. My tire was low today so for the hell of it i tried the 45 psi.  I tried it and it's foolish. I also tried today no power assist and full pedal hardness and it just makes the wheel feel more springy when you lay into it, I'm not exactly sure if i like it or not yet but definitely feels like you could overpower it easier. If you lay into it it feels like a spring, it tilts forward and springs back as it accelerates.  Feels weird but not exactly sure if i like it or not, i will definitely do more testing. All of this was in "fancy" mode just to sure i wasn't missing anything.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Punxatawneyjoe

[novazeus]

8 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

My input is that 45 psi makes you feel every bump in the road, it's not "harder" it's not "safer" it's definitely not "better" than 35. My tire was low today so for the hell of it i tried the 45 psi.  I tried it and it's foolish. I also tried today no power assist and full pedal hardness and it just makes the wheel feel more springy when you lay into it, I'm not exactly sure if i like it or not yet but definitely feels like you could overpower it easier. If you lay into it it feels like a spring, it tilts forward and springs back as it accelerates.  Feels weird but not exactly sure if i like it or not, i will definitely do more testing. All of this was in "fancy" mode just to sure i wasn't missing anything.

how about for grins, u run ur 35psi 10 miles on flat pavement and lets see how much energy u burn.

let’s see, max pressure is 45psi for 396 pounds total weight on the tire.

so ur running 10psi less than max, or approx 22% less. so ur suited up weight sb 396-22% less air than max or 308-120(running weight of v-13)or 188 total rider weight.

so if the rider weighs 188 or less suited up, he’s not gonna overflex the sidewalls or overload the tire per manufacturers rating.

it’s stamped clearly on the sidewall. ignoring it is ur choice, but doesn’t make u correct.

i’d go with the people that make and understand tires.

and please logically understand, if ur wheel motor isn’t working as hard, and it’s not with the manufacturers recommended tire pressure, then u are less likely to overtax ur motor and batteries resulting in a faceplant.

got nothing to do with ur riding ease or comfort, it’s about making the wheel work less hard as demonstrated by my two screen shots above. 92% vs 90%. explain that.

same thing happens with cars, trucks etc when the tires aren’t properly inflated they waste fuel. no wonder we have an energy problem. bring back jimmy carter to teach humans how to inflate tires.

Edited October 28, 2023 by novazeus

[Punxatawneyjoe]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

t’s stamped clearly on the sidewall. ignoring it is ur choice

What is stamped on the sidewall is the max pressure that the tire can safely handle, it is not the recommended pressure. In addition the "recommended" pressure of 40 psi from the manual is for the factory tire that is a tubed tire. This means that the tire itself has a softer sidewall than say a tubeless tire. The tubeless tire i have mounted on it has a tube inside of it giving it far more rigidity than if it were running tubeless. So to summarize, the tire i am using has a much stiffer sidewall and tread area than the stock tire. As a result in order to maintain the same deformation as the original tire, it requires much less air. Therefore the "recommended" tire pressure is incorrect. In addition, it is just there as a recommendation not a inflate to or die pressure. Also as far as efficiency, i could care less if it uses 2,5 even 10% more energy. My riding brings me no where near the limits for a "face plant". And i am not looking to set any records for efficiency. I would think that after you started a thread about this very topic and everyone that responded to you disagreed with your theory, you would take a step back and reconsider your position. However you are still adamant about proving you are right and i can respect your tenacity. We will just have to agree to disagree....

[novazeus]

not a theory, properly inflated tires use less energy than deflated tires. a beach bicycle is harder to pedal than a ten speed. that's fact.

here's a side by side comparison the knobby at 42psi cold, 2 over max, the michelin street pilot 2 at 47psi, 2 over max(thankfully the slime is holding finally).

just rode another ten miles on each one today. big fun at these pressures.

today's ride. both ended up at 80% but i rode faster on the street tire. speed kills energy as well. i'd love to see some other range reports from v13 owners. it looks like i get one mile per one percent of battery. this is on flat pavement and stopping every .3km.

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by novazeus