Inmotion V13 Speculation

[UniVehje]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Or just V13. Less to typing. 🙂  Additionally, Inmotion V11 and V12 are already well established model names in their lineup.

That's what we're going to call it anyway. Has anybody used Eagle when talking about S22?

[Robse]

How about "Inmotion V"    plain simple, no more numbers because this one is something new and out of usual lineup? (V for Vitesse)

[That Guy]

Yeah... Challenger has bad connotations because of the space shuttle. V13 has bad connotations because of the 13. And wait for more: V14 will have bad connotations because of the 4 in it... 

[yoos]

2 hours ago, UniVehje said:

Has anybody used Eagle when talking about S22?

In Russia the S22 it is often colloquially called "the rooster" (in respectful support of Kingsong's promotion of avian naming)

[sunstrong]

1 minute ago, yoos said:

In Russia the S22 it is often colloquially called "the rooster" (in respectful support of Kingsong's promotion of avian naming)

It does look more like a rooster than an eagle

[Freeforester]

6 hours ago, wstuart said:

What if we named it the "V13" ?....

It worked for the v8, v10, v11 and v12.....

The V’s 1 & 2 didn’t do too well in London, istr….

[yoos]

1 hour ago, Robse said:

How about "Inmotion V"    plain simple, no more numbers because this one is something new and out of usual lineup? (V for Vitesse)

Nah, my first connotation with V is Vergeltungswaffe I am afraid . My distaste for military naming has grown strong. Why keep calling these wonderful contraptions after weapons of destruction (Sherman, Abrams) or army rankings (Commander)? I like the technical names (S18, V12, RS etc) much better. Animals, mythical creatures, geographic landmarks etc are also great. But no conquerors, destroyers, comandantes, bombers, Kalashnikovs etc please. Let's name the V13 Falcon or something, fittingly it's faster than an Eagle and F is already a common letter in the inmotion naming scheme. Inmotion F1 sounds good.

[That Guy]

16 minutes ago, yoos said:

Nah, my first connotation with V is Vergeltungswaffe I am afraid . My distaste for military naming has grown strong. Why keep calling these wonderful contraptions after weapons of destruction (Sherman, Abrams) or army rankings (Commander)? I like the technical names (S18, V12, RS etc) much better. Animals, mythical creatures, geographic landmarks etc are also great. But no conquerors, destroyers, comandantes, bombers, Kalashnikovs etc please. Let's name the V13 Falcon or something, fittingly it's faster than an Eagle and F is already a common letter in the inmotion naming scheme. Inmotion F1 sounds good.

Not "InMotion Z"? ;-)

[Robse]

36 minutes ago, yoos said:

. Inmotion F1 sounds good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_F1

[Unventor]

8 hours ago, Dosingpsychedelics said:

I’m one of them after coming from riding sportbikes for many many years I want something faster than the 45 mph that I currently hit on my wheel ..70-75mph will be perfect !!!

🤘🥳🤘

Now people start discussing names? 

And the quoted message is not considered a problem? 

I mean there is no protection for a EUC crash and clearly this is like always, not fully considering what is going of between a self balancing 1 wheel transport vs a sportbikes in balance between 2 wheels that doesn't require power to balance. 

As speeds increase this will end really badly the new generation didn't learn at 20-30kmh limited so we leaned what loss of balance at a "safe" speed or what you could run off. But at 75mph...

I can only say good luck. 

So where is do we want these thing to end or progress into?

Thay is why I think a upgraded and improved V11 would be a better long term investment. 

But time will tell if my predicted is wrong. Also time will tell what else the Challanger have installed for the community. 

But here is an idea. Someone bringing it out to a freeway or riding full speed in a city road will make the news soon. So will the police crack down on EUC riders going too fast. 

Just like rental escooters had the Police monotoring them for some time at least. 

[Grimm10]

How about Inmotion Vaporware? 😄 It probably won't be available until August 2023.

I just hope for a clean launch of said product with only minor glitches.  I initially committed to buying the V12 last fall, but due to issues with that wheel, I cancelled it and signed on for the S20, but again issues with that wheel caused me to switch my order to the Master and hopefully 🤞 I'll finally get a much needed upgrade from my V10F next month. 🍾🎉

 

 

[That Guy]

18 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Now people start discussing names? 

And the quoted message is not considered a problem? 

I mean there is no protection for a EUC crash and clearly this is like always, not fully considering what is going of between a self balancing 1 wheel transport vs a sportbikes in balance between 2 wheels that doesn't require power to balance. 

As speeds increase this will end really badly the new generation didn't learn at 20-30kmh limited so we leaned what loss of balance at a "safe" speed or what you could run off. But at 75mph...

I can only say good luck. 

So where is do we want these thing to end or progress into?

Thay is why I think a upgraded and improved V11 would be a better long term investment. 

But time will tell if my predicted is wrong. Also time will tell what else the Challanger have installed for the community. 

But here is an idea. Someone bringing it out to a freeway or riding full speed in a city road will make the news soon. So will the police crack down on EUC riders going too fast. 

Just like rental escooters had the Police monotoring them for some time at least. 

Dude, we are having fun here! You sure you want to start the philosophical discussion of risks and responsibilities?... :-)

[Buddywoof]

That 90mph velocity is going to be the death of someone.

[techyiam]

Food for thought.

For BLDC motors used in euc's, if the motor is allowed to run without phase currents being limited, either by controller or battery, then the peak motor power output would occur at roughly 50% of its free-spin speed. When motor power is below the load, in power terms, the euc decelerates.

50% of 140 km/h  is 70 km/h.  The load depends on the total weight of the euc and rider, the grade of the road, head winds, aerodynamic drag, and rolling resistance, and etc. And of course the reserve to balance the rider.

[Freeforester]

7 hours ago, That Guy said:

Dude, we are having fun here! You sure you want to start the philosophical discussion of risks and responsibilities?... :-)

Unventor has a point, at least in the eyes of many Europeans, in that irresponsible use of a EUC capable of lethal speed may well presage their banning, and certainly at least far greater scrutiny; we can all, surely understand the nature of those reckless/carefree young and young-minded males and their fascination with pushing speed,  the envelope of ‘the possible’, etc, so when (not if) such a machine arrives, you can bet your last rouble that there is going to be someone wealthy enough yet dim enough to risk not only their life and limbs in their pursuit of the land speed record but also the future of  EUC riding for the rest of the community. What would Jacinda do? She seems to be the one make the sweeping decisions, best ask her?

It may of course be just a plain old ‘cultural’ differences ‘twixt the Old and New Worlds, where in the latter exercising one’s right to be free to pursue the Darwin Award, or to eg bear arms without scrutiny of the suitability or otherwise of the individual, etc, that others in the Old World may not quite ‘get’, but there we are, we can celebrate these cultural differences.  On the other hand, your country is far larger and less crowded (per capita) than much of Europe, so there is still room for freedom of such expression. Philosophy - a Greek invention, yet still garnering interest from beyond their shores. ‘Tragedy of the commons’ is another old world conundrum which comes mind.

Given the nature of such types of riders, their assured biological propensity to bleed nonetheless, but bearing in mind the aforementioned fun we are currently engaging in, perhaps we can consider applying a name to the machine to be one appropriate for its eventual user type - how about the Haemorrhoid, or Tampon - as we can surmise from what we know that there sure will be blood?..  then again, them/us Europeans aren’t exactly playing a great hand too well in respect of our handling of our own little domestic troubles in the meantime, so who knows, maybe we should forget the philosophy and just watch from the aisles with chagrin interest, and learn from the aftermath? 😳🫣 Perhaps this is too philosophical for consideration, of course🤔

 

Absolutely no offence intended to riders in both hemispheres, just having fun!

[techyiam]

32 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

Unventor has a point, at least in the eyes of many Europeans, in that irresponsible use of a EUC capable of lethal speed may well presage their banning, and certainly at least far greater scrutiny; we can all, surely understand the nature of those reckless/carefree young and young-minded males

Basically, what you alluding to is that some riders, especially if they live in Europe, may also want a new flagship wheel that is more suited to their use cases, and political climate.

I think Inmotion will find out soon enough. If V13 sales tank in Europe, Inmotion would have to come up with another flagship wheel for Europe. 

In the mean time, there is the S22. You just have to wait for Kingsong to sort out the motor and slider issues. 🙂

If you want to see what happens to riders with super fast machines, look no further than the motorcycle world.

At least from what I seen, most of the riders that do buy the Ninja H2's, superbikes, or Ninja ZX-14R's, or Suzuki Hayabusa's are more skilled and calculating than you think. 

The H2 can go 200 mph, and as always, someone would like to prove it on YouTube. So there are always those. Aside from group rides, the vast majority would ride within their abilities. 

The manufacturers are still selling those bikes, decaded after decades.

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by techyiam

[Robse]

1 hour ago, Freeforester said:

Unventor has a point, at least in the eyes of many Europeans,

Many contries in europe has governments which has come to the view, that the only right way to solve a problem is by issuing a ban.  This is easy; you do not have to think about anything, draw up a plan or investigate whether you can do something in a different way so that people could have fun in a safe way, nono... just banning.  In my country its even banned to carry i pocket knife with the smallest blade if you don't have a recognizable purpose for carrying. In that way people have been accused under the strictest weapons clause just because they had forgotten the knife in their backpack or pocket ( after a nature hike ), and now entering a mall...  But we are now all the "happy happy people" because knifes are illegal, and therefore the criminals among us cant use them anymore.  It must be a riddle to the government how knife stabbing with serious injuries and eventually death still occurs  20 - 30 times a year... how come that be ? wonder wonder...  Its just a matter of time and the same will happen for the EUC users (somehow already happened in UK and Germany.) It only takes one incident, for example with a fool rider who tries to see if i can keep up with the traffic on a motorway (on his new speed monster Vxxx ) paired with a Karen and a politican who is on the search for votes, and bang; then the ban trains is running.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Robse

[yoos]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

If you want to see what happens to riders with super fast machines, look no further than the motorcycle world.

I think what Unventor might be more afraid of (and I agree with him here) is that while EUCs are still in the their young age (with regards to public opinion and regulation) it is important what stories and events hit the headlines. Motorcycles, like bicycles, are entrenched in culture for 100 years already. A tragic crash of a motorcycle (even if it's at 200mph in a city and kills 5 people) will not lead to a ban (or any serious limitation) on motorcycles. EUCs on the other hand enjoy no such privilege. When I see someone going 180kmh on a 90kmh highway I might be irritated but I do not fear this will affect car regulations (at most some fines will be adjusted and more speed cameras erected).

However, we go off-topic a bit  and this has already been discussed plenty in the alleycat threads  

I think the V13 might be a marvel (if they manage to maintain that care for headroom and safety margins throughout the whole machine and source their components sparing no expense). It's definitely not for me, but I'd like to see what people will achieve with it on the track and I hope it won't bring bad publicity and overly oppressive regulatory consequences anywhere.

[yoos]

10 hours ago, Robse said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_F1

Alas, most letters of both the latin and greek alphabeth have been tarnished.

10 hours ago, That Guy said:

Not "InMotion Z"? ;-)

Looks like I can't even ride the Ninebot Z10 now . Still, letters are letters, not fully owned by military, propaganda, or ideology. I guess you can't even trademark a letter. "conqueror" and "sherman" on the other hand are pretty straight-forward in their references. 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, yoos said:

I think what Unventor might be more afraid of (and I agree with him here) is that while EUCs are still in the their young age (with regards to public opinion and regulation) it is important what stories and events hit the headlines. Motorcycles, like bicycles, are entrenched in culture for 100 years already. A tragic crash of a motorcycle (even if it's at 200mph in a city and kills 5 people) will not lead to a ban (or any serious limitation) on motorcycles. EUCs on the other hand enjoy no such privilege.

You the rider decides which wheel you buy and how fast you ride, as well as how much negative attention you draw.

Are you saying that the Sherman Max, Abrams, Commander, Monster Pro, EX.N, and the Master are fine? Why focus only on the V13. A fast enough wheel is all it takes to generate a bad headline.

Or are you implying that you are afraid Europeans would indeed buy the V13, go as fast they can, and generate bad headlines. The wheels I mentioned above are not slow. Have they generated bad headlines yet?

As you know, Denis Hagov does not sell Leaper Kim wheels anymore. And Afeez Kay of E-rides does not sell the EX20S. Hence, European dealers and distributors decide what wheels are primarily sold in Europe. However, there are more than a handful of Europeans that ride euc's. Should a few riders be a able dictate what all other European riders can ride.

If you are worried about bad headlines, and those headlines that can lead to banning of eucs, you can definitely vote with your wallet for starters. But also as a group you can speak to your dealers and distributors. 

 

 

[The Brahan Seer]

The above concerns are all valid points. I live in a town of 9000 people. So everyone knows everyone else pretty much (or their friends do). If I act up in anyway then I can kiss goodbye to riding around my EUC. ATM 95% of people think its great, 4% don't care and around 1% disapprove. The police aren't bothered unless I cause issues. I ride respectfully because I want to, but also the other option means its all over. I am limited to what I can do and how fast in town ( But aren't we all anyway just because you might be anonymous in a big city as an EUC rider you are not). The V13 or Master would still be an option as you can ride these at town speeds but with the advantage of being able to ride along very quiet country roads giving it a real blast. So the V13 might not be the best wheel for urban riding just like a Ferrari isn't but on the open road it could still as safe as a motorcycle and fun. I understand the concerns that some minority riders will behave irresponsibly and cause our EUC's to be banned and the likelihood of this happening increases the faster the wheels get. I do agree, and this is the trade off we are getting. Will it be worth it? probably not.

[yoos]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Are you saying that the Sherman Max, Abrams, Commander, Monster Pro, EX.N, and the Master are fine? Why focus only on the V13. A fast enough wheel is all it takes to generate a bad headline.

I am just talking about the overall trends. For all we know the V13 might actually end up much safer than the Master [when riding at the same speed] due to more headroom and better build quality (I still believe they are perfectly capable). For record I welcome the V13, even if it is not for me and it delays the development of the perfect dream wheel that would be for me. I was merely caught up [again] in the well-known narrative: faster wheels -> people ride faster-> looks more dangerous; chances of accident increase; accident severity increases->accident and overall scariness might generate bad media->severe regulation likely. To establish connection between Europe, US and the ROW add the following relation: regulations in one part of the world often affect regulations elsewhere, especially places that were undecided yet; product that don't yet have a very large market and powerful customer/distributer base are more helpless in the face of regulations and are more likely to be treated harshly if not outright banned (in places where they legally grey at the moment). Furthermore, the more EUCs are legal around the world the better for us all.

Anyway, I want to get back on track to the V13. I am excited for the next reveals. By the way, are there any estimates for motor weight? It's a 22" which basically means a slightly larger rim (however, if you aren't cheap you can shave off quite some weight on that). The guts are more important. 8AWG wires are roughly twice the weight of 11AWG wires. My question is what's the length of the wires? Does it really contribute much to the weight? Or is most of the extra weight needed for mechanical robustness?

[Funky]

On 7/18/2022 at 6:52 PM, Paul g said:

Adam is wright. In my view you can’t propose a 140kmph wheel when you can’t prove you can make a 70kmph one that you can ride safely. Who will dare to test that heavy wheel and at those speeds, since it will be much more dangerous from all points of view? 

Yeah i'm also 100% agree what Wrong Way! said.. These "new" wheels are simply in one word "shit". (And not the good kind..)

Companies need to start thinking about light, fast rechargeable wheels. Or with fast ex-changeable batteries. Wheels like 16s/16x/18xl/v10/v11/v12, but simply "better". Maybe add suspension. Better build quality. Added all the bells and whistles. Add real "smart bms". Really waterproofed wheel..

But no we are getting bigger and bigger wheels.  There is no way it will be 34kg. It will be 45-50kg. (34kg wheel with what? 1550 WH battery? Enjoy ~25 mile range.) Motor alone being 22" will weight maybe ~15-18kg. (More power - more copper - more weight.)

Edited July 20, 2022 by Funky

[Forwardnbak]

i think the companies should stop trying to outdo each other’s hype announcements and instead make wheels that actually arrive on a due date with working firmware and hardware. Then let hype happen. 

Also stop trying to call them western names challenger, raptor, eagle and xman. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Forwardnbak

[techyiam]

37 minutes ago, yoos said:

I was merely caught up [again] in the well-known narrative: faster wheels -> people ride faster-> looks more dangerous; chances of accident increase; accident severity increases->accident and overall scariness might generate bad media->severe regulation likely.

Riding at a higher speed doesn't necessarily equate to reckless riding. However, riding at a higher speed safely may require more skill, and more cautious risk mitigation tactics and strategies. 

 

37 minutes ago, yoos said:

To establish connection between Europe, US and the ROW add the following relation: regulations in one part of the world often affect regulations elsewhere, especially places that were undecided yet; product that don't yet have a very large market and powerful customer/distributer base are more helpless in the face of regulations and are more likely to be treated harshly if not outright banned (in places where they legally grey at the moment).

The only thing that came anything close to be on the radar of a federal agency in the US is a Kingsong euc battery pack. Due to exactly one incident. That I thought was odd. I think they took interest only because the damage was severe, and they were linking the euc incident to the hoover board fires, which they have already created tests for.

I think the euc market is still too small, and they are not anywhere near to making headlines. There are not enough injuries and fatalities to justify interest of the feds yet, IMO.

 

37 minutes ago, yoos said:

By the way, are there any estimates for motor weight? It's a 22" which basically means a slightly larger rim (however, if you aren't cheap you can shave off quite some weight on that). The guts are more important. 8AWG wires are roughly twice the weight of 11AWG wires. My question is what's the length of the wires? Does it really contribute much to the weight? Or is most of the extra weight needed for mechanical robustness?

I don't have any details. But wouldn't most of the weight be coming from the Neodymium magnets, and the windings. This is a very powerful BLDC motor. The wheel and hub can be made from aluminium alloy. 

However, I noticed motorcycle wheels are heavier than euc wheels, (excluding motor components). So the wheel itself would be beefed up some.

It would be interesting to compare the V13 wheel to that of the Abrams.