INMOTION V12

[Richardo]

On one hand, it's irritating that there are only some boards and the delivery is going slowly. 

On the other hand, maybe that is good because if there is a defect in these boards it's not going to hit everyone at once.

[Cress]

6 minutes ago, Richardo said:

On one hand, it's irritating that there are only some boards and the delivery is going slowly. 

On the other hand, maybe that is good because if there is a defect in these boards it's not going to hit everyone at once.

But . . . . On the OTHER hand good Beta testing demands putting a lot of units in-service.  They should hurry-up. 

[Paul g]

Hi, @Cecily Inmotion! Thank you for informing us about the updated replacement boards for V12 HS. I hope us, the ones who bought directly from a Chinese seller, will also receive them at a similar time. May I ask you when do you think we can have from you a V12 battery pack with Molicel batteries and a LiTech BMS just like the ones eWheels sells in USA? They would offer increased safety when in use (also by offering more current when needed) and a lot more performance. 

Ginger On Wheels: Battery Upgrades INCOMING! - eWheels LiTech Molicel Begode/Gotway 

 

[Paul g]

Thank you KNZ, Cress and Wolverine for support. If we would have this option we would have a much more performant and safe V12 ??? Frankly I’m a little surprised so few people are interested in seeing a Molicel LiTech battery in the V12. Why ☹️ 

[Paul g]

I’m thinking of buying Molicel batteries and replacing the standard ones offered by InMotion in the pack if InMotion doesn’t seem to do that. In my view a quality wheel must come with quality battery. Or at least offer the option for it. I just need to order some replacement V12 packs and start 

 

[conecones]

2 hours ago, Paul g said:

I’m thinking of buying Molicel batteries and replacing the standard ones offered by InMotion in the pack if InMotion doesn’t seem to do that. In my view a quality wheel must come with quality battery. Or at least offer the option for it. I just need to order some replacement V12 packs and start 

 

I sure hope you aren't suggesting doing this battery work using a DIY spot welder... Rebuilding V12 packs at this time seems like a really bad idea. We are just receiving new boards and you want to throw another unknown into this mix? If we get through validating these new boards (via actual rider testing) by the end of the year, this would be a win on its own.

 

On 5/13/2022 at 2:52 PM, Paul g said:

Hi, @Cecily Inmotion! Thank you for informing us about the updated replacement boards for V12 HS. I hope us, the ones who bought directly from a Chinese seller, will also receive them at a similar time. May I ask you when do you think we can have from you a V12 battery pack with Molicel batteries and a LiTech BMS just like the ones eWheels sells in USA? They would offer increased safety when in use (also by offering more current when needed) and a lot more performance. 

Ginger On Wheels: Battery Upgrades INCOMING! - eWheels LiTech Molicel Begode/Gotway 

 

I have to call BS on a couple of points made on this video.

2:31 - "no name brand cells on the inside". Where's the proof of this? Has anyone documented a single case where the battery inside the pack is NOT what was labelled? 

6:35 - Then he says 900WH begode packs are LG M50LT. So what is it, are they no name brand or not? Then makes a point about it being "made in China" as the main reason its worse than Taiwan & Korea made batteries, which I disagree with when there is no evidence presented.

10:13 - Claims motherboard is not the bottleneck. Again, is there evidence for this? When you reach the power limits (grunts/magnet skipping), is this not due to board cutting power to mosfets? It's also not clear if this reviewer ever tried a stock RS HT. You can overpower it with the right pads or a steep enough hill, and doing body leans on flat road is not the right technique. The technique used by U-Stride when he cut out the S-20 is what you need to do on flat ground - fast jerky movements front/back, you can absolutely make the RS HT grunt/beep/cut out without needing to weigh 200lb+

[jimjam.nyc]

Word on the street is even some of the litech bms wheels are having battery issues. Maybe not fire related but some qc issues.

I haven't heard of many inmotion battery issues so not sure I would fix what isn't broken. 

I'm sure there will always be some 1 off issues from all manufacturers. Parts can be damaged or faulty, etc. It will happen no matter what cells or BMS you have.

I will be thrilled just to get my fixed mosfets for v12. I honestly don't even worry about the batteries on my inmotion wheels.

[Paul g]

@jimjam.nyc Molicel batteries would improve the performance of the V 12 like braking and acceleration, as well as improved recharging of the pack. 

If you have more info about LiTech would be interesting to find out more. 

[jimjam.nyc]

36 minutes ago, Paul g said:

@jimjam.nyc Molicel batteries would improve the performance of the V 12 like braking and acceleration, as well as improved recharging of the pack. 

If you have more info about LiTech would be interesting to find out more. 

There was some mention that some of the Sherman's with them were under performing. I am not 100% sure exactly what some of the issues were, but I thought they were starting to throttle and beep at 40%. At pretty low speeds.

To be fair I have no idea how much of it is exaderated, or how many were having the issues.

People seem to focus in on the small amount of issues, sometimes it's hard to tell how much is really a problem 

 

[Paradox]

Just now, jimjam.nyc said:

There was some mention that some of the Sherman's with them were under performing. I am not 100% sure exactly what some of the issues were, but I thought they were starting to throttle and beep at 40%. At pretty low speeds.

This was posted this morning by @FrenchUsa.

 

[Paul g]

3 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

There was some mention that some of the Sherman's with them were under performing. I am not 100% sure exactly what some of the issues were, but I thought they were starting to throttle and beep at 40%. At pretty low speeds.

To be fair I have no idea how much of it is exaderated, or how many were having the issues.

People seem to focus in on the small amount of issues, sometimes it's hard to tell how much is really a problem 

 

Do you know if they were with Molicel batteries?

[jimjam.nyc]

39 minutes ago, Paul g said:

Do you know if they were with Molicel batteries?

I am not sure what the Sherman's were shipping with, or even if there is an option to choose cells for the Shermax 

 

 

[Cress]

EUCs have always had a 'special use' status among battery-motor devices because EUCs ignore  battery manufacturers' rules; EUCs need battery performance that Li-ion doesn't guarantee and doesn't specify.   Until Li-ion technology is replaced EUC fires and failures have to be solved by electrical engineering that recognizes what battery technology can and cannot provide.  

@Adam U  posted a YouTube video about a month ago that makes an understandable explanation of why we need to use the best batteries.  @Jason McNeil , eWheels, started promoting battery options a number of months ago.  @Paul ghas a post, above, that shows how easy it is to assemble Li-ion battery packs and I'm looking for user-reports that document benefits of hi-output cells including higher charging-rates and longer service-life.  The EUC community needs help from manufacturers, including after-market manufacturers, because the benefit of continuous manufacturer investment is the long-term solution.

I hope EUC technology will move forward a few steps.  Batteries have always been a limitation but batteries are improving.   We need to remind EUC Manufacturers that we're looking at newer, better hardware not the old stuff that was part of failures.  We could be doing long-distance EUC rides with lighter, less expensive machines charging at +KW rates before solid-state batteries get here. 

Support charging stations 

[pkinpdx]

15 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I am not sure what the Sherman's were shipping with, or even if there is an option to choose cells for the Shermax 

 

 

Ewheels Shermax shipped with LiTech Sam50 packs.  There were no other options.

[Paul g]

@pkinpdx I wonder if the Molicel would’ve made a difference?!

[AtlasP]

It is important to recognize that the current LiTech packs don't directly address or claim to address some of the most fundamental issues with large packs of lithium-ion cells in series--the elephant in the room that we currently choose to live with due to there not yet being an alternative without significant compromises in capacity/weight/etc--they mostly just optimize away some of the low-hanging fruit of potential failure points within the context of current usage/implementations (things like better-sourced cells, adding fuses, some BMS improvements, better cell holders and welds, better testing of both cells and then packs, etc). This optimization is more evolutionary/'best practices' than anything truly revolutionary.

These things are good and should be applauded, and they should help reduce the number of fires due to these low-hanging fruit problems, but on a fundamental level such improvements will not fully eliminate such fires and do not 'fix'/'solve' the longer-term lithium-ion battery issue. There I think we're at the mercy of the broader electronics industry and as-yet-to-materialize advancements in battery tech which up until now have remained perpetually '5 years away'.

[Paul g]

Would cost me £800 to buy the best Molicel batteries for the packs - Molicel P42A Battery.

Mini spot welder ~£50 

If I would want to still use my V12 in the meantime I would need to order two V12 packs £800 x 2 = £1600 almost the same I payed for my entire V12 ? 😱😱🤯

[Cress]

Reference the post by @AtlasP, above.  I'll sleep better after I add this thought.  LiTech packs are current 'best practice' design, they are not revolutionary and I can't imagine why EUC manufacturers haven't already incorporated 'best practice' design in battery packs and all critical areas of an electric unicycle.  The analogy works: this ain't rocket science.

It's good, probably inevitable, that eWheels is pushing Manufacturers, demanding 'best practice' design choices. Consumer demand is high, the demand will be met one way or another.  In a few years and after an unpredictable number of failures we'll have a good story about "Evolution of the EUC."

[Paul g]

4 hours ago, Cress said:

Reference the post by @AtlasP, above.  I'll sleep better after I add this thought.  LiTech packs are current 'best practice' design, they are not revolutionary and I can't imagine why EUC manufacturers haven't already incorporated 'best practice' design in battery packs and all critical areas of an electric unicycle.  The analogy works: this ain't rocket science.

It's good, probably inevitable, that eWheels is pushing Manufacturers, demanding 'best practice' design choices. Consumer demand is high, the demand will be met one way or another.  In a few years and after an unpredictable number of failures we'll have a good story about "Evolution of the EUC."

It is important that the manufacturers of BMSs not only claim their product offer higher safety but also prove it. Also, on the other side, if the BMS works properly, it will stop the entire battery pack because it discovered cell malfunctioning. So not al BMSs that stop working are bad, they just do their intended job. To find out all these things an assessment  of the packs need to be done after the issue, so we hope eWheels ( @Jason McNeil ) will do that and inform us.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Paul g

[Pingouin]

Hello,
Current V12 batteries are manufactured by EVE Energy CO which seems to be a reputable company like Litech is.
Question is @Cecily Inmotion can you confirm that this BMS has passive or active cell balancing ?

Edited May 22, 2022 by Pingouin

[Paul g]

@PingouinIf it had active cell balancing we would probably know it by now from their description, so I don’t think it has.

[Paul g]

And please @Cecily Inmotion @Inmotion Global stop sending the V12HS with that shit tyre. You make yourselves and the V12 owners no service by doing that. I just can’t describe you how much all V12 owners hate that tyre! That tyre is not designed for EUCs, and performs truly horrible on one. I now have to disassemble the entire wheel and change that tyre with a ChaoYang-H-5167(- thanks to the guys on the forum for the tip 💚) ! And I’ll also have a used tyre that I’ll have to sell on ebay because I hate throwing tyres at rubbish, they are a really bad pollution problem for our world. All this effort and money spent without any reason! I would have spent much less money if you would sent me the proper tyre. 😤

Edited May 22, 2022 by Paul g

[HEC]

2 hours ago, Paul g said:

ChaoYang-H-5167(- thanks to the guys on the forum for the tip 💚) !

Apart of eWheels (out of stock currently) do you have any source for those? Can't see them on aliexpress

[Steve Evans]

2 hours ago, Paul g said:

And please @Cecily Inmotion @Inmotion Global stop sending the V12HS with that shit tyre. You make yourselves and the V12 owners no service by doing that. I just can’t describe you how much all V12 owners hate that tyre! That tyre is not designed for EUCs, and performs truly horrible on one. I now have to disassemble the entire wheel and change that tyre with a ChaoYang-H-5167(- thanks to the guys on the forum for the tip 💚) ! And I’ll also have a used tyre that I’ll have to sell on ebay because I hate throwing tyres at rubbish, they are a really bad pollution problem for our world. All this effort and money spent without any reason! I would have spent much less money if you would sent me the proper tyre. 😤

i have just installed my new h666 tire (that was a workout) and am keeping the wheel apart until i get my new driver board. but you are right: i am amazed at how bad that tire is with its train-tracking tendencies. interestingly that new h666 tire is way heavier and stiffer than the original POS

steve

 

[Paradox]

Posted on Telegram.  WrongWay had a cutout going 25kph.

https://instagram.com/stories/mr_wrongway/2843866955139817407?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=