INMOTION V12

[Brendan "nog3" Halliday]

16 hours ago, rolis said:

there is no easy way to get to the back of the screen to look at its board, so I wont do that 😬

Unscrew the two screws beside the display module and you can then lever it out. Be gentle though, since there is a ufl connected external antenna running out of the housing.

[techyiam]

The tire on my T3 was starting to look worn, and I wanted to try out a scooter tire. Without too much trouble, I managed to source a CST 16 x 2.5 tubeless, scooter tire. Unfortunately, the tire was too large for the T3. This wasn't a surprise since there have been many sources online that warned people about that.

So instead, I installed the tire on my V12. As it turnes out, changing a tire on the V12 is more straightforward than on the Begode T3, especially for the first few times.

The overall diameter of the stock tire is around 17.5", and of the new tire, 16.75". This was measured after the tires were mounted and inflated.  The overall width of the stock tire is approximately 3", whereas, the new tire is just a little wider than a 16x2.125 tire. That is, it isn't wide. Hence, the new tire is a somewhat smaller tire, but the tire is much stiffer. The tread design is more aggressive, and the rubber is stickier. 

I have been riding my V12 at 20 psi on the stock tire, a 16x3 CST C-1488. On the new tire, I set the tire pressure to 15 psi. 

The ride on the stock tire felt more cushy. However, on the new tire, the ride feels more premium. The thick rubber tread seem to take out the edge bump jolt better. Although, bump compliance may be firmer, the bumpiness is less extreme, more uniform. It felt nice on the new tire while commuting.

Steering paradigm seems to have changed. When I first got on the V12 for the first time from a T3, I had difficulties turning it. There seems to be some gyro effect that work against me. Instead of nudging my outside leg into the wheel, I had to rotate my body into the turn and put weight on the inside pedal. Well that is gone. It steers like a T3 now. Riding the V12 is effortless.

Another thing is that the tire is very quiet. There is no howling, like on the stock tire. And the traction in the rain is great. Furthermore, stability seems to be the same, and no wobbles. My V12 was already dialed in to be wobble free. So, without any type of compensatory action, the wheel doesn't wobble. It doesn't matter if your feet are staggered or not, or your legs are squeezing the wheel or not, and etc.

Even though the new tire is a scooter tire, and not a bicycle tire like the stock tire, the new tire doesn't make the wheel feel any more planted.

Now that I got a sense of how a scooter tire feels, I need to get one in the proper size. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find scooter tires in the 16x3 equivalent sizes.

Edited June 6, 2022 by techyiam

[Steve Evans]

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

The tire on my T3 was starting to look worn, and I wanted to try out a scooter tire. Without too much trouble, I managed to source a CST 16 x 2.5 tubeless, scooter tire. Unfortunately, the tire was too large for the T3. This wasn't a surprise since there have been many sources online that warned people about that.

So instead, I installed the tire on my V12. As it turnes out, changing a tire on the V12 is more straightforward than on the Begode T3, especially for the first few times.

The overall diameter of the stock tire is around 17.5", and of the new tire, 16.75". This was measured after the tires were mounted and inflated.  The overall width of the stock tire is approximately 3", whereas, the new tire is just a little wider than a 16x2.125 tire. That is, it isn't wide. Hence, the new tire is a somewhat smaller tire, but the tire is much stiffer. The tread design is more aggressive, and the rubber is stickier. 

I have been riding my V12 at 20 psi on the stock tire, a 16x3 CST C-1488. On the new tire, I set the tire pressure to 15 psi. 

The ride on the stock tire felt more cushy. However, on the new tire, the ride feels more premium. The thick rubber tread seem to take out the edge bump jolt better. Although, bump compliance may be firmer, the bumpiness is less extreme, more uniform. It feels nice on the new tire while commuting.

Steering paradigm seems to have changed. When I first got on the V12 for the first time from a T3, I had difficulties turning it. There seems to be some gyro effect that work against me. Instead of nudging my outside leg into the wheel, I had to rotate my body into the turn and put weight on the inside pedal. Well that is gone. It steers like a T3 now. Riding the V12 is effortless.

Another thing is that the tire is very quiet. There is no howling, like on the stock tire. And the traction in the rain is great. Furthermore, stability seems to be the same, and no wobbles. My V12 was already dialed in to be wobble free. So, without any type of compensatory action, the wheel doesn't wobble. It doesn't matter if your feet are staggered or not, or your legs are squeezing the wheel or not, and etc.

Even though the new tire is a scooter tire, and not a bicycle tire like the stock tire, the new tire doesn't make the wheel feel any more planted.

Now that I got a sense of how a scooter tire feels, I need to get one in the proper size. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find scooter tires in the 16x3 equivalent sizes.

that's a great writeup. thanks. fyi, 20 psi is a very low pressure to be riding on. be careful not to dent those rims. good luck, steve

 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, evans036 said:

that's a great writeup. thanks. fyi, 20 psi is a very low pressure to be riding on. be careful not to dent those rims. good luck, steve

 

Thanks for the heads up.

It so happens I ride on very specific routes that I know the road surfaces very well. As least I do now. On these routes, I have dented the rim on my Begode T3 with 20 psi on stock tire (16x2.125). However, I have ridden along the same routes on the V12 on stock tires with 15 psi and no dents. The stock tire on the V12 has way more volume of air than the T3's tire. But you are right, in general, depending on weight of the rider, bumpiness of the road, and the traveling speed, 20 psi would be considered on the low side. I think I am OK because I don't ride fast nor am I a heavy rider for the V12.

Edited June 6, 2022 by techyiam

[Paul A]

When compared to a Honda Metropolitan scooter, why does an Inmotion V12 (or any EUC) cost so much?

Would seem there is much more materials/complexity/labour/assembly for the Honda scooter.

 

An Inmotion V12 price:

https://www.ewheels.com/product/new-inmotion-v12-1750wh-battery-2500w-motor-500-deposit/

High Speed V12: $2,299

High Torque V12: $2,499

 

A Honda Metropolitan scooter price:

https://powersports.honda.com/street/scooter/metropolitan

2023 Metropolitan

BASE MSRP: $2,599

Top speed 40mph.

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by Paul A

[Freeforester]

Less is more…

[Funky]

Cheap is the new expensive...

[Nick McCutcheon]

My guess would be that a system for building gas-powered scooters is already established and refined such that the costs to build many of them are very low. EUCs are lower volume, and use a ton of (especially now) expensive batteries and MOSFETs. Add in dealer markup, R&D and manufacturing costs needed to bring the wheel into existence, and you get the price. I also think prices are high for the quality we're receiving, but that seems to ring true when comparing many PEVs to their gas-powered counterparts.

[Paul A]

KingSong previously had geo locking on their wheels. 

Might have been to prevent overseas markets to grey import.

Might be unlikely that the Chinese domestic market are also paying prices close to those for the rest of the world.

Can enough of the Chinese domestic market afford to pay thousands for an EUC?  Perhaps....

 

[sunstrong]

On 6/12/2022 at 12:50 PM, Paul A said:

Might be unlikely that the Chinese domestic market are also paying prices close to those for the rest of the world.

V12 HT/HS on Taobao: 13500 CNY -> 2000 USD (yeah, same price for both, and it's tax included)

[mhpr262]

Honda is going to sell hundreds of thousands of those scooters all over the world. Manufacturing en masse has a huge effect on price.

[Robert RFI]

Good News from Ewheel;

"We're pleased to announce that the long-awaited V12s have finally arrived at our fulfillment warehouse, the plan is to have these orders shipped out on Monday."

Mine is scheduled to arrive @ my home on Tuesday! Can't wait, also from Ewheel;

"Q: What type of tire is fitted to the V12 HS?  

 

A: We had Inmotion install the Chao Yang H666 for our V12s. This tire offers greater 2-3x tread longevity over the standard CST tire & is the generally preferred option in this size. "

 

Happy to hear that after reading all the good reviews in the forum on this tire, it is also an unexpected surprise.

 

[Paul A]

On 6/13/2022 at 2:12 AM, Nick McCutcheon said:

EUCs are lower volume, and use a ton of (especially now) expensive batteries and MOSFETs.

 

Basic comparison of Tesla Model 3 and Inmotion V12 price and battery capacity.

 

2022 Tesla Model 3/MSRP

From $46,990

2022 Tesla Model 3 Battery capacity

50 to 82 kWh

 

$46,990/50 kWh = $939 per kWh

___________________

 

 

Inmotion V12 High Speed price $2,299

Battery capacity 1.750 kWh

 

$2,299/1.750 kWh = $1,313 per kWh

 

 

 

[Steve Evans]

1 hour ago, Robert RFI said:

 

 

A: We had Inmotion install the Chao Yang H666 for our V12s. This tire offers greater 2-3x tread longevity over the standard CST tire & is the generally preferred option in this size. "

 

Happy to hear that after reading all the good reviews in the forum on this tire, it is also an unexpected surprise.

 

damn... you are so lucky. that tire is a lot better than the original CST tire. i had to install the h666 tire myself. it was quite the struggle.

i assume these v12's also have the new & improved driver board.

i think you'll be happy

 

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, Robert RFI said:

We had Inmotion install the Chao Yang H666 for our V12s

Wow! Those were out of print for quite some time. I really like it on my 16X… paid 78USD for a replacement just because I could get one for when the current tire wears out, it's a great tire. Warning though, it tramlines. Scares the poopoo out of you the first few times but ride loose and it's ok. I have about 3500 miles on mine and the tread wear is about 50%.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Tawpie

[Paul A]

Slightly off topic.

Chao Yang H-5102 tyre on 18XL, 18k km before first change.

No other tyre to compare it with.

Seemed to be ok. 

[mhpr262]

2 hours ago, Paul A said:

 

Chao Yang H-5102 tyre on 18XL, 18k km before first change.

 

I have the CY 5102 with the Nike swoosh on my V10F and I dont like it at all. Very squirrelly and unstable and wants to fall into curves by itself. Its very unpleasant having to "hold up" the wheel while doing a turn. I suspect it is the pointy "V" cross section. The factory 1488 was much more pleasant to drive and I'm going to switch back to that one once the 5102 is used up. It does seem to have more than twice the lifespan though so it could be a while...

[Denny Paul]

@techyiam would you mind snapping a pic of the tire you have on your v12? Take one head on of the front of the wheel if you can. I’m curious to see how a 2.5” wide tire would change the profile (curvature of where the tire contacts the road). 

[techyiam]

12 minutes ago, Denny Paul said:

@techyiam would you mind snapping a pic of the tire you have on your v12? Take one head on of the front of the wheel if you can. I’m curious to see how a 2.5” wide tire would change the profile (curvature of where the tire contacts the road). 

Sorry.

That tire has just been replaced with a Cordial 2.75-12 (16x3.0) tube tire. This new tire has an overall diameter of 17.75", and 2.5" wide, when mounted and inflated to 30 psi. This new tire is a scooter tire, but not tubeless. It is stiffer than stock but less stiff than the previous tubeless tire. This new 2.75-12 tire has the tallest sidewall of the three. It also weigh the most.

The previous CST 16x2.5 tubeless tire's profile was more flat than the stock CST-1488, so it can't U-turn as tight as the stock tire. This new 2.75-12 tire's profile is more round than the stock tire. But I haven't ridden it yet.

[Nick McCutcheon]

10 hours ago, Paul A said:

 

 

Basic comparison of Tesla Model 3 and Inmotion V12 price and battery capacity.

 

2022 Tesla Model 3/MSRP

From $46,990

2022 Tesla Model 3 Battery capacity

50 to 82 kWh

 

$46,990/50 kWh = $939 per kWh

___________________

 

 

Inmotion V12 High Speed price $2,299

Battery capacity 1.750 kWh

 

$2,299/1.750 kWh = $1,313 per kWh

 

 

 

Fair point! Tesla's assembly line is pretty well established though. Interesting calculations 👍

[souki]

I have just found out that Nylonove pedals for V10F fit on V12. I didn't see it mentioned anywhere but there is probably just few people like me, that bothered with spiked pedals on V10F and than upgraded to V12.

That saved me nice sum and it soooo much easier to accelerate with larger pedals!

[MexicanBatman]

On 6/18/2022 at 1:49 AM, Paul A said:

 

 

Basic comparison of Tesla Model 3 and Inmotion V12 price and battery capacity.

 

2022 Tesla Model 3/MSRP

From $46,990

2022 Tesla Model 3 Battery capacity

50 to 82 kWh

 

$46,990/50 kWh = $939 per kWh

___________________

 

 

Inmotion V12 High Speed price $2,299

Battery capacity 1.750 kWh

 

$2,299/1.750 kWh = $1,313 per kWh

 

 

 

Standard range model 3 is now 60-62kW/h

 

so even cheaper again

[RArtem]

On 6/19/2022 at 12:05 PM, souki said:

I have just found out that Nylonove pedals for V10F fit on V12. I didn't see it mentioned anywhere but there is probably just few people like me, that bothered with spiked pedals on V10F and than upgraded to V12.

That saved me nice sum and it soooo much easier to accelerate with larger pedals!

I also have custom pedals, that fit all inmotion models from V8F to V12.

[neophile_17]

Hello Fellow Riders,

I have to ask because we haven't had a new post in 3 weeks.  Has everyone with a batch 1 or 2 wheel gotten a new board or sent their wheel back for service?  I suspect that it's not just me and I'm being paranoid but maybe/hopefully everyone else is enjoying their wheel problem free.  I know I'm looking forward to that day, even if it is a year later than expected.

Sam

[spitfire1337]

2 hours ago, neophile_17 said:

Hello Fellow Riders,

I have to ask because we haven't had a new post in 3 weeks.  Has everyone with a batch 1 or 2 wheel gotten a new board or sent their wheel back for service?  I suspect that it's not just me and I'm being paranoid but maybe/hopefully everyone else is enjoying their wheel problem free.  I know I'm looking forward to that day, even if it is a year later than expected.

Sam

I'm still waiting on my replacement. Been 7 months now since mine died.