Fire History

[Chriull]

13 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Wonder if it stopped burning on its own? Rare for so much of the pack to be left...

One reason could be that the batteries never burnt?!

Isn't this molten corner the place the motherboard sits? So maybe just the ?capacitors? exploded? The wheel turned on itself in the trunk and "overloaded" them?

If the placement is different i take everything back and claim the opposite. 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Chriull

[AtlasP]

On 9/24/2021 at 5:26 AM, Rawnei said:

Seems like not a lot of people want to look at this objectively and just want to discredit brands.

The stats summarized at the beginning the present thread seem like a very objective starting point, especially for end consumers trying to do their homework but who are not qualified as (and shouldn't be expected to become) electrical engineers just to figure out what makes/models they should be considering or avoiding. And there the objective stats seem pretty clear:

On 1/18/2021 at 12:31 PM, Asphalt said:

Frequency by Manufacturer [in just *4 years*]

Gotway: 14

Kingsong: 3

InMotion: 1

Segway: 1

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by AtlasP

[Rawnei]

11 hours ago, AtlasP said:

The stats summarized at the beginning the present thread seem like a very objective starting point, especially for end consumers trying to do their homework but who are not qualified as (and shouldn't be expected to become) electrical engineers just to figure out what makes/models they should be considering or avoiding. And there the objective stats seem pretty clear:

I'm not talking about brand statistics and I think you already knew that, I'm talking about understanding why it happens, this is an enthusiast forum after all and I'm sure I'm not the only one who want to understand why these incidents happen outside of the fact that they do. Gotway is a very popular brand and saying they don't know how to build wheels or just blame everything on quality control is a strong oversimplication. I mean for example the motherboard on Veteran Sherman will burn up under too much load such as climbing a very steep hill, that's not random it's a fact that it will happen if the wheel is pushed too hard and that's good knowledge to have if you own one.

[FlyingWigs]

On 9/24/2021 at 4:26 AM, Rawnei said:

It would be interesting to know what is causing these spontaneous fires, logically it has to be a short happening but why? Is it bad soldering, water, battery instability? Has any of these incidents any post-incident investigation and conclusion?

Someone much knowledgable then me on this forum could probably chime in with a couple of probable causes other than "it's Gotway".

I would suspect that an insulation failure between cells is one possibility. A mid-life wheel with moderate use could suddenly burn with minimal apperant cause if the cells randomly touched and thus caused a short circuit. The only way to prevent this would be cell level fusing. Every series connection would need a fuse built in. No easy task, but could prevent dead short thermal runaways between neighbors. 

On 9/24/2021 at 4:26 AM, Rawnei said:

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by FlyingWigs
Double post, sorry for the odd quote, couldn't delete it.

[Rawnei]

5 minutes ago, FlyingWigs said:

I would suspect that an insulation failure between cells is one possibility. A mid-life wheel with moderate use could suddenly burn with minimal apperant cause if the cells randomly touched and thus caused a short circuit. The only way to prevent this would be cell level fusing. Every series connection would need a fuse built in. No easy task, but could prevent dead short thermal runaways between neighbors. 

But is this specific for Gotway battery packs? Does other brands have those kind of fusings (or Ebike batteries for that matter)?

[Chriull]

8 hours ago, Rawnei said:

But is this specific for Gotway battery packs? Does other brands have those kind of fusings (or Ebike batteries for that matter)?

None EUC battery pack by now has internal fusings (fuse wires).

Imho there are many other points, for now more important than such fuse wirings like:

Quality issues with weldings, nickel strips, cell insulation material, additional cell separation material, internal cell quality (stability, separation layer, chemistry,..), pack assembly/packing quality, ....

Quality control from choosen pack manufacturer and wheel manufacturer.

Then there could be design issues like not too much physical protection, especially for heavy high speed wheels leading to easier internal cell damage or defects/loose contacts with the nickel strips or the cell separation/insulation material.

Or placement of "hot parts" near the batteries like mosfets/wires/big "exploding" capacitors.

Humidity protection...

Or riders of the fastest and most powerful wheels tend to burden/stress the wheel more.

etc..

And this collection of incidents could be not representative, although quite likely no reported cases were missed?

At least one case was with 3rd party battery packs (high capacity versions from aliexpress sellers) with horrible battery pack assembly.

So i would not say _specific_ for their packs, but there seem to be bad accumulation of issues.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Chriull
typos

[GothamMike]

LG has been having a truckload of issues. Chevrolet had to do a Battery recall. 

Recall Apple and Samsung both had battery issues.  I wonder who made their battery packs?

I blame the Battery Manufacturer. 

[AtlasP]

Another day, another fire, of course another Gotway: https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/24490-new-gotway-extreme-bull-commander-leaked-datasheet/?do=findComment&comment=389097

[Asphalt]

On 10/9/2021 at 1:02 PM, AtlasP said:

Another day, another fire, of course another Gotway: https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/24490-new-gotway-extreme-bull-commander-leaked-datasheet/?do=findComment&comment=389097

Thanks for the link.
This Gotway Nikola fire was already reported, but the referencing Facebook post had been removed.
Edited the Nikola entry to include the YouTube link and more accurate date.

[Tawpie]

Saw a thing in our local riders group where a stock 1800 Wh Nik caught fire and was tossed into the bathtub where it burned itself out. Made a heck of a mess. But I don't know where or other details.

Of the Kingsong fires, were any of them 16X? I'm wondering if I should get one of gingeronwheels' firebags. Or build a fire resistant outdoor storage thing.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Tawpie

[Richardo]

On 9/25/2021 at 5:16 AM, Rawnei said:

I'm sure I'm not the only one who want to understand why these incidents happen outside of the fact that they do. 

this is from an email eWheels sent about what they were changing on the mten3 to make it meet their standards of battery pack safety/quality

 

[Asphalt]

7 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Of the Kingsong fires, were any of them 16X? I'm wondering if I should get one of gingeronwheels' firebags. Or build a fire resistant outdoor storage thing.

The only Kingsong 16X fire report was in Oct 2019, caused by faulty eWheels fast chargers, which they've since fixed.

A fire bag is an additional safety layer, which can be used along with a fire alarm, extinguisher, fire suppression stickers, fire suppression balls, bags of fire suppression granules, fire blankets, fire cabinets, purchasing from reputable manufacturers, safe charging practices, regular wheel maintenance, and not subjecting your wheel to conditions that may lead to a battery fire.

[div]

56 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

The only Kingsong 16X fire report was in Oct 2019, caused by faulty eWheels fast chargers, which they've since fixed

The latest conclusion I find in that thread is that the charger had been left exposed to water outside on a boat, hence a user error rather that faulty charger.

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, Asphalt said:

The only Kingsong 16X fire report was in Oct 2019

Thx. And phew. I do open and inspect my wheel fairly frequently but that's it, so this is comforting. Still, I might see if I can convince my interior decorator to let me keep the wheels in the (fully functional but unused) fireplace. Tough sell though. Might even be impossible.

[Mango]

11 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Saw a thing in our local riders group where a stock 1800 Wh Nik caught fire and was tossed into the bathtub where it burned itself out. Made a heck of a mess. But I don't know where or other details.

Of the Kingsong fires, were any of them 16X? I'm wondering if I should get one of gingeronwheels' firebags. Or build a fire resistant outdoor storage thing.

A reddit thread alludes to this fire incident. 

 

From what I gather, the rider (based on the east coast USA) rode his Nikola until 15% battery charge. He left it in his apartment turned off and not charging when it started catching fire. The smoke filled several floors of his complex, and all his belongings were unsalvageable due to toxic nature of smoke from lithium battery fires. This happened just a few days ago. He is looking for non-battery forms of personal transportation now. I think he has sworn off all EUCs and especially crap quality Gotways for now.

[Asphalt]

4 hours ago, Mango said:

A reddit thread alludes to this fire incident. 

 

From what I gather, the rider (based on the east coast USA) rode his Nikola until 15% battery charge. He left it in his apartment turned off and not charging when it started catching fire. The smoke filled several floors of his complex, and all his belongings were unsalvageable due to toxic nature of smoke from lithium battery fires. This happened just a few days ago. He is looking for non-battery forms of personal transportation now. I think he has sworn off all EUCs and especially crap quality Gotways for now.

Smoke is an often overlooked problem with all these reactionary safety measures. They may be able to prevent the fire from spreading, but if you're indoors, toxic smoke is going to cover everything. Not to mention the serious water damage if the sprinkler system goes off.

If you live in an apartment and don't have a balcony, I think the next best thing would be to have something like a fire bag/box next to a window with an aluminum exhaust duct.

There are already buildings in NYC that ban PEVs inside. Unless there's a way to fireproof PEVs, insurance companies are not going to take the risk. The problem is that even if they are engineered and manufactured perfectly safe, there's no accounting for what a rider might do to a wheel which might instigate a fire.

[RagingGrandpa]

Discussion with lots of good ideas, in our thread on fire-safe EUC storage below:

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/12959-fireproof-euc-charging-station/

 

 

[AtlasP]

Sherman fire? Unclear if in this case the batteries went at all or just the control board (it seems this thread isn't tracking 'mere' burn-ups of the control board versus requiring the batteries to go), but worth maybe following up on as a documented Veteran/Sherman incident. https://facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/posts/4427837793980816/

[supercurio]

3 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

Sherman fire? Unclear if in this case the batteries went at all or just the control board (it seems this thread isn't tracking 'mere' burn-ups of the control board versus requiring the batteries to go), but worth maybe following up on as a documented Veteran/Sherman incident. https://facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/posts/4427837793980816/

This is the typical mainboard burning itself up, no other damage it seems according to the provided pictures.

[Mango]

There is a report of an euc fire yesterday in a house involving a MSP HT in Sweden.

Not yet verified, but source seems legit.

[div]

Source?

[supercurio]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

There is a report of an euc fire yesterday in a house involving a MSP HT in Sweden.

Not yet verified, but source seems legit.

I can confirm from a local chat group.
I'll check later if the person affected is willing to share information (for now I sense that maybe not)

[Asphalt]

22 minutes ago, supercurio said:

I can confirm from a local chat group.
I'll check later if the person affected is willing to share information (for now I sense that maybe not)

Yes, please ask them to share a link so that we can document it with evidence.

[Nostris]

5 hours ago, supercurio said:

I can confirm from a local chat group.
I'll check later if the person affected is willing to share information (for now I sense that maybe not)

Maybe check with Mike Sacristan…..aka isthereanyfood on YT…..He would probably know. 

[Spaghetteh]

I felt inspired to parse the original post to a spreadsheet that can be found here as I personally find data in this format to be easier to digest. I plan to keep it up-to-date with this post along with any other confirmed cases I find. I also plan to iterate upon these entries and add new fields of data (e.g age-of-wheel, involved-in-crash, water-exposure, etc). As my own personal project I don't intend on sharing edit perms with the community but please reach out to me with additions, corrections, or other suggestions you may have as this is intended to be a community resource.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Spaghetteh