"Dangerous" motorchange on Inmotion V11 is is possible?

[null]

1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

I just expressed the reasons for which inmotion has the reputation of being the safest.

The reputation which is a recent fabrication by a few inmotion fans, based on earlier reduction of top speed and happily ignoring every other safety margin factor. I suspect there is also a layer of inferiority complex, or you would embrace IMs as the handy and well finished EUCs they are, without having to insist on this safety superiority spin at every turn. This "reputation" only exist within your circle repeating it as a mantra.

Your claim is much too bold to just throw around as it was fact.

I find you guys directly irresponsible to go around misleading newbies like that. Safety is a serious matter.

Edited December 8, 2020 by null

[EUChristian]

1 hour ago, null said:

The reputation which is a recent fabrication by a few inmotion fans, based on earlier reduction of top speed and happily ignoring every other safety margin factor. I suspect there is also a layer of inferiority complex, or you would embrace IMs as the handy and well finished EUCs they are, without having to insist on this safety superiority spin at every turn. This "reputation" only exist within your circle repeating it as a mantra.

Your claim is much too bold to just throw around as it was fact.

I find you guys directly irresponsible to go around misleading newbies like that. Safety is a serious matter.

I faceplanted at 32mph missing tiltback on the V11.  I can't disagree with you here. I see you take this safety thing a bit personally and realize why you do - safety is important and your life depends on it. However to try to say that people who are repeating what they've heard - as I've heard that too - is based on an inferiority complex...come on now I doubt that. 

Two year ago when I started on wheels I heard that rumor and accepted it as fact as well. Now I know it isn't. 

I think its more a by-wheel safety vs a by-brand. Each EUC stands on its own.  Software gives it some continuity but many times I've seen a specific wheel released with specific issues that does not end up impacting all the brands wheels. 

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

The wheel was not designed for that speed

Not quite true. The wheel was announced as having a to speed of around 55km/h a year ago, well before it was even called “V11”. Lowering the top speed to 50km/h happened at some point before the introduction event, which is why the community started asking for the original top speed.

[Unventor]

I think many things are discussed here that are import to debate but not really fitting under this thread. 

And like maby other debates have strong opinions but none can really put facts behind these. 

So to come back on thread track. I asked Inmotion staff if they were making some easy to follow video/documentations to follow. Mainly as I myself are looking to shift to a winter tire I just ordered today. Sometimes I wish I lived at @Marty Backe place with his "winter weather" but then again I would not like his summers (I am not build for heat). 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Unventor

[mrelwood]

3 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

I think its more a by-wheel safety vs a by-brand. Each EUC stands on its own.  Software gives it some continuity but many times I've seen a specific wheel released with specific issues that does not end up impacting all the brands wheels. 

Well said. It is just much easier for people to lump attributes on the whole brand instead of wheel-to-wheel basis.

[EUChristian]

Just now, Unventor said:

I think many things are discussed here that are import to debate but not really fitting under this thread. 

And like maby other debates have strong opinions but none can really put facts behind these. 

Agreed. I dropped debating because it's pointless. The topic was inflammatory and I think its burned to the core here. 

[EUChristian]

6 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

I faceplanted at 32mph missing tiltback on the V11.  I can't disagree with you here. I see you take this safety thing a bit personally and realize why you do - safety is important and your life depends on it. However to try to say that people who are repeating what they've heard - as I've heard that too - is based on an inferiority complex...come on now I doubt that. 

Two year ago when I started on wheels I heard that rumor and accepted it as fact as well. Now I know it isn't. 

I think its more a by-wheel safety vs a by-brand. Each EUC stands on its own.  Software gives it some continuity but many times I've seen a specific wheel released with specific issues that does not end up impacting all the brands wheels. 

Id also like to say I pushed the wheel and accept the results...but I was under the impression it would take a lot more to overlean. Don't want to get into that mess again. I think the 5 second delay and tiltback setting need to be adjusted but that is my personal opinion. I love my V11. 

[Unventor]

1 minute ago, EUChristian said:

Id also like to say I pushed the wheel and accept the results...but I was under the impression it would take a lot more to overlean. Don't want to get into that mess again. I think the 5 second delay and tiltback setting need to be adjusted but that is my personal opinion. I love my V11. 

I think the V11 and KS16X have much in common. Both wheels very liked by some yet push to far because people felt safer than the wheel could handle. 

That said I do think the V11 is a much safer wheel than my KS16X and was much easier to adapt to too. I also think the 3rd/4th batch looks like many things have been fixed or improved or changed down to lessons learned by Inmotion and rides alike. 

I too really love my V11 (a word I seldom use when it comes to items, it should mainly be dedicated to livings things Imho). Yet in this case I will make this exception. 

Now on my question to Inmotion I didn't get a clear answer. So my guess is they would look at this and make some sort of guide. Which I think is called for and should be made for any wheel. Already at day zero of sales (start/delivery). 

[GoGeorgeGo]

2 hours ago, null said:

The reputation which is a recent fabrication by a few inmotion fans, based on earlier reduction of top speed and happily ignoring every other safety margin factor. I suspect there is also a layer of inferiority complex, or you would embrace IMs as the handy and well finished EUCs they are, without having to insist on this safety superiority spin at every turn. This "reputation" only exist within your circle repeating it as a mantra.

Your claim is much too bold to just throw around as it was fact.

I find you guys directly irresponsible to go around misleading newbies like that. Safety is a serious matter.

No need to get personal, its simply a discussion.  I see some people seriously disagree with the idea much more intensely than i agree with it. I did not know the topic would be so controversial

[null]

1 hour ago, EUChristian said:

I see you take this safety thing a bit personally

Yes I will stop repeating myself, what had to be said is said.
In general I dont mind to disagree, opinions are free, but in this specific case it is a statement and a bold one at that. 
Besides it seems to reflect a growing brand "team" (fanboy) attitude we see in every other hobby but that we where relatively free from until the V11/S18 shitshow.

Anyhow, enough finger waving from me for now, please go on with Finns dangerous motor.

[EUChristian]

32 minutes ago, null said:

Anyhow, enough finger waving from me for now, please go on with Finns dangerous motor.

Perhaps the best comment of the thread. I had almost forgotten the dangerous motor of Finn. Not sure why I'm here suddenly. 

[Mac]

Safety? Hmm, such thin margins between the arguments above. When we started hang gliding, we flew gliders that had the L/D of a well placed rock. Within a few years we felt we had wings that were safe and touted there ability to fly safely, yet by todays standards you couldn’t find anyone that would even consider flying one. Same thing when we started flying paragliders those wings would wad up in a ball and throw you at the ground.

Safety is a relative term and as pointed out above it gives the noob the impression that some of these things are safe! You can grind your face off at 10 mph, and without some safety gear you are asking for at the very least some road rash or broken wrists. If you guys spent the same amount of time debating the merits of safety gear the noobs would have a better understanding of the risks involved in the early adoption of our sport.

Hmm, I wonder if we could mount a ballistic chute on one?

[Rawnei]

28 minutes ago, Mac said:

Safety? Hmm, such thin margins between the arguments above. When we started hang gliding, we flew gliders that had the L/D of a well placed rock. Within a few years we felt we had wings that were safe and touted there ability to fly safely, yet by todays standards you couldn’t find anyone that would even consider flying one. Same thing when we started flying paragliders those wings would wad up in a ball and throw you at the ground.

Safety is a relative term and as pointed out above it gives the noob the impression that some of these things are safe! You can grind your face off at 10 mph, and without some safety gear you are asking for at the very least some road rash or broken wrists. If you guys spent the same amount of time debating the merits of safety gear the noobs would have a better understanding of the risks involved in the early adoption of our sport.

Hmm, I wonder if we could mount a ballistic chute on one?

Not sure what point you are trying to make here or why you are comparing EUC's to gliding.

The unique feature of EUC is that it can just stop functioning when it runs out of power and there need to be effective means of telling the rider before this happens, hence the discussion about safety.

Regarding gear it's already a well discussed and accepted point of discussion in other topics.

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, null said:

Besides it seems to reflect a growing brand "team" (fanboy) attitude we see in every other hobby but that we where relatively free from until the V11/S18 shitshow.

I think the fanboy attitude was just as strongly present with GotWay years ago already, it just presented itself differently since they didn’t have “the other team” to fight against.

[Mac]

2 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Not sure what point you are trying to make here or why you are comparing EUC's to gliding.

The unique feature of EUC is that it can just stop functioning when it runs out of power and there need to be effective means of telling the rider before this happens, hence the discussion about safety.

Regarding gear it's already a well discussed and accepted point of discussion in other topics.

Yup you missed the point...

[Unventor]

14 hours ago, null said:

Yes I will stop repeating myself, what had to be said is said.
In general I dont mind to disagree, opinions are free, but in this specific case it is a statement and a bold one at that. 
Besides it seems to reflect a growing brand "team" (fanboy) attitude we see in every other hobby but that we where relatively free from until the V11/S18 shitshow.

Anyhow, enough finger waving from me for now, please go on with Finns dangerous motor.

Okey fayboy label have been toss about the forum before. Long time before the V11 and S18. 

I don't mind this, to me it is not a bad thing despite what other have of opinion on this. 

Now for a much wider view on this. I will argue that thread names like this one is very counterproductive for all parties, manufactor/brand/reseller/end-user/future riders. 

Imo the meme attitude we see helps no-one at all. Looking things as community/long term impact/what a company dare to do, will be hold back by these negative/catastrophic/attention seeking headlines/YouTube and the people that make these. 

I don't think people fully realise how big an improvement it is to have direct channels to companies that listen and try to adapt to feedback they get. 

In my view there is no such thing as positive or negative feedback. But there are good and bad ways to go about this. If you want people to listen and take it on board your feedback you need to be constructive. Thread headline like this is not. 

It is all about how to successful to communicate with people. When there is a language barrier and big differences in culture too being sarcastic and making jokes on stereotypes do not help at all either. Having no knowledge of what you are entitled to or have expertation that is very far of what is possible is at first down to reseller and buyers relationship. What happens between reseller and manufactor really is not the concern of the buyer. If you are not happy with your terms take you business to a different reseller. Big question here is if any can meet your expectations as a customer? If not do reflect on your expectations, that is the short version of this. 

No if someone stand up not giving the answer you want, question is if this is a fayboy or not? 

I make not secret I don't like the Gotway/Begood/Vetran approach. I though KingSong did okey. But I had some bad experience with my reseller later with the model. Now I am very happy with my reseller of my KS16X. The KS16X was great. But it had problems. I saw Inmotion reaching out and I gave them my feedback what I like to see. They listened delivered and I bought my V11. Best eherl I every had. 

But I recognise some have problems andost of these are very unfortunate. Some could be prevented. Most likely lesson learn I hope both on brand, community and enduser/buyer. 

It should have to be like this, that first few batches have issues. But this market is very tuff and release of new model is very important for "small companies" to get this right. That is why development is nearly there yet not 100%. We see this in gaming industry too. 

My personal opinion is this just a global trend that changes happen very fast on a global scale. Go back 50 years and see how fast new ideas/inventions/products were from start to market/customer. It will be even faster going forward. 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Unventor

[Finn Bjerke]

Got the replacement package from Inmotion No instructions, no video, no service. Is this Chinese arrogance? We are all beta testers?  The "danger" aspect here related to what marty said about connecting some electric cables. Maybe it worried me A little too much perhaps.  Since this is a DIY project some help from Inmotion would be nice  - They leave that to others - thats lousy service. 

Pix: https://ibb.co/album/ZLrtrz  

Edited December 11, 2020 by Finn Bjerke

[Unventor]

34 minutes ago, Finn Bjerke said:

Got the package from Inmotion No instructions, no video, no service. Chinese arrogance? We are all beta testers.  Pix: https://ibb.co/album/ZLrtrz  

If you wait a day or two you might see me posting something about me swapping to a winter tire. 

I start the process tomorrow (is the plan). 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Unventor

[Finn Bjerke]

5 minutes ago, Unventor said:

If you wait a day or two you might see me posting something about me swapping to a winter tire. 

I start the process tomorrow (is the plan). 

 

Good on ya mate. Good luck. Mrelwood and other consumers are doing Inmotions work for them, but in all fairness Inmotion have an official dismantle video.  swapping tire is a job Ill leave to the local bikerepair shop.  

[Unventor]

Now I like to share first hand since tire change is a topic we all have to do at some point. And that technical should cover a motor swap too. 

I discussed this briefly just now with people at Inmotion. I have made some suggestions. And I am very happy to say once again Inmotion impressed me hugely. 

I understand that they are very busy right now. I don't know details to why but I have my ideas, but nothing confirmed. But I think that be for a very different thread. 

As to the topic here I got confirmation that Inmotion will make video showing what and how to do. The guy I wrote to have taken on some points that I think is either missing or where I am not sure what I am getting into since I have not yet opened my V11. 

It was a very constructive dialog I had. But since they are very busy I will say any excat time frame. But it is close enough that I decided to pause my task of swapping to my winter tire. 

I am one of those that prepare a lot before I do things especially since I use my V11 as only means of transport. My other EUCs are not practically in use since the V11 is so good and smooth to ride even with my bad knees. (when bone hit bone in the knees that is when you realise how much suspension means and when it is set up right). 

Update: Liam just posted on telegram an video will come out in a week or so. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Unventor

[mike_bike_kite]

 

Quote

Finn Bjerke changed the title to "Dangerous" motorchange on Inmotion V11 is is possible?

Nothing about the process is dangerous. Motorchange is not a word and I don't believe you need to change the motor anyway. Also not sure why you repeated the word "is" twice. You should just change the tile to "How do I change the motor bearings on my V11".

[Finn Bjerke]

Quote

Nothing about the process is dangerous. Motorchange is not a word and I don't believe you need to change the motor anyway. Also not sure why you repeated the word "is" twice. You should just change the tile to "How do I change the motor bearings on my V11".

I hope you are right my electric friend. Inmotion send me a new motor on a wheel. So motor change is the correct term. However if the bearing on the new motor is crap, then we all have to go into the hollow motor and find bearing not produced in China, since bearings ualkity is better in EU / USA.  If you look very closely at Marty video, the disconnect and reconnect of the electricity could easily go wrong. So I respectfully disagree mr Bike-kite of London. Im less angry now so I changed thread title from dangerous to  "dangerous" which is a litle silly, but hey man the internet police is after me.  Im inpolitely told to be polite.  Inmotion have underengineered parts of V11 and now they need to inform better. Inmmotion are succesfully busy I gather. I like that. So how about making a better V11 and help us out instead of focusing on v12 a non suspension wheel? Inmotion are busy and they listen to feedback from freinds.  Im not a close freind, I speak my mind.  My mouth is bigger than my brain.  This is "dangerous" but advice in here are greately appreciated.  Funny how ppl from Finland have great advice and nuanced  electric views after all they are the funniest ppl on the planet:   https://theculturetrip.com/europe/finland/articles/why-does-finland-have-so-many-wacky-sports-events/

Edited December 12, 2020 by Finn Bjerke

[Finn Bjerke]

marriage counsel in Finland 

They bloody well NEED suspension wheels. 

[Finn Bjerke]

Food for thought: V11 is simply too good for us, thx for that mate. We cant ride other wheels anymore, seriously they are not good enough, V11 bloody well rules once you get used to its high pedals. A nice relevant comment, we dont need knee problems or too much impact on us anymore, the suspension and maybe seats will solve that problem. V11 is safer for you in many ways.
 

Quote

As to the topic here I got confirmation that Inmotion will make video showing what and how to do. The guy I wrote to have taken on some points that I think is either missing or where I am not sure what I am getting into since I have not yet opened my V11. 

In Martys video there are 2 important points about connedting and disconnecting the power to the wheel, that is what scares me off doing this, but I bloody well have to, since tire changing tire is needed sooner or later anyway. The ideal Scandinavian Winter tire plus moderne off road pedals that can handle snow is the future for some of us Nordic viking types. I hope Inmotion v11f will be less complicated to operate when it comes to tire shift and suspension regulation.  "Easy acces" is the key to this.  On the positive side:  
I wish all EUCs had suspension.  Even the mten3. (not possible) Greetings from "rude viking" From my heart thx for all the relevant comments, also the not so relevant.  

In the end we will probably be forced to change bearing s inside the motor anyway.  The hollow motor construction is the future, I wonder if the new GW monster have that too? Sherman Veteran does not. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Finn Bjerke

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, Finn Bjerke said:

In the end we will probably be forced to change bearing s inside the motor anyway. 

Probably not. And at the very least, if I were you, I would definately not in a million years take the risk of letting absolutely any non-EUC experienced personnel operating on any part of the V11. Even the tire. Especially on a new motor you haven't yet even installed. Replacing only the bearings would be a work much more involved than following the existing instructions for replacing the whole motor. It would be warranty on the motor thrown out of the window as well. The bearings have already been upgraded twice, and based on your photos you have the latest one. I suggest you do what many people have already suggested you to do, which is just pop the tire to the new motor, put the new motor into the V11, and start riding again!

Edit: Being scared about the wires is good. That's why they are included in Marty's instructions, so that people wouldn't do something they didn't know was dangerous. If you connect the connectors as instructed, all is well and there is no longer any danger. Battery connectors have been succesfully plugged in and unplugged thousands of times all around the world.

Edited December 12, 2020 by mrelwood