"Dangerous" motorchange on Inmotion V11 is is possible?

[Finn Bjerke]

Better film here: Thx again mate: 

 

[Finn Bjerke]

I want condoms, raincoats and wheel bearings to be strong and waterproof, any questions?   

[Finn Bjerke]

So how about sending Wheel + Motor  when the bearings cant stand a little rain. ? The  only ppl who can sell shitty products all the time are priests? Here is the exception to the rule: 

 

[Rawnei]

@Finn Bjerke did you get any response from your reseller? I'm in the same situation now.

[Finn Bjerke]

Im sorry to hear that mate - Ill get the new motor in a week or so. Im not sure the new one have good bearings ... If not Ill go Haddock 

[EUChristian]

13 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

You honestly think they didnt even test the bearing? Lol come on give then a little more credit than that.  This is a multi million dollar corporation making a HIGHLY sophisticated machine.  

Obviously they rushed whatever testing they did and it came back to bite them. This was an unexpected snag, they pivoted on the fly instead of continuing to send out the same problems to people.  I appreciate that they acted as fast as possible even if it was in vein.

Im not here to defend inmotion, but i do think accusations of no quality control and untested equipment are a little unfounded and unfair

For what its worth, im 650 km in on my v11 , no bearing issues so far (knock on wood) and i live in a wet region

Nobody is making a case for no QC in this thread. Thats been said three times now.  

And no - I don't think they tested the bearing at length. At least not a real test. Gotway is having a similar issue with hollow bore motors. They are both installing new tech without putting it through the proper trials.  And we all know that. Thats not the argument. Its this guy has a 2k paperweight and he has to fix it himself. 

[GoGeorgeGo]

35 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

Nobody is making a case for no QC in this thread. Thats been said three times now.  

And no - I don't think they tested the bearing at length. At least not a real test. Gotway is having a similar issue with hollow bore motors. They are both installing new tech without putting it through the proper trials.  And we all know that. Thats not the argument. Its this guy has a 2k paperweight and he has to fix it himself. 

A "real test" takes months to conduct.  I would have lost my MIND if they delayed production 3 months to test a new bearing.

We all wish every singlr machine was perfect but just look ar the failure rates on brand new wheels posted by Mr.Hegov.  you have wheels in production for years with out of the box failure rates of over 10%.  Thats abysmal

Statistically, Inmotion has the least out of box issues of any brand.  They also sell the most wheels, meaning your going to have more exposure to potential issues

We can all agree that a wheel being DOA is completely unacceptable.  But these issues will not resolve themselves until we the consumer stop buying lower quality higher performance machines 

IMO a company like Gotway is AMAZING for the evolution of the EUC.  However as the other companys catch up in performance, their low build quality may put them out of buisness over time.  But for now, they still have another 4-5 years of competitive headroom as they rush out the highest performance wheels on the market.  

We are essentially taking our lumps on quality now, to ensure we get higher performance wheels developed faster. All the R+D money and time is being spent on increasing performance of every model.  Eventually specs will start to level out and then those resources can go towards higher quality.  

[.....]

21 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

A "real test" takes months to conduct.  I would have lost my MIND if they delayed production 3 months to test a new bearing.

 

and a REAL TEST needs conducted LONG BEFORE any info is released and you are even able to lose your mind for waiting.  R&D first, marketing second, sales third. Mixing the order of the steps is the issue.

[GoGeorgeGo]

9 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

and a REAL TEST needs conducted LONG BEFORE any info is released and you are even able to lose your mind for waiting.  R&D first, marketing second, sales third. Mixing the order of the steps is the issue.

In a more established industry i 100% agree. But just the fact that gotway exists is proof there is money to be made if you sell first, and market and R+D later lol

[EUChristian]

40 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

We are essentially taking our lumps on quality now, to ensure we get higher performance wheels developed faster. 

Read what you read sir, but as a third party who just bought this wheel online, isn't a member of this forum and now has a 2k box of jangling wrenches when he moves. He shells out 2K to "take the lumps" for future innovation hahahahahhaahhah are you serious?  That sentence should be included in the manual!  Had i read it there i would have realized my 2k purchase was for the future common good vs for my riding pleasure. 

I keep seeing the strawman argument that we are saying that this wheel should be perfect or that we are saying there is zero QC from Inmotion. Nobody is saying that so repeating it again and again is silly. We are saying that at this point in evolution of EUCs there are basic components- like motor cables rubbing, rusted bearings, missing screws and shims - that should be GOOD ON ALL UNITS at this point. These basics don't rely on innovation. They are basics. And when you move to 2k plus EUCs the expectation is different than a 1200 dollar wheel. 

Again the reason why this problem still exists is because half of this forum doesnt care if its still a problem and run defense on it because they stated on an Airwheel in 2014 and can't believe we could put down the tech on this higly evolved wheel. That sounds like a bunch of rocks to more and more people daily. 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by EUChristian

[EUChristian]

7 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

In a more established industry i 100% agree. But just the fact that gotway exists is proof there is money to be made if you sell first, and market and R+D later lol

I will agree with you here...but Inmotion isn't Gotway and they should go premium and become the Lexus of the brands. And they would gain market share fast. 

2 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Yup, you totally got me there. Money talks and thats no lie.

Actually half of the forums argument is money doesn't talk here. 

[Bumblebees]

Is Gotway that bad?  

[GoGeorgeGo]

8 minutes ago, Bumblebees said:

Is Gotway that bad?  

Gotway makes a high end machine.  They prioritize performance over all else in their designs.  But the construction quality leaves a lot to be desired.  Their control boards can be pretty ugly looking, and the battery packs are just wrapped in plastic and glued to the inside (on the msp anyways).  They are known for having glaring QC issues in the past, although from all accounts they have gotten better (for 3500$ on the new units they better be better lol)

That said i almost whent with a gotway RS over the V11.  What kept me on team v11 is how nice the batterys are managed.  Not only do they have that awesome split pack BMS emergency fail safe system, but they also have very solid construction cases attached to the wheel with a handful of screws. 

[EUChristian]

2 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Gotway makes a high end machine.  They prioritize performance over all else in their designs.  But the construction quality leaves a lot to be desired.  Their control boards can be pretty ugly looking, and the battery packs are just wrapped in plastic and glued to the inside (on the msp anyways).  They are known for having glaring QC issues in the past, although from all accounts they have gotten better (for 3500$ on the new units they better be better lol)

That said i almost whent with a gotway RS over the V11.  What kept me on team v11 is how nice the batterys are managed.  Not only do they have that awesome split pack BMS emergency fail safe system, but they also have very solid construction cases attached to the wheel with a handful of screws. 

Agreed mine bounced 35 feet and outside of a broken handle the outside shell handled impact very well. 

[Finn Bjerke]

Just saw a video on how to change bearings on a simpler wheel, very informative: I cant bloody do this and the "guarantee" I have really should cover it.  Thx for good info ppl   Also its possible to buy German bearings that are better

https://www.kugellager-shop.net/kugellager-6816-2rs-2rsr-2rs1.html

And  nice datasheet directly on the product website.
Now im curious about the bearings Inmotion uses.
Who's the manufacturer.

And here are other versions of the same bearing type with better corrosion protection
https://www.kugellager-shop.net/catalogsearch/result/?cat=&q=6816

And a great video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W-GeIzWC-k

 

 

[Unventor]

17 hours ago, Finn Bjerke said:

Im sorry to hear that mate - Ill get the new motor in a week or so. Im not sure the new one have good bearings ... If not Ill go Haddock 

You already did several this ehh sorry my bad. You only did once (constantly}. 

[mrelwood]

 

Quote

Thats not the argument. Its this guy has a 2k paperweight and he has to fix it himself. 

This has also been said many times already: No he doesn’t! He can return the item for repairs, exactly the way that is done with practically every single new product that has an issue, mail order or not.

 If you buy a car that turns out having bad bearings, do you expect the manufacturer - not even the seller, but manufacturer - to either come to your house to get the car taken for repairs, or just provide you with a new car? That would be so obviously a ridiculous claim, so why is it expected from Inmotion?

Quote

And when you move to 2k plus EUCs the expectation is different than a 1200 dollar wheel.

Just to note, the price range where a wheel is allowed to be of a lower quality is nothing but a thing you have formed yourself over time after learning about various wheels. I don’t think it’s a common viewpoint, and it’s definitely not something a person buying one’s first EUC would know.

Quote

Again the reason why this problem still exists is because half of this forum doesnt care if its still a problem and run defense on it because they stated on an Airwheel in 2014 and can't believe we could put down the tech on this higly evolved wheel. That sounds like a bunch of rocks to more and more people daily.

To accept or understand how things are is not the same as “don’t care”. And to try to educate others on how things are is not “defense”. And if the half of the forum all wrote “Unacceptable!!1!”, it would change absolutely nothing in how:

- mail ordering basics work all around the world,

- Chinese EUC manufacturers test their products,

- they choose the manufacturers or quality levels of the parts used in EUCs.

 

 Looked like you tried to make your post seem like an actual argument in a debate. But where it fell short was that the comments and claims were guided by emotions of frustration and/or anger, they are not reasonable.

 And we get it! If you are one of the 0.1%, 1%, or whatever the failure rate is, it SUCKS! BIG time. But no amount of sucking and frustration changes the OP’s options for getting a working wheel, or the three key points I listed above.

Edited December 6, 2020 by mrelwood

[mike_bike_kite]

16 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

He can return the item for repairs, exactly the way that is done with practically every single new product that has an issue, mail order or not.

 

 If you buy a car that turns out having bad bearings, do you expect the manufacturer - not even the seller, but manufacturer - to either come to your house to get the car taken for repairs, or just provide you with a new car? 

I agree with most of what you say but with cars it's easy to go to your local dealer and ask them to fix something under warranty. With smaller items it's easy and fairly cheap to post an item back but with a 30Kg wheel it's not easy at all. I certainly don't keep the box and packaging for more than a day or two. Then there's the delay: you posting the wheel to a local supplier, them inspecting it, for spare parts to be sent from China, for parts to be installed, tested, then posted back to you. This is a big contrast to taking your car to the local Ford dealers and saying could you replace something under warranty.

It's probably unfair to expect local suppliers to have all spare part available, especially if new wheels appear every few months. It might be good though if manufacturers gave a supply of parts that most likely break to a central dealer who could then supply other local dealers. The parts would be initially supplied for free but paid for when used - this stops dealers from having to tie up money in lots of spare parts. Customers would benefit as they'd get their wheels back sooner. It would be OK if every city had a wheel mechanic but we're a long way off that. For the moment we just have to either buy reliable wheels or have spare wheels.

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I agree with most of what you say but with cars it's easy to go to your local dealer and ask them to fix something under warranty.

On a country road Christmas holidays it might not be as easy or like a colleague of mine on a long car holiday in summertime. 

A car is not an easy item to move depending on what is broken. 

Not if doesn't really matter. It isn't like Inmotion do not provide warranty service. But it is the reseller that is first point of contact. It is not like Inmotion is not trying to build up a distribution chain global either, yet people moan about having to go to a specific reseller like ut happen in France. 

Yes like @mrelwoodwrote about there are terms and conditions and then you have I wist it never breaks down and I wisk I could have I want scenarios.

In the end of the day manufactor and resellers have to work by the law of the country they are selling the products from. That is not necessarily the same as the buyers country of residence. Price will be set by what terms and warranty you most provide in a country. 

Now we have seen all brands being blamed from poor quality from time to time. I think it is sad Inmotion got let down by a supplier and they have taken the consequences of this. They changed motor manufacturer. I just hope it improves things. 

[Rawnei]

@Finn Bjerke which reseller did you buy from? Did you have to send your old motor back to them?

[mrelwood]

8 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

With smaller items it's easy and fairly cheap to post an item back but with a 30Kg wheel it's not easy at all.

I wasn’t talking about easiness of the choices, but how things are being done in all other areas of business as well. It’s not easy to take one’s air conditioner back to the seller either (trust me, I know), yet that is simply how warranty works. I didn’t get a spare unit for the duration of the repairs, nor did I get a new item until the seller shipped the broken one to the importer first to be inspected. The methods that are used are clearly laid out in the warranty terms of any seller, and they all follow the same principle.

Edited December 6, 2020 by mrelwood

[Planemo]

9 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

 It might be good though if manufacturers gave a supply of parts that most likely break to a central dealer who could then supply other local dealers. 

It is what it is. Buy a wheel locally and get the backup, or distance buy (to save money - why else?) and get the agg when it goes wrong. I don't see the problem. The customer has the choice.

I have taken the risk of buying all my wheels from China rather than Speedy, but always fully aware of the above. As soon as I distance buy to save money, I can't bleat if something goes wrong.

And as mrelwood says, it is unrealistic to expect a seller to simply provide a new wheel free of charge, with free postage, before even inspecting the alleged broken wheel. And then the customer would no doubt also want the seller to collect the dead wheel free of charge as well. It would be financial suicide IMO if a company did all that.

Unfortunately we seem to live in a world where everyone 'wants something done immediately, at no cost or loss to ME' but it doesn't work like that. Shit does and still happens.

And using the argument that a £2k wheel should in some way provide extra re-assurance because of it's cost doesn't mean anything. It's still cheap. Just look at what Ninebot were selling the Z10 for when it came out (around £2k IIRC, for a non-suspended, 995Wh wheel).

[Unventor]

14 hours ago, Rawnei said:

@Finn Bjerke which reseller did you buy from? Did you have to send your old motor back to them?

I am pretty sure it was Speedyfeet. And this is part reason why shipping back to reseller is expensive as they are now outside EU. 

[Finn Bjerke]

"Service" from Inmotion is a bloody charade.  "Help" is a Marty Video, the very same video which some techs believe has faults - The very same video that  points out that its possible to connect the electricity in a dangerous way.   Here is the correspondance:

 

Quote

 

Hi

I'm not sure how to change motor, any advice?  Regarding the motor are we sure it's not the same faulty bearings?  I love this suspension wheel and the future will bring more and better suspension wheels. Mr Elwood of Finland have a v11 disassemble video on the net the whole projects makes me a little uncertain, but basically it's not different from a tireshift I guess

Answer is: 
There are videos out there of the motor change - you are right, its the same ALMOST as changing a tire out. This might help as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGZ-GewNhkg

I cant find the motorchange videos, where are they? Oh bearings are attached to motor motor is attached to new wheel, is that the package I get? Some EUC tech friends tell me they wouldnt do this operation. On the other hand: I want to be able to change a tire.  A spot of ressearch makes me a little nervous this looks difficult.... 

Quote

Reddit:
Make sure the motor/wheel is aligned and reassemble it.  

What does that even mean? I assume I get this sparepart ? What is the alignement problem then reffering too?  How can I check if new bearings are OK - its RS something ? 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Finn Bjerke
correction

[Finn Bjerke]

OH its not that complicated I get wheel and motor?  that a releif then.  Ill have a bike dude change the swap the tire and tube (and slime)