catalog 18x3 street tires (MSuper's, Shermans, S22, etc)

[EMA]

c113 it's a really good tire, 1.9kg , it has not deep thread like other tires but it's more soft, let's say between a super cheap 1488 and a mc tire.

it's one of my favourite, not as good as k66 offroad but better than kenda k340 and cst c6004

[supercurio]

Thanks @EMA you convinced me to keep the original idea to install the C113 😆, at the same time as I'll add the axle sealant on my Sherman Max.

Edited August 24, 2022 by supercurio

[novazeus]

41 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Every model marked '18" class' in the table has a 14" rim  

 

my s18 is coming today. it has a 14" rim? so the s22 tire would fit if there were clearance?

hopefully if fedex doesn't screw up again, i'll be able to measure the s18 today.

standardizing wheel size would be handy seeing how most folks are buying blind.

[RagingGrandpa]

@novazeus: diameter is standardized... but body clearance varies widely by model. 

S18 has a very tight plastic fender, and even though the rim could easily accept any 14"-ID tire, the fender will not.

[novazeus]

51 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

@novazeus: diameter is standardized... but body clearance varies widely by model. 

S18 has a very tight plastic fender, and even though the rim could easily accept any 14"-ID tire, the fender will not.

yup, it's here. tire diameter isn't standardized. 

but yeah, the s18 has a 14" rim with a 2.5" tire, so 5 plus 14 equals 19". it's a 19" tire because it's street, no knobs like the other mod said. the s22 has a 3" tire so 6 plus 14 equals 20" tire diameter.

i was just curious how these manufacturers were measuring them. be easier if they just denoted the rim size and told u what tire it has.

so, the s18 is like the begode one with 19" tire.

[Tawpie]

10 minutes ago, novazeus said:

i was just curious how these manufacturers were measuring them

6" rulers

[Funky]

2 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

6" rulers

Kinda small.

[mrelwood]

16 hours ago, novazeus said:

the s18 has a 14" rim with a 2.5" tire, so 5 plus 14 equals 19".

S18 has a 3" tire as well. But in practice it’s width (at least when installed on an EUC rim) is smaller.

 The tire isn’t perfectly tubular, and the inner diameter isn’t precisely at the bottom of the tube, so you don’t get precise results with those calculations. But it usually gets you in the ballpark.

 Knobs aren’t included in the tire size classifications, so a 3” knobby is wider and taller than a 3” street tire.

16 hours ago, novazeus said:

be easier if they just denoted the rim size and told u what tire it has.

Absolutely! The switch to such naming is challenging though, since EUCs started with bicycle tires where they only denote the approximate outer diameter, but have lately transformed to use motorcycle tires that denote the rim size. Having a 14” EUC from ’23 equal a 18” EUC from ‘22 would be very confusing.

 Then there’s the S22 that has a 14” rim which used to be called a 18” EUC, or 19” by GotWay, and 20” by LeaperKim. But has nothing to do with 22”. It’s previous name S20 used to hint the size, but not anymore.

Edited December 17, 2022 by mrelwood

[novazeus]

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

S18 has a 3" tire as well. But in practice it’s width (at least when installed on an EUC rim) is smaller.

 The tire isn’t perfectly tubular, and the inner diameter isn’t precisely at the bottom of the tube, so you don’t get precise results with those calculations. But it usually gets you in the ballpark.

 Knobs aren’t included in the tire size classifications, so a 3” knobby is wider and taller than a 3” street tire.

Absolutely! The switch to such naming is challenging though, since EUCs started with bicycle tires where they only denote the approximate outer diameter, but have lately transformed to use motorcycle tires that denote the rim size. Having a 14” EUC from ’23 equal a 18” EUC from ‘22 would be very confusing.

 Then there’s the S22 that has a 14” rim which used to be called a 18” EUC, or 19” by GotWay, and 20” by LeaperKim. But has nothing to do with 22”. It’s previous name S20 used to hint the size, but not anymore.

having been away for 4 years and just shopping for a new wheel, and overall tire diameter for me, made the operation of the euc different, bigger diameter, not as maneuverable. the s22 as shipped, 20" outside diameter, s18 as shipped, 19" diameter. 

i don't really care what the rim size is, the outsidie tire diameter affects my control, as does tire width, tire shape, tire compound, etc etc. it's what we ride on. 

[RagingGrandpa]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:45 AM, supercurio said:

I was planning to install the C113 on my Sherman Max

On 8/24/2022 at 8:26 AM, EMA said:

c113 it's a really good tire

it's one of my favourite, not as good as k66 offroad but better than kenda k340 and cst c6004

After disappointing results with K66 on the wider rims like SherMax ('square' feeling: strong uprighting and resistance to leaning over), I'm wondering: 

@supercurio how did C113 feel on SherMax? 
A: Freely falling into turns but requiring lots of lean angle for a tight radius, like K262/C186 knobbys? 
B: Medium like H5102, tigher radius turns but still little resistance to lean? 
C: Or, strongly forcing you upright? 

Thx

[EMA]

19 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

After disappointing results with K66 on the wider rims like SherMax ('square' feeling: strong uprighting and resistance to leaning over), I'm wondering: 

all the tires i try on wider rims act like this, at least all the ones i used to.

wider rims are really good for the knobby, not so much for the street tires imho

Edited May 17, 2023 by EMA

[supercurio]

On 5/16/2023 at 7:38 PM, RagingGrandpa said:

After disappointing results with K66 on the wider rims like SherMax ('square' feeling: strong uprighting and resistance to leaning over), I'm wondering: 

@supercurio how did C113 feel on SherMax? 
A: Freely falling into turns but requiring lots of lean angle for a tight radius, like K262/C186 knobbys? 
B: Medium like H5102, tigher radius turns but still little resistance to lean? 
C: Or, strongly forcing you upright? 

Unfortunately my plans for this Sherman Max changed and I've not had the opportunity to install the C113 yet.

However, while searching for the perfect tire I installed the Shinko 244 on my S22 and it's a mixed bag (at 33 PSI).
Excellent grip on and off-road, really tall and wide for an incredible protection of the rim when plowing through roots and rocks, feeling like a street tire on road, eating very agressive leans in high speed turns yet surprisingly nimble.
Would be too nimble for a cruising wheel IMO.

Downside for me: Subject to tramlining near the center - some amount of forcing upright in turns / tire trying to remain perpendicular to the ground / more force required on one foot than the other in turns / I'm guessing between your Option B or C (I don't have a fresh H5102 reference)

So after a few days of riding technical off-road and street, I end up with knee pain due to the the combined factors:

• wheel too wide at the top of the battery packs
• big calves
• uneven force required to lean the wheel to the side in turns with the Shinko 244

I guess we like the same kind of tire @RagingGrandpa, and although the Shinko 244 is certainly a joy to ride aggressively in all conditions, it's not the tire I've been looking for 😢

I don't know what to try next on the S22. Maybe Kenda 262.
I'm tempted by the Skinko 241 but would need to confirm it's not the same as 244 with different knobs.

Edited June 8, 2023 by supercurio

[Mitch G]

4 hours ago, supercurio said:

 

I don't know what to try next on the S22. Maybe Kenda 262.
I'm tempted by the Skinko 241 but would need to confirm it's not the same as 244 with different knobs.

I have the Shinko 241 on my master and can confirm it doesnt tramline or have the self upright feeling. If leans far into corners and remains there without having to hang off the side of the wheel to keep the turn. BUT... the master has a narrower rim than the s22. I think the wider rim plays a small part in the self upright feeling but I bet the 241 on the S22 would lean into turns more than the 244

[supercurio]

Thank you @Mitch G for the info on a 40mm rim.

An expert French rider, David Schwartz wrote in Esprit Roue forums in March his report about the Shinko SR241 on the S22.
I found his description of the SR244 matching very precisely my experience with it on the S22 so I trust his judgment.
Here's his post manually translated:

Quote

Having tried all three tires on the S22, the stock one, the Shinko 244 knobby with round profile, then the Shinko SR241 that looks like the CST 186..

With the stock one, no problem on on slanted/tilted grounds but it's too flat to my taste. It's not very agile but offers a good stability.

The Shinko SR244 is a trial tire with the round profile of a street tire! It makes the S22 super agile !! You can carve with it, complete a U-turn in a 1m circumference easily, it keeps traction on the edge of the profile, but on a tilted ground, although it still grips it reacts like a street tire: not its strong suit.

The Shinko SR241, like the CST 186 reacts a lot less to tilted grounds but in very tight turns it tends to fall off to the side.. a little surprising in the first kilometers but you get used to that quickly! It grips a bit better on mud than the SR244 but I also think it doesn't make the S22 as agile as the SR244...

My conclusion:

• Stock tire: lacks responsiveness, makes the S22 sluggish, good behavior on tilted grounds
• SR244: very nimble, knobby on a round street profile, good grip, struggle a bit on tilted grounds, kind of noisy, you can carve with it - crazy for a knobby tire!!
• SR241: more nimble than the stock tire but not as much as the SR244! Not bad on tilted grounds but when carving or taking tight turns tends to fall towards the inside of the turn. A bit quieter than its Shinko Brother but louder than the stock tire.

 

Not so easy to choose, it's also a matter of personal preference...

Personally I still ride with the SR244 that I find very versatile than the 2 others, it's good offroad, in the wet dirt or mud, on road (despite being noisy) and I can carev on the road.

I also asked him for an update on Telegram yesterday, where he added:

Quote

On the SR244, what I didn't like was noise on the road and vibrations & resonance coming from the tire.

Therefore I installed the SR241 instead for about a months. I love it! Much better on tilted grounds, fairly quiet on the road, makes the S22 as nimble as the SR244, no vibrations & resonances, better grip on dirt & gravel, but you can't carve as well as with the SR244.
I really like it!

I don't experience tramlining with the SR241, it's specced for 2.75" but in reality just like the SR244 it's 2.9" if you measure it.
I didn't like the Kenda 262 or CST C186 that much, especially the loose behavior with falling to the side in turns, something that the SR241 doesn't suffer from. It's not like the SR244 but still much better than the CST C186.

In terms of overall circumference, the SR241 is higher than the CST C186. SR241 and SR244 are about the same.

A Belgian friend told me that in their team of 7 riders who tried the SR244 and SR241, 6 of 7 people liked the SR241 better.

 Then he joined a picture of it installed on his S22, with the description:

Quote

The knobs are connected with a thick band that's larger and less deep in the thread than the rest, compared to the Kenda or CST which don't have that.
And on the side the knobs go 8mm further.

 

Therefore I already sold my Shinko 244 to a local rider who tried and loved it on my S22, and ordered a Shinko 241 right away 😌 

Edited June 9, 2023 by supercurio

[HANdaMAN]

On 6/9/2023 at 2:42 PM, supercurio said:

Therefore I already sold my Shinko 244 to a local rider who tried and loved it on my S22, and ordered a Shinko 241 right away 😌 

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience and David's summary.

I ordered both the 241 and 244 even before my S22 arrived, and I still can't decide which one to replace the stock tire with. Your posts made me lean heavily towards the 241, so I'm dying to know whether you have tried the 241 yet. If so, could you please share your experience with it?

[null]

The Michelin Pilot Street 2 doesn't seem to be available in my part of Europe.

Which would be the best alternative for a Commander Pro? (AFAIK same rim as Sherman Max, master etc)

Contiscoot have been mentioned as an alternative, how about the original Pilot Street?
Michelin City pro and City extra is also available here and mentioned now and then.

Else the C6004 and K340A could be found, they where popular on the OG Sherman, but how do they translate to the wider rim?

edit: I’m really looking for a street tire (not a knobby, not a dual sport) that rides well on a wide rim.. I can’t seem to have found much info about this in this tread. IMO it would be time for a new thread to discuss handling on wider rims.

Edited December 5, 2023 by null

[RagingGrandpa]

6 hours ago, null said:

K340A

I have K340A on the Sherm-S wide rim... and don't like it  
(It forces you upright.) 

I've heard good feedback about SR244 on the wide rim, but I'm not sure if you can get Shinko in France? 

Other options on Page 1, happy hunting.

[fbhb]

7 hours ago, null said:

Else the C6004 and K340A could be found, they where popular on the OG Sherman, but how do they translate to the wider rim?

I can confirm, from personal experience, that the CST C6004 works very well on a 40mm wide S18 rim and also from conversations I had with @supercurio that it also worked very well on his 60mm wide Sherman rim!

I recommended the CST C6004 to several other forum members some years back with good, solid feedback from many, so I would definitely go with that option over the K340A (although the 2 look similar, the CST performs significantly better, with virtually no downsides)

Edited December 5, 2023 by fbhb

[null]

Thank you for the info about the c6004 on the wider rim @fbhb. Good to know as they don’t always act the same, as confirmed by @RagingGrandpa regarding the K340A (thank you for the info).

I really dislike disassembling new EUCs and changing tires, so I want to make sure it rides correctly before going through the hassle. In the same spirit I’ll try to get a more durable (?) brand if possible, though it’s good to have to c6004 to fall back to if needed.

edit: It turns out the 50E EBCP only has a 40mm rim, so there is that.

Edited December 29, 2023 by null

[null]

Thinking the EBCP would have a 60mm wide rim I ordered the 80/90-14 Contiscoot as front tire so the narrower contact patch would help maneuverability.

It turns out the EBCP has a punny 40mm rim, and while the contiscoot is pleasant to ride, it is a bit narrow considering how top heavy the EBCP is. It is actually pointier than a (worn) h666 (left), see pic.

I suppose the rear tire of the same model should have a more obtuse profile?
Would it still mount on a 40mm rim?
Thank you for any info.

Edited January 2 by null

[RagingGrandpa]

2 hours ago, null said:

80/90-14 Contiscoot
rear tire of the same model

No. 
The tire can be used in a front or rear installation- it is the same tire. 
If it's different, the tire will show different dimensions (e.g. 80/80-14) or a different load rating (e.g. 35P vs 40P).

Vendors often list motorcycle tires in front+rear pairs... but that doesn't matter to us. Buy based on the size, not the position.

[RagingGrandpa]

Added some rim measurements in the OP: 

  

On 9/16/2020 at 1:30 PM, RagingGrandpa said:

Sherman-S bead width: 1.8"

 

Sherman Max bead width: 1.79" 

 

MSuper Pro bead width: 1.17"

 

[null]

On 1/2/2024 at 3:45 PM, RagingGrandpa said:

The tire can be used in a front or rear installation- it is the same tire. 

Thanks, it was listed as "front" (and the rotation arrow suggested that) but then I didn't find as equivalent "rear". The Michelin tires are listed as "both", so I wasn't sure.

Thank you for the pictures of the rim profiles, I will do the same for the Sherman OG when I change the tire soon, as well as the EBCP if I have the courage to redo it. The Shermie havent had much attention lately but I would suppose there are still be plenty in use.

[RagingGrandpa]

On 9/16/2020 at 1:30 PM, RagingGrandpa said:

CST C6501
70/90-14 34P (Tube)
70/90-14 34P (Tubeless)
80/90-14 40P (Tube)
90/90-14 46P (Tube)

Maxxis Victra S98 ST (Tubeless)
70/90-14 34S
80/90-14 40S
90/80-14 46P
90/90-14 46P
100/80-14 48P
100/90-14 57P

Added per above, based on ET dicussion.

[RagingGrandpa]

21 minutes ago, novazeus said:

90mm size michelin [city grip 2]
makes riding more difficult

Dang, I'm impressed that fit the S22 shell and fender. Does it rub?

And why "more difficult?" 

Thx