KS16X stopped balancing at 40km/h

[EUC Endurist]

hey fellow unicylists,

I want to share my experience from today. I drove grocery shopping without special protection eq (only helmet)

on the way back home my KS16X at 60% battery just stopped to balance mid ride. After a few meters I fell from the wheel, hit face first on the ground and slided nearly 3m on asphalt -.-

I definiteley did go some whips forth and back before falling, I 100% realized that the motor is out and Im pretty fast rolling...

during the fall I saw the wheel flying felt 3m above my head, it must have leveraged itself up via the pedals or anything like that.

 

I dont know why or what happened, I just now my 4 week old KS16X is broken now and I have bruises all over my body.

Has anybody of you heard from this before? I´m not confident to step up to a KS16X ever again if no one can explain what happened.

 

I appreciate all comments!

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by EUC Endurist

[James Quinn]

Maybe it's the cutoff switch (wheel spin) in the trolley handle. It can be finicky. I have disabled mine via king song app. I figured it out when my wheel stopped balancing itself randomly and at low speed.  I'm fortunate not to have crash at high speed as you have.  Get well soon! 16x is one of the most reliable wheel around without a doubt.  I don't trust the wheel spin switches at all!

[RockyTop]

19 minutes ago, James Quinn said:

Maybe it's the cutoff switch (wheel spin) in the trolley handle. It can be finicky. I have disabled mine via king song app. I figured it out when my wheel stopped balancing itself randomly and at low speed.  I'm fortunate not to have crash at high speed as you have.  Get well soon! 16x is one of the most reliable wheel around without a doubt.  I don't trust the wheel spin switches at all!

It should not be the trolley handle. It should only turn off the wheel if you are almost stopped. How many EUC riders do you have in Knox? I have been waiting for them to catch on up there. 

@EUC Endurist  Hope you recover fast. It does not quite sound like a normal cut out.  How fast would you say you were going? I have heard of several 16X cutting out at about 27 MPH but this seems different. It sounds like it tried to recover before all balance was lost. 

[James Quinn]

@RockyTop

 

I ride all the time in Knoxville  it's a fantastic place to ride. Last night I went bar hopping on the wheel. 16x made Knoxville feel small! Imagine riding from a bar at the university then wheel over to old city, over to downtown,  over to riverfront. It was fun!

In fact there's a group ride tomorrow in Townsend. 

 

https://facebook.com/events/s/townsend-group-ride/313611439651707/?ti=cl

Check it out.  I'm also am an euc.world user. I post my tours. My username is Tiequinn on euc.world. 

[mrelwood]

Sorry to hear about this incident! It destroys one’s trust for the wheel for months, or even forever. Crucial info would be the riding surface (potholes?), and whether you were accelerating at the time of the incident. And if you have been riding on wet conditions.

The lift sensors and kill switches do nothing above 1-4km/h, so it shouldn’t be that.

[Unventor]

There are a lot of details missing about the circumstances of the incident. 

As the precise at the time (I know it state in thread header).

If your are riding on flat, incline or decline surface. And if there is any bumps or pothole.

And what FW you had on it at the time.

Now there might be some explanation to what happened but if you don't have a log of the ride or any film of it, then it becomes pure guesswork.

That said any EUC can break down at anytime. That is why I have a hard time understanding why people want to go faster than 50kmh. If you get a powerline (motor/control board/battery) failure in an EUC you go down more or less instantly. In a car or on a mc you can roll it off as they don't need power to balance.

[EUC Endurist]

12 hours ago, RockyTop said:

It should not be the trolley handle. It should only turn off the wheel if you are almost stopped. How many EUC riders do you have in Knox? I have been waiting for them to catch on up there. 

@EUC Endurist  Hope you recover fast. It does not quite sound like a normal cut out.  How fast would you say you were going? I have heard of several 16X cutting out at about 27 MPH but this seems different. It sounds like it tried to recover before all balance was lost. 

no it definitely wasnt the trolley handle, i checked its function and its deactivated via the software as long as the wheel is spinning.

I was just left with some deep bruises and shoulder ache, but nothing serious. I will have trust issues if i don´t find out what was the cause.

I drove around 40 km/H and it just stopped working and balancing, jumped off before I crashed but way too fast to land safe xD

11 hours ago, James Quinn said:

@RockyTop

 

I ride all the time in Knoxville  it's a fantastic place to ride. Last night I went bar hopping on the wheel. 16x made Knoxville feel small! Imagine riding from a bar at the university then wheel over to old city, over to downtown,  over to riverfront. It was fun!

In fact there's a group ride tomorrow in Townsend. 

 

https://facebook.com/events/s/townsend-group-ride/313611439651707/?ti=cl

Check it out.  I'm also am an euc.world user. I post my tours. My username is Tiequinn on euc.world. 

I´m doing well thank you

[EUC Endurist]

5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Sorry to hear about this incident! It destroys one’s trust for the wheel for months, or even forever. Crucial info would be the riding surface (potholes?), and whether you were accelerating at the time of the incident. And if you have been riding on wet conditions.

The lift sensors and kill switches do nothing above 1-4km/h, so it shouldn’t be that.

thanks, the trust is gone when I dont find the cause. top of the line product for 2k€+ and deadly malfunctions? if this had  happened in traffic I could be easily dead or financially ruined forever, + the 2k€ are gone now as it seems

 

there were absolutely no potholes this is a very nicely done bicycle asphalt way. I rode it many times before and it was sunshine wheather, I wanted to drive home from grocery shopping

no youre right about the lift sensor i checked hat before and it worked the way you described it

[EUC Endurist]

3 hours ago, Unventor said:

There are a lot of details missing about the circumstances of the incident. 

As the precise at the time (I know it state in thread header).

If your are riding on flat, incline or decline surface. And if there is any bumps or pothole.

And what FW you had on it at the time.

Now there might be some explanation to what happened but if you don't have a log of the ride or any film of it, then it becomes pure guesswork.

That said any EUC can break down at anytime. That is why I have a hard time understanding why people want to go faster than 50kmh. If you get a powerline (motor/control board/battery) failure in an EUC you go down more or less instantly. In a car or on a mc you can roll it off as they don't need power to balance.

hey sorry I was a little shocked yesterday and just tried to collect some information before contacting the retailer..

 

Í´d say that the surface was nearly flat, maybe +-5%, absolutely no potholes, just clear asphalt

the latest one i guess FW 1.7

I have connected the KS16X to the darknessbot app, battery 65%, max power 3600W 

 

yeah that was the scary thing, no accelerating or breaking, i lost the left right balance very fast too, decided to jump off before I would crash harder

 

h

[mike_bike_kite]

Sorry to hear about your fall and glad you're OK. At 60% the tilt back limit on the 16X is very near 40kmh. You don't mention any tilt back so I'm guessing you were riding just below the threshold. If you then accelerated (or went up an incline or hit a bump or any small hole) then the wheel draws much more power which can drop the battery % down considerably pushing you well past the tilt back speed and the wheel will cut out.

The following graph comes from this thread and explains a bit about battery thresholds. It's worth reporting what firmware you have though. It's also worth stating your weight as this can make a big difference. Have you had other wheels before or did you learn on the 16X? The 16X is supposed to be fairly robust so hopefully it will be straightforward to repair. Wrist guards and helmet are probably the minimum I'll ride with.

[Tazarinho]

On 6/13/2020 at 12:01 PM, EUC Endurist said:

I definiteley did go some whips forth and back before falling, I 100% realized that the motor is out and Im pretty fast rolling...

Glad you made it through such a gnarly crash without any major injuries!

What do you mean by the above? A front/back oscillation? Because if the wheel completely stops balancing, you'll either go down forward, or backward, depending on where your center of gravity is in respect to the wheel, but you won't go back and forth, unless the wheel is at least trying to recover balance.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Tazarinho

[Skecys]

@EUC Endurist Hope you have a quick recovery!

In general you should always expect to come off the unit at some point. Wear enough protection for the speed you are going. No protection means running speed. We are riding cheap Chinese electronics (even though we pay big bucks for them) on a single wheel.

I would take apart the 16X and check for loose connections or burn marks on the motherboard. Also you can check the status in the EUC World app. I take it you did not get any beeps? Was the unit solid, no rattling or anything that felt loose?

I'm sure a totally random cut off would shatter my confidence too, hope you get back on a wheel soon.

[null]

16 minutes ago, Skecys said:

In general you should always expect to come off the unit at some point. Wear enough protection for the speed you are going.

Very much this, gear up in accordance to your physical condition and speed. You must be able to take a fall.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

2 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Sorry to hear about your fall and glad you're OK. At 60% the tilt back limit on the 16X is very near 40kmh.

That's not true.

With firmware 1.0.7 and 2.0.2 there is no throttling above around 40% Battery (= 70 volts). 

[mike_bike_kite]

14 minutes ago, buell47 said:

That's not true.

With firmware 1.0.7 and 2.0.2 there is no throttling above around 40% Battery (= 70 volts). 

Outdated then though it wasn't my diagram. I suggest you update the original thread. Do we know what firmware the OP is running?

[EUC Endurist]

2 hours ago, Tazarinho said:

Glad you made it through such a gnarly crash without any major injuries!

What do you mean by the above? A front/back oscillation? Because if the wheel completely stops balancing, you'll either go down forward, or backward, depending on where your center of gravity is in respect to the wheel, but you won't go back and forth, unless the wheel is at least trying to recover balance.

I was a bit unclear with that I see, at first the loose pedals went forward (with my body leaning in), I realized that something was very wrong and managed to get the center of my body backwards. so the pedals went backwards too. 

I realized that i am loosing left to right balance also and Immediatelly jumped from the wheel.

41 minutes ago, buell47 said:

That's not true.

With firmware 1.0.7 and 2.0.2 there is no throttling above around 40% Battery (= 70 volts). 

I thought also that above 50% I would be sure to ride 50kmh

[EUC Endurist]

1 hour ago, Skecys said:

@EUC Endurist Hope you have a quick recovery!

In general you should always expect to come off the unit at some point. Wear enough protection for the speed you are going. No protection means running speed. We are riding cheap Chinese electronics (even though we pay big bucks for them) on a single wheel.

I would take apart the 16X and check for loose connections or burn marks on the motherboard. Also you can check the status in the EUC World app. I take it you did not get any beeps? Was the unit solid, no rattling or anything that felt loose?

I'm sure a totally random cut off would shatter my confidence too, hope you get back on a wheel soon.

yeah I appreciate very much that I could experience this on my own and nothing serious happened. I will never ride again without my torso protection hand/wristguards and helmet.

 

I dont want to touch it due to the KS16X beeing mine close a month. I will contact the seller at first. Hope there will be some money going back to me if I´m honestly, even if I´d receive a new device, I would have trust issues if nobody could explain the cause to me.

[DjPanJan]

On 6/13/2020 at 12:01 PM, EUC Endurist said:

• hey fellow unicylists,
• I want to share my experience from today. I drove grocery shopping without special protection eq (only helmet)
• on the way back home my KS16X at 60% battery just stopped to balance mid ride. After a few meters I fell from the wheel, hit face first on the ground and slided nearly 3m on asphalt -.-
• I definiteley did go some whips forth and back before falling, I 100% realized that the motor is out and Im pretty fast rolling...
• during the fall I saw the wheel flying felt 3m above my head, it must have leveraged itself up via the pedals or anything like that.
•  
• I dont know why or what happened, I just now my 4 week old KS16X is broken now and I have bruises all over my body.
• Has anybody of you heard from this before? I´m not confident to step up to a KS16X ever again if no one can explain what happened.

 

I appreciate all comments!

 

I think is just you triger short overlean and you panic when you pedal drop/dip/flick and  this results to high speed voble and jump out of 16x. 

[Michael Tucker]

What was your riding weight including groceries at the time?

[EUC Endurist]

1 hour ago, null said:

Very much this, gear up in accordance to your physical condition and speed. You must be able to take a fall.

It was definitely a malfunction that MUST NOT happen. If theyre limiting the speed or power about 10% lower this problem wouldnt be there. Its careless from Kingsong if its true that my device shutoff because of a power overload. I was 90kg with full eq and 60% battery. This device was praisen on as top device to this date, including the price its very strange that this can happen.

I understand what you mean, but when you buy a car and youre randomly 1 in 10000, to you take the technical defect as it is and say "you must be able to take a crash?"

money is most likely gone and much worse shit could have happened? you must be able to take a fall is a good point, but in this case its a little bit cringy..

[EUC Endurist]

15 minutes ago, DjPanJan said:

I think is just you triger short overlean and you panic when you pedal drop/dip/flick and  this results to high speed voble and jump out of 16x. 

if i triger the short overlean what happens then?

4 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

What was your riding weight including groceries at the time?

about 90kg all together, just meat and veggies for 2

[EUC Endurist]

3 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Sorry to hear about your fall and glad you're OK. At 60% the tilt back limit on the 16X is very near 40kmh. You don't mention any tilt back so I'm guessing you were riding just below the threshold. If you then accelerated (or went up an incline or hit a bump or any small hole) then the wheel draws much more power which can drop the battery % down considerably pushing you well past the tilt back speed and the wheel will cut out.

The following graph comes from this thread and explains a bit about battery thresholds. It's worth reporting what firmware you have though. It's also worth stating your weight as this can make a big difference. Have you had other wheels before or did you learn on the 16X? The 16X is supposed to be fairly robust so hopefully it will be straightforward to repair. Wrist guards and helmet are probably the minimum I'll ride with.

hey there, I was told that this model or fw starts speed and/or power throttling at 50% 

the battery capacity today was 65%. I have the data from the darkness bot and will upload them. I weight about 80kg and all in it should have been about 90g at the accident.

the KS16X is my second wheel i drove a V5F but not very long. I have 600km on the KS16X, i cannot say that i tried to test out some aggressive riding, I have protection gear for aggressive riding -.-  btw i will never ride EUC without my full gear now, not even short tracks

 

thanks for the input, im looking forward to speak to the retailer 

 

[EUC Endurist]

I checked the Darknessbot log again (cant upload picture here?)

range: 33km

max speed 50.1

average speed 27.9

max temp 46C°

max Ampere 36.56A

max power 2906W

battery consumption 39%

[Chriull]

11 minutes ago, EUC Endurist said:

I checked the Darknessbot log again (cant upload picture here?)

11 minutes ago, EUC Endurist said:

range: 33km

max speed 50.1

average speed 27.9

max temp 46C°

max Ampere 36.56A

max power 2906W

battery consumption 39%

 

If you can get/borrow an android phone you can get logs with euc world showing inverter load (?overall system load in % of "overlean reached") and also see actual speed throttling.

Maybe darknessbot shows this too - bo idea, i have no iphone.

Btw: you have installed the bluetooth patch? Or already have some new version were this is not necessary anymore?

[EUC Endurist]

Just now, Chriull said:

 

If you can get/borrow an android phone you can get logs with euc world showing inverter load (?overall system load in % of "overlean reached") and also see actual speed throttling.

Maybe darknessbot shows this too - bo idea, i have no iphone.

Btw: you have installed the bluetooth patch? Or already have some new version were this is not necessary anymore?

no i do only have the saved track information and its limited on these on the list. the actual ride display looks a little more detailed but its not available anymore.

no bluetooth patch added I guess, KS wrote that FW updates are now possible over Darknessbot and therefore i thought thats all i need^^