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chrisjunlee

Kingsong 16X review/wheelog/journal 🐸

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Posted (edited)

== Day 10 - Thurs, 8/8/2019 ==

Personal record for daily mileage 🥳

Put on 60 miles in one go, quickcharged at 10A (20 - 90 % in ~80 minutes), then headed out for another 20 miles. 

Around mile 70, I had a technique breakthrough: I can now really tap into this motor's torque. Before, I could lean to accelerate - now I can really lean, pedal dip lean.

Imported the telemetry and did a search for max power: 2,929.79 watts! 

Not bad for a lightweight noob eh? 

image.thumb.png.400ae199b78fea879f8540f5012aa03c.png

 

Screenshot_20190809-010041_WheelLog.jpg

=== Edit/Update ==

Looked up the wheelog for the resting voltage

15% battery left at 97923 m, in other words: 15% battery left at 60.84 miles 

image.png.84524a4ca992b8459b3a24ed5366e330.png

Edited by chrisjunlee

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

2,929.79 watts with a ~20 volt sag! 

Cant see a 20 voltage sag. Maybe you mean a 30-35% battery sag (6 voltage sag from 78 to 72v)?

But 60 mi that´s awesome :thumbup:

Edited by buell47

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, buell47 said:

Cant see a 20 voltage sag. Maybe you mean a 30-35% battery sag (6 voltage sag from 78 to 72v)?

But 60 mi that´s awesome :thumbup:

Ah, I got confused by the battery level! Thank you for pointing that out, fixed!

Edited by chrisjunlee

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2 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

== Day __ ==

Personal record for daily mileage 🥳

Put on 60 miles in one go, quickcharged at 10A (20 - 90 % in ~80 minutes), then headed out for another 20 miles. 

Around mile 70, I had a technique breakthrough: I can now really tap into this motor's torque. Before, I could lean to accelerate - now I can really lean, pedal dip lean.

Imported the telemetry and did a search for max power: 2,929.79 watts! 

Not bad for a lightweight noob eh? 

image.thumb.png.400ae199b78fea879f8540f5012aa03c.png

 

Screenshot_20190809-010041_WheelLog.jpg

Thanks, I'll share on the main post of the KS16X main topic. 

You charged at 10A with the original cabling?

I know for the 18L and 18XL cables needed to be changed as they would not stand 10A.

Are cables on the 16X thicker and able to stand 10A then? It seems so. Anyone knows? Is it risky? 

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9 hours ago, Jean Dublin said:

Thanks, I'll share on the main post of the KS16X main topic. 

You charged at 10A with the original cabling?

I know for the 18L and 18XL cables needed to be changed as they would not stand 10A.

Are cables on the 16X thicker and able to stand 10A then? It seems so. Anyone knows? Is it risky? 

Updated my post with resting battery levels at 60 miles.

Connected 2 rapid chargers, 5A each. It worked great!

My underrated 16X charging guideline. Kingsong representative said 10A is fine on wiring.

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Posted (edited)

== Day 11 - Fri, 8/9/2019 ==

When I commute, I always wear safety gear. But when I want to take an extra slow leisurely ride, I intentionally leave all that behind.

Today I accompanied a week 1 rider on such a no-gear leisure ride to show the joys of slowly rolling along.

And of course something interesting happens: 

 

Edited by chrisjunlee

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Those were some suspicious looking characters. :ph34r: Interesting transition from road to bike path they chose to do.

I see you have unlocked the power of the KS16X and learned the leaning and posture required. I had a similar voyage going from the Ninebot One E+ to the MSX. My wife is now learning the MSX and coming from the Ninebot One E+ she also has discovered that the MSX requires more intent to get up to speed. She hasn't reached 30kmh yet.

So now you have these 3 wheels, Mten3, MCM5 and KS16X. How do they fit into your collection?
I need a new wheel and those 3 wheels are on my purchase list. As well as a few others. I didn't really come to terms with the Nikola though but perhaps it would require me going on a longer cruise.

Between the KS16X and the MCM5 does the MCM5 serve a purpose anymore or could you just have easily been without it? I really like my Ninebot One E+ and I would like it more if it could do 40kmh, have a stronger motor and a bigger battery. The MCM5 seems to match those requirements. I see the KS16X as a bigger wheel for longer cruises. I get around 100km range out of my MSX and would probably get a little bit more out of the 16X considering the allowed voltage depletion.

Have you done any steep hill climbing with the 16X vs MCM5? My MSX growls on hills and the limiting factor is my ability to lean/crank the wheel. In my mind it would be fun to zip up (and down) some hills. Or has the MCM5 simply become redundant now or very case specific? The pedal height between the two is extremely different as well!

I don't mind owning a bunch of wheels but I do mind redundant stuff.

Thanks for keeping these logs and for making vids! Very nice to follow and I always look forward to your updates!

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Posted (edited)
On 8/10/2019 at 2:23 AM, Mike Sacristan said:

So now you have these 3 wheels, Mten3, MCM5 and KS16X. How do they fit into your collection?
I need a new wheel and those 3 wheels are on my purchase list. As well as a few others. I didn't really come to terms with the Nikola though but perhaps it would require me going on a longer cruise.

Between the KS16X and the MCM5 does the MCM5 serve a purpose anymore or could you just have easily been without it? I really like my Ninebot One E+ and I would like it more if it could do 40kmh, have a stronger motor and a bigger battery. The MCM5 seems to match those requirements. I see the KS16X as a bigger wheel for longer cruises. I get around 100km range out of my MSX and would probably get a little bit more out of the 16X considering the allowed voltage depletion.

Have you done any steep hill climbing with the 16X vs MCM5? My MSX growls on hills and the limiting factor is my ability to lean/crank the wheel. In my mind it would be fun to zip up (and down) some hills. Or has the MCM5 simply become redundant now or very case specific? The pedal height between the two is extremely different as well!

I keep the mten3 and MCM5 at work under my desk as loaners for my co-workers - either first time learners to practice on or to use as a community wheel.

But my own use cases:

Mten3: my no-gear, no-helmet stroll around park wheel. I don't even mind dallying behind pedestrians and I certainly don't ask them to move out of the way :)

MCM5: I don't use it anymore, nor do I miss it since I've learned to appreciate the 16X (it took ~300 miles for me to get to that point though). The MCM5 excels at no-effort torque, while the 16X requires you to work to untap its power. I've heard the Nikola's power delivery is somewhere in between. I am ready to sell the MCM5 with no regrets.

As for steep hill climbing: I haven't done a side by side test, but my gut feeling is the 16X has, let's say, 80% of the MCM5's hill climbing power. It's close enough for me not care, and the 16X offers so much more with its 3" wide tire.

On 8/10/2019 at 2:23 AM, Mike Sacristan said:

I don't mind owning a bunch of wheels but I do mind redundant stuff.

Yes! Keep it simple! 

On 8/10/2019 at 2:23 AM, Mike Sacristan said:

Thanks for keeping these logs and for making vids! Very nice to follow and I always look forward to your updates!

Comments like these bring so much joy to my day :D

Edited by chrisjunlee

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Posted (edited)

== Day 13 - Sun, 8/11/2019 ==

Two nights ago, I did the USB firmware upgrade to fix the bluetooth interference issue. Been busy for the past 2 days, so didn't get a chance to ride at all until late today.

Geared up, got on, and wow, the firmware update changed everything. The wheel feel much lower - and more planted - it feels completely different - weirdly different.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Turns out I have a flat.

image.png.0c59f1bb47c5556088f3f4fab0b7a279.png

It's a slow leak, losing about 5 psi an hour. Time to slime it while I look for a replacement innertube?

Edited by chrisjunlee

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On 8/10/2019 at 11:23 AM, Mike Sacristan said:

So now you have these 3 wheels, Mten3, MCM5 and KS16X. How do they fit into your collection?
I need a new wheel and those 3 wheels are on my purchase list. As well as a few others. I didn't really come to terms with the Nikola though but perhaps it would require me going on a longer cruise.

Between the KS16X and the MCM5 does the MCM5 serve a purpose anymore or could you just have easily been without it?

 

1 hour ago, chrisjunlee said:

I keep the mten3 and MCM5 at work under my desk as loaners for my co-workers - either first time learners to practice on or to use as a community wheel.
 

MCM5: I don't use it anymore, nor do I miss it since I've learned to appreciate the 16X (it took ~300 miles for me to get to that point though). The MCM5 excels at no-effort torque, while the 16X requires you to work to untap its power. I've heard the Nikola's power delivery is somewhere in between. I am ready to sell the MCM5 with no regrets.

 

 

Sounds like what I had. I had the exact same collection (only the KS16X arrived after I sold the MCM5) and while the Mten3 and a big wheel have completely different purposes, I just never came to using the MCM5. It's a great wheel, but it sits somewhere between those, and I ended up either choosing the big one or the small one, never the middle one.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

MCM5: I don't use it anymore, nor do I miss it since I've learned to appreciate the 16X (it took ~300 miles for me to get to that point though). The MCM5 excels at no-effort torque, while the 16X requires you to work to untap its power. I've heard the Nikola's power delivery is somewhere in between. I am ready to sell the MCM5 with no regrets.

Er, I really hope this wasn't misunderstood from anything I ever told you, because with the Nikola on soft mode, I can easily smoke the 16X from deadstop, as the 16X makes you work significantly more for that same torque.

Edited by houseofjob

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Er, I really hope this wasn't misunderstood from anything I ever told you, because with the Nikola on soft mode, I can easily smoke the 16X from deadstop, as the 16X makes you work significantly more for that same torque.

I somehow derped that up hard :p Yes, that's the accurate statement :)

Edit: Actually, I was talking about no-effort torque.

In terms of no-effort torque: 16X < Nikola < MCM5 right?

Edited by chrisjunlee

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6 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

In terms of no-effort torque: 16X < Nikola < MCM5 right?

In my experience, yup.

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Posted (edited)

== Day 14 - Mon, 8/12/2019 ==

Picked up some tire sealant to see if it could fix the flat. Dropped by a local bike shop and picked up a 2 oz bottle of Stan's Notube for $5.

The sealant process:

  1. deflate tire, remove valve stem core
  2. empty 2 oz bottle into valve stem
  3. replace valve stem core and pump up tire
  4. power on and lift up to make wheel spin out

It worked! The tire is holding pressure now - absolutely delighted!

This was much easier and faster than I expected. Entire process took under 5 minutes and there was no mess at all - not a single drop spilled.

Stan's is the way to go, slime is a bit more effort. 

This could've easily been weeks of downtime and hours of work to replace the inner tube. I'm delighted how well everything worked out :D

Edited by chrisjunlee

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How come slime is more effort? It is the same process.

Also stan is intended for tubeless. Slime has tube and tubeless  (STR) version, tubeless is more potent.

P.S> Factory mten3 has some sealant inside, not sure what kind, but it seems that it was too much after I added mine. It smelled heavy of cigarettes ;)

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Posted (edited)

== Day 16 - Wed, 8/14/2019 ==

Just hit 400 miles :) ( @BleepBloopBlopcatching up to you bud~)

image.png.8eb355a63116ccee2802bf50ae1139dc.png

I've bumped up the pressure from 18 to 24 PSI to start weaning myself off that sweet pillow cushion ride. Surprisingly, the ride is still cush, more so than when I had tried 24 PSI at 100 miles: I think the tire must be broken in a bit?

Regarding the bluetooth pedal tilt usb hot fix: there is a huge downside. The bluetooth drops the first 0.5 second of audio between transmissions. 

What this means: if you're using google maps to navigate, you'll miss every navigation directive. ("____ on 4th street"). It makes navigating via speaker completely un-usable.

 

 

Edited by chrisjunlee

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3 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

I've bumped up the pressure from 18 to 24 PSI to start weaning myself off that sweet pillow cushion ride. Surprisingly, the ride is still cush, more so than when I had tried 24 PSI at 100 miles: I think the tire must be broken in a bit?

What about brake wobbles?

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I lowered the pressure slightly this morning to around 18psi (I need to find my high end pressure gauge to confirm) and it seemed to reduce speed and braking wobbles.

I'm nervous about the increased chance of punctures, but I'm starting to suspect that light riders are going to have to ride the 16x at very low pressures.

I assume that different rider weights are shifting the resonant frequency up or down, and for some of us the resonance is right within the range frequently encountered during normal riding.

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10 hours ago, Jon Stern said:

I lowered the pressure slightly this morning to around 18psi (I need to find my high end pressure gauge to confirm) and it seemed to reduce speed and braking wobbles.

I'm nervous about the increased chance of punctures, but I'm starting to suspect that light riders are going to have to ride the 16x at very low pressures.

Same here.

I wonder if the CST tire solves this problem, as it has a flat contact patch in the middle of the tire.

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Posted (edited)

== Day 17 - Thurs, 8/15/2019 ==

500 miles + perfect screenshot 🔥

Displaying Screenshot_20190815-081253_WheelLog.jpg

Wheelog stats for this ride:

image.thumb.png.9cd31b0fa9983573f743e879c20bc9f5.png

This is sorted from max to min, and oddly enough I'm nowhere close to my previous record of 2929.79W. Previously I had other values around that range as well (2929.79 and several values between 2600-2800).

The only thing that's changed this time around:

  • new firmware: bluetooth MEMS sensor interference fix
  • riding mode: medium (previous: soft)
  • higher tire pressure: 22-24 PSI (previous: 18 PSI)
  • I've forgotten how to accelerate hard? 

Would be interesting to figure out what's changed.

@houseofjob

Edited by chrisjunlee

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5 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:
  • higher tire pressure: 22-24 PSI (previous: 18 PSI)

Would be interesting to figure out what's changed.

@houseofjob

Just guessing here, but higher PSI means less rolling resistance, hence less need for the wheel to work as hard for the same speed.

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2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Just guessing here, but higher PSI means less rolling resistance, hence less need for the wheel to work as hard for the same speed.

Or maybe less PSI gave me more stability to really dig in and launch from, kind of like Gotway soft mode ;)

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1 hour ago, chrisjunlee said:

Or maybe less PSI gave me more stability to really dig in and launch from, kind of like Gotway soft mode ;)

LOL, don't think so dude :ph34r:

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