Kingsong 16X review/wheelog/journal 🐸

[Peters]

Thank you for the review and ongoing conversation. Im thinking to buy this for my first EUC. Sounds like Id be better off getting something else easier to learn on. Thank you

[chrisjunlee]

7 hours ago, Peters said:

Thank you for the review and ongoing conversation. Im thinking to buy this for my first EUC. Sounds like Id be better off getting something else easier to learn on. Thank you

Welcome to the community, gave you your first react <3!

Keep in mind, your beginner phase will only last a couple of weeks - your skills will rapidly outpace a 'beginner' wheel within a month. With that said, the 16X is an excellent starter/learner wheel due to the 3" wide tire. And as of right now, if I were to keep just one wheel, it would be the 16X. So it's the most universal be-all wheel for any skill level IMHO.

Edited September 10, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[evX_Mick]

Figured I'd share this video as it comes up a lot now witht he 18Xl and 16x being so similar in specs:

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by MickeyMicklos

[Jon Stern]

7 minutes ago, MickeyMicklos said:

Figured I'd share this video as it comes up a lot now witht he 18Xl and 16s being so similar in specs:

 

16x, not 16s!

[mrelwood]

On 9/17/2019 at 7:24 PM, MickeyMicklos said:

Figured I'd share this video as it comes up a lot now witht he 18Xl and 16s being so similar in specs:

 

What a cool looking video! ... but with very little actual content. No mention on how the riding behaviour differs. Main point was that one should own both. Not very helpful.

[Mishkin]

21 hours ago, mrelwood said:

What a cool looking video! ... but with very little actual content. No mention on how the riding behaviour differs. Main point was that one should own both. Not very helpful.

Agreed, That video came out the day before I was getting to test ride both a 16X and an 18XL and I hoped it would give me some additional insights in advance, but it didn't! That said, in many ways, there really wasn't much between them, so in some ways his recommendation isn't inaccurate. I swapped between them for half a day, and yes they absolutely have their differences but for me it came down to nuances, not massive night and day differences. I may try and make a post on my experience in a few days, but aside from all the 1st batch/FW complaints that have dominated the 16X thread, anyone that has given any constructive comparisons between the two has probably already covered anything I could.

(Edit, I picked the 16X)

Edited September 19, 2019 by Mishkin

[chrisjunlee]

I would be glad to make a side by side commentary video as I ride both - I just can't get the sound right though =/

[Jon Stern]

24 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

I would be glad to make a side by side commentary video as I ride both - I just can't get the sound right though =/

You're riding with two EUCs at once already? That's super advanced stuff!

😜

[chrisjunlee]

== Day ?? - Sat, 9/21/2019 ==

For those following this 16X wheelog, thank you .

I rarely touch the 16X since I've been riding the Nikola 100V. With that said, have some good news and bad news:

Good news: The Nikola exploded 💥.

Which means I'll be riding the 16X again.

Bad news: I don't think there's anything positive I can say about the 16X at this point.

The Inmotion v8 is to the 16X, what the 16X is to the Nikola.

As I was riding the 16X all day, I kept on thinking "this is definitely not a 30 mph wheel". 

For those new to the 16X, this is the one message I want to drive home: The Kingsong 16X is a 25 mph wheel. And that's for me, a lightweight rider. 

That's the threshold where pedal dipping (aka overleaning) becomes easy. We're not talking about subtle tilt assistance like the Gotway - we're talking about exceeding the capabilities of the wheel, teetering on the edge of faceplanting. Sure it can go 30 mph, but, well, we've already seen the overlean faceplants in the main 16X thread.

Contrast that to the Nikola 100V Plus: it is a true 35+ mph wheel. Even at 50% battery, I can cruise at 35 mph, with solid torque. 

To put it another way: there is a long stretch of my commute where I'm usually going 35 mph on the Nikola. At no point do I feel that the Nikola is having trouble balancing me.

I took the same stretch on the 16X, and had to keep it 25 and under, because anything beyond that, it felt like I was doing all the balancing.

 

 

[ir_fuel]

6 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

As I was riding the 16X all day, I kept on thinking "this is definitely not a 30 mph wheel". 

For those new to the 16X, this is the one message I want to drive home: The Kingsong 16X is a 25 mph wheel. And that's for me, a lightweight rider. 

100% agree on this. If you want to go +25 a lot, do not buy a KS16X. You are running it "out of specs" and will get in trouble at some point in time. It has no problem going 28 but (for me) the sweet spot sits at 25. Speed demons should still go to Gotway (and better know what they are doing and gear up , because falling will hurt at those speeds)

[chrisjunlee]

Got a chance to record the pedal dipping. Started a separate thread as I think this may be an issue with all Kingsongs:

[evX_Mick]

On 9/18/2019 at 8:02 PM, mrelwood said:

What a cool looking video! ... but with very little actual content. No mention on how the riding behaviour differs. Main point was that one should own both. Not very helpful.

Looking back, I do think I could have added more info. I felt I covered tons of info on the ride feel of the 16x, so in my brain it felt redundant to trhash that. But not everyone may have seen my videos ont hat wheel. If it helps anyone here:

 

The 18XL  rides like a typical 2.5" tire, but it makes you work to hit 50kph. It feels extremely stable at that speed, like a tank. You do have to ride the tiltback a bit, but you get used to it. The 18XL has that amazing range, but the turning takes a lot more effrot than the 16" wheel, which is to be expedited if you have been aorund EUCs for a while. The torque just isn't there, but again you feel really stable. Stopping takes just as much effort so be aware of that when riding aorund people and objects.

For the 16x, the tire makes it ride completely different. It has a lot of that z10 feel where it tries to push you back up when you're ina  turn. However turning feels amazing and makes you want to  carve like crazy. It's also extremely easy to get up to speed, you dont have to work for anything. The draw back to this is you won't hit 50 kph if you gun it off the line. It's doing the physics and knows that you'd blow through 50kph at full tilt so it stops you at 45kph with tiltback. Stopping is super easy if you follow my steps for stopping in my other video about being a better rider. You just have to conquer the wobble situation. LINK: 

 

 

Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

-M

 

[Cutiyo]

 

[chrisjunlee]

On 9/26/2019 at 4:48 PM, MickeyMicklos said:

<thinly veiled self promotion LINK>

12 hours ago, Cutiyo said:

<self promoting youtube link from a completely new member >

@MickeyMicklos @Cutiyo Please don't self promote in this thread - start your own. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[Cutiyo]

My apologies., just adding my two cents to the 16x review. I'll take your advise and do just that.

[chrisjunlee]

== Day ? - Sat, 9/28/2019 ==

= Prologue =

I've been doing a lot of seated riding, so I ordered the 16X seat from e-wheels, paying $85 for the express airdrop option. 

An hour later, I get an e-mail from Jason, refunding me $85 and apologizing for all the issues I've been encountering (Nikola 💥 and 16X pedal dip).

I'm confused why the order was canceled - I guess they're out of stock? Also pleasantly surprised by Kingsong picking up on my forum post and/or youtube video. Nice 🐌.

I re-read the e-mail and wow:

My reaction:

Wow. That's next level customer service and yet another reason to get your wheels from @Jason McNeil - it's like he's running a non-profit.

I arrived home last night at 993 miles + the seat waiting for me.

So naturally, I set aside today to make a special ride: 16X seat + 1000 mile

/Prologue

Not much to say but I present to you a most special treat: join me as I hit 1000 miles:

== Edit ==

Forgot to mention a scary moment on my ride back. Going downhill ~25mph (what I consider the safe threshold cruising speed), and suddenly transition into uphill. I didn't back off fast enough, and the combination of a sudden uphill + my momentum forward caused a big pedal dip. It felt like 30-35°. Luckily I was in a more neutral foot position and not leaning forward, so I was able stick my butt back and recover. That would've been a bad place to spill as well (faceplanting on uphill? oof).

Edited September 29, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[chrisjunlee]

== CX tire at 1000 miles ==

Durable🐌

[chrisjunlee]

== Day ? - Tues, 10/6/2019 ==

Upgraded to v1.07 and I regret it. Frustrated enough to make an immediate knee jerk post.

Took the wheel out for a spirited 20  mile ride - left with 55% battery spirited.

What's different?

• performance: nothing. I accelerated hard and I feel no difference.
• overleaning issue: still exists
• tiltback settings: no change from my perspective since I ride through the beeps (I have 1200 miles at this point and know the wheel well)

What's the one thing that's changed which makes me regret upgrading?

Kingsong has added a non-stop alarm beep if you charge over 5A

In other words, Kingsong has nullified the benefit of their dual charging port.

I ride a lot and for those rare sunny days like today, I ride hard and top off every 20 miles, charging at 10A. That was a saving grace feature for this underwhelming wheel.

 v1.01 without the bluetooth fix is my favorite firmware (put over 800 miles on it).

Every single update has been a degradation in performance or quality of life.

This is my impression of Kingsong thus far: they are liars. Not only do they falsely advertise, they chip away their features with each update. 

Their success relies on pandering to that risk adverse lizard brain with their non-sense 'safety' argument. It's the same as the TSA in the US.

Edited October 6, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[meepmeepmayer]

6 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Kingsong has added a non-stop alarm beep if you charge over 5A.

I'm used to remarkably baffling stuff coming out of Gotway, but what is happening with Kingsong now?

Are you sure it's a 5A limit? Not maybe because of two different chargers (fast + normal) or something else? Maybe 5A per port as a max? (grasping for straws here...)

Well, thanks for your continuing updates! Looking forward to the next infuriating-hilarious head-scratcher coming from our beloved manufacturers

[stephen]

7 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Upgraded to v1.07 and I regret it. Frustrated enough to make an immediate knee jerk post.

Took the wheel out for a spirited 20  mile ride - left with 55% battery spirited.

What's different?

• performance: nothing. I accelerated hard and I feel no difference.
• overleaning issue: still exists
• tiltback settings: no change from my perspective since I ride through the beeps (I have 1200 miles at this point and know the wheel well)

So you've missed the best part of the ride ,, the first half of the battery,,

You say "what's different " "nothing" so it wasn't that bad of an upgrade so why so mad? The 1.07 is a better ride in my opinion

8 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

What's the one thing that's changed which makes me regret upgrading? Kingsong has added a non-stop alarm beep if you charge over 5A.

And the only thing you regret why you upgraded is the charge beeps ,, I'll check this for you as i fast charge but i can't check yet as my battery is full ready for tomorrow's ride 👍😁

[chrisjunlee]

19 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I'm used to remarkably baffling stuff coming out of Gotway, but what is happening with Kingsong now?

Are you sure it's a 5A limit? Not maybe because of two different chargers (fast + normal) or something else? Maybe 5A per port as a max? (grasping for straws here...)

Well, thanks for your continuing updates! Looking forward to the next infuriating-hilarious head-scratcher coming from our beloved manufacturers

I'm using two e-wheels fast chargers (each adjustable from 1-5A). I played around with the dials.

Let (α, β) be the current from chargers α and β | α ∈ [1, 5], β ∈ [1, 5]. Total current Σ = α + β

• (5, 5): alarm
• (5, 1): alarm
• (1, 5): alarm
• (2, 2): no alarm
• (3, 2): no alarm

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

9 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

== Day ? - Tues, 10/6/2019 ==

Upgraded to v1.07 and I regret it. Frustrated enough to make an immediate knee jerk post.

Kingsong has added a non-stop alarm beep if you charge over 5A

 

9 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Are you sure it's a 5A limit? Not maybe because of two different chargers (fast + normal) or something else? Maybe 5A per port as a max?

What's the matter with you guys, you should check out this forum more often. 

The error was discussed already days ago (by me). Nothing new. 

First post on site 2 and here my the last post about this issue:

Charging wir the original King Song 2.5A fast charger and my other fast charger with 4A at the same time make no difference. So at 6.5A the Alarm is all the time. So it doesn't matter if you charge with one or two chargers, as soon as a total of more than 5.01A is applied, the alarm starts. 

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by buell47

[Seba]

9 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

I ride a lot and for those rare sunny days like today, I ride hard and top off every 20 miles, charging at 10A. That was a saving grace feature for this underwhelming wheel.

@tinawong, about a year ago you confirmed that KS-18L and XL can be charged with 10 amps of charging current. What is the max charging current in case of KS-16X?

[chrisjunlee]

== Night ? - Tues, 10/6/2019 ==

It finally happened - I crashed at speed. 

Too tired to write everything out, but I'll make this clear: this crash affirms everything I've warned about before.

• the 16X is a 25 mph wheel - anything beyond that, you are on thin ice, a tilt away from overleaning
• the Kingsong dip is not a feature as the fanboys insist - if you don't proactively recover the dip, you will overlean
• ankle flicks do indeed simulate what happens with COM bodyshift lean, with the benefit of having instant recovery (there are people that believe different motions = different effects, thus dismissing my ankle flick pedal dip demonstration)

Injury wise, I'm ok. I just wish I had my motorcycle gloves on instead of wrist guards. My backpack and my new Dainese jacket are thrashed.

I don't want to get into details, but I'll say this: this accident wouldn't have happened on the Nikola - period.

Video is uploading overnight.

[Patton250]

9 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

== Night ? - Tues, 10/6/2019 ==

It finally happened - I crashed at speed. 

Too tired to write everything out, but I'll make this clear: this crash affirms everything I've warned about before.

• the 16X is a 25 mph wheel - anything beyond that, you are on thin ice, a tilt away from overleaning
• the Kingsong dip is not a feature as the fanboys insist - if you don't proactively recover the dip, you will overlean
• ankle flicks do indeed simulate what happens with COM bodyshift lean, with the benefit of having instant recovery (there are people that believe different motions = different effects, thus dismissing my ankle flick pedal dip demonstration)

Injury wise, I'm ok. I just wish I had my motorcycle gloves on instead of wrist guards. My backpack and my new Dainese jacket are thrashed.

I don't want to get into details, but I'll say this: this accident wouldn't have happened on the Nikola - period.

Video is uploading overnight.

Well first off I’m really glad you’re OK. I cannot imagine dumping it at 25 mph. I ran mine down to 25% last night and was able to do 27 mph without any problems. I just took it really slow getting there. I’ll buy your 16X from you so long as it’s not really damaged. $300.

Have you considered offering your consulting services to Kingsing? It appears you know much more about their wheel than they do.