Mike Sacristan Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 This thread has me worried for several reasons now lol. Several people being caught in light rain, etc. My 16X in for repairs. My MSX still running strong after 6300km and it's been through hell. I ride my 16X faster more often than I do my MSX. Meaning... that my 16X accidentally gets up to 45 kmh by me just sneezing... while riding my MSX and feeling like i'm going 100000kmh I look at my stats and see I just hit 48.1kmh. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said: My 16X in for repairs. Yours too? What happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Deleon Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I just had same problems on my 16X yesterday after some rain. Waiting for support. It is not turning on any longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectriQ User Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Tadas said: I think it is interesting! At the time of the crash only 2666 W power and only 38 A current! I have had reached 4000 W on my 16x and it was fine, but it was at much lower speed than yours. This supports the theory that at high speed the wheel just lacks voltage due to high motor back EMF. If so, this wheel is quite unsafe above 40 km/h (=25 mph), which is what you've been saying. Thank you! Indeed you are providing the community a valuable service! I will personally try to never exceed 40 kmh = 25 mph on my 16x. This can be fixed by firmware update? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadRunner Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I rode mine a few days in the rain last week. Just when going to work and back, maybe 3km each way. Didn’t have any problems, yet. Anyways i think i catched a pretty good unit because my wheel is running perfectly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 On 10/7/2019 at 9:01 PM, chrisjunlee said: I wouldn't say cutout - it was an overlean. But I know what you mean So the details. == Context == First day on v1.07, and I've rode pretty zippy all day to try to see what was different about v1.07. Here's my numbers to give you an idea: Yup, at 130lbs, I'm drawing 3455 W. And at this point, I am ankle flicking regularly. Just like rolling back and forth pre-ride, or carving, it's another tool in my toolbox to get feedback from the wheel. And it's important to understand my mindset: before the crash, I was 90% confident the pedal dips were due to the under-performance of the wheel. But still, that 10% in the back of my mind, people saying the dip is a feature, that if I were to body lean for real that the wheel would just balance me right up, to have faith. That doubt has always been nagging me in the back of my mind. == Details == You can't tell from the video, but I was sitting down. Probably as soon as I entered that trail. I decided to pedal dip, but there's only one way to do that while seated. Hands on nose, center of mass shift push off. Also, going downhill means more voltage to play with. I miscalculated the amount of force and dipped past the point of no return. Ok guys before everyone gets on this 16x is not safe debate look at the above quote that are highlighted It was an over lean The pedal flick i think is a faulty wheel and not a feature and it went limp and he fell forward He was also sitting down so would of been hard to judge how forward you've lent ,, as @Mike SacristanSays you only have to sneeze and your mph as just gone up tremendously @chrisjunlee Can you set the record straight if you think it was the wheel or you 👍👍 by reading the comment you've put it doesn't look like it's the wheel , I've done some testing myself and seen others go top speed @RoberAce video and even your video riding the beeps for a long time , i think your wheel is faulty it shouldn't dip like that it's not a feature 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisjunlee Posted October 9, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, tessa25 said: I don't think warranties cover putting your wheel in the shower. Yes the average warranty wouldn't. But we're not dealing with the average warranty anymore. That's right, we're talking about a level of customer service that transcends anything we've seen in the history of support. Yes, I'm talking about... The Legendary Super Saiyan E-wheels warranty. I contacted Jason, and without hesitation: replacement motherboard and padding with express shipping. #ewheelsisawesome 6 hours ago, Tadas said: I think it is interesting! At the time of the crash only 2666 W power and only 38 A current! I have had reached 4000 W on my 16x and it was fine, but it was at much lower speed than yours. This supports the theory that at high speed the wheel just lacks voltage due to high motor back EMF. If so, this wheel is quite unsafe above 40 km/h (=25 mph), which is what you've been saying. Thank you! Indeed you are providing the community a valuable service! I will personally try to never exceed 40 kmh = 25 mph on my 16x. Wow, thank you for doing the analysis. It takes me up to an hour to pinpoint where things happened, so the effort is much appreciated. Here's a cookie 🍪. Very nice excel trick - what is that called? Edited October 9, 2019 by chrisjunlee 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said: This thread has me worried for several reasons now lol. Several people being caught in light rain, etc. My 16X in for repairs. My MSX still running strong after 6300km and it's been through hell. I ride my 16X faster more often than I do my MSX. Meaning... that my 16X accidentally gets up to 45 kmh by me just sneezing... while riding my MSX and feeling like i'm going 100000kmh I look at my stats and see I just hit 48.1kmh. Relax. You can safety ride the 16X past 40 kmh if you realize you're skating on thin ice - just be conservative. I've only hit the pedal dips 'naturally' twice: I was going 40 kmh (25 mph) on a flat bike trail that turns into a hill. The moment I start ascending at that speed, bam, a huge ~25° pedal dip. Even though I was prepared the second time, I didn't slow down enough and again, huge pedal dip. Both times I thought I was going to faceplant, but recovered. 2 hours ago, stephen said: @chrisjunlee Can you set the record straight if you think it was the wheel or you 👍👍 by reading the comment you've put it doesn't look like it's the wheel , I've done some testing myself and seen others go top speed @RoberAce video and even your video riding the beeps for a long time , i think your wheel is faulty it shouldn't dip like that it's not a feature Both: me in the sense I was pushing the limit. I did not mean to overlean - I was just trying to pedal dip. I miscalculated the force, but I would've recovered if I was ankle flicking standing up. Sitting down there's not a good way to 'flick' your COG back fast. Hence in the video I laugh: "I was asking for that one" the wheel in the sense that this is an issue with Kingsong. My wheel isn't defective - it's just Kingsong 16X and 18XL. Juicy update in the next post that supports that. Right after a tea break Edited October 9, 2019 by chrisjunlee 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisjunlee Posted October 9, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) == Juicy update 🍓 == So a day after I posted the pedal dipping video, Kingsong got wind of it. My dealer (Jason from e-wheels) contacted me to let me know Kingsong sheepishly acknowledged that it is indeed a controller issue. I didn't think much of it after that. Today: Jason let me know the new controllers are in, and it's specifically meant to address this very issue! Not sure when I'll receive it, but I'm excited Already received shipping # from Jason: 776631914099 . I'm very excited . Edited October 9, 2019 by chrisjunlee 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Custom Power-Pads Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Is it a general controller problem that affects all 16X up to a certain production date, or just an isolated problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, buell47 said: Is it a general controller problem that affects all 16X up to a certain production date, or just an isolated problem? General. I'm guessing they're going to implement the changes in the 18XL controllers as well. We'll see if it actually fixes/improves the issue first though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 33 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said: Kingsong sheepishly acknowledged that it is indeed a controller issue. You mean a new control board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 34 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said: Juicy update 🍓 == So a day after I posted the pedal dipping video, Kingsong got wind of it. My dealer (Jason from e-wheels) contacted me to let me know Kingsong sheepishly acknowledged that it is indeed a controller issue. Do you think some of the falls people had are down to the controller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Custom Power-Pads Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said: General. I'm guessing they're going to implement the changes in the 18XL controllers as well. We'll see if it actually fixes/improves the issue first though. So a problem that can be fixed by firmware? You just need the new controller board because of the shower, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisjunlee Posted October 9, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, buell47 said: So a problem that can be fixed by firmware? You just need the new controller board because of the shower, right? Higher speed = higher back EMF = less voltage to balance you. That cannot be fixed by firmware. That is a fundamental hardware issue around power delivery. 1 hour ago, stephen said: Do you think some of the falls people had are down to the controller? You can always dip if you go fast enough. The best we improve on, is raising the threshold for dipping. Currently, that's 25mph for my weight of 130lbs. If this new controller does indeed raise the pedal dipping threshold, then yes, the "cut-outs" people have been experiencing would not have happened at the speed they were going at. Please read that carefully to understand the nuanced answer In contrast, I have not been able to dip the Nikola 100V, even at 35mph. That is why I firmly believe the Nikola is a vastly safer wheel. There are going to be downsides though. I don't know enough about how these controllers work, but I'm guessing significant capacitor upgrade or some magic boost circuit. That can mean a reduction in range. Edited October 9, 2019 by chrisjunlee 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said: You can always dip if you go fast enough. The best we can improve is raising the threshold for dipping. Currently, that's 25mph for my weight of 130lbs Lol I'm 200lbs before i gear up and had no problems and anyone else seen this issue I'm still like🤔🤔 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post meepmeepmayer Posted October 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 38 minutes ago, stephen said: You mean a new control board? Sounds like it. @chrisjunlee Please make detailed photos of the new board before you put it in the wheel. Maybe we can see a difference to the old one. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectriQ User Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Sounds like it. @chrisjunlee Please make detailed photos of the new board before you put it in the wheel. Maybe we can see a difference to the old one. Teoreticaly the actual mainboard is V 1.1, next must be V1.2 or more. This is a picture from ecodrift.ru They should replace all mainboards. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, chrisjunlee said: == Juicy update 🍓 == So a day after I posted the pedal dipping video, Kingsong got wind of it. My dealer (Jason from e-wheels) contacted me to let me know Kingsong sheepishly acknowledged that it is indeed a controller issue. I didn't think much of it after that. Today: Jason let me know the new controllers are in, and it's specifically meant to address this very issue! Not sure when I'll receive it, but I'm excited Already received shipping # from Jason: 776631914099 . I'm very excited . You mean it's a hardware issue and not software Too bad for everyone else but I'm glad you'll be running with the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisjunlee Posted October 9, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 17 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: You mean it's a hardware issue and not software Too bad for everyone else but I'm glad you'll be running with the best Update: Jason mentioned this isn't a universal problem for the 16X - it's just with mine. I would interpret that as there were a couple of bad batches? I guess it's similar to the bluetooth tilt interference issue - not everyone is seeing it. Regardless, we'll see if anything changed on the new board. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectriQ User Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 18 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said: Update: Jason mentioned this isn't a universal problem for the 16X - it's just with mine. I would interpret that as there were a couple of bad batches? I guess it's similar to the bluetooth tilt interference issue - not everyone is seeing it. Regardless, we'll see if anything changed on the new board. Production date of your wheel please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Custom Power-Pads Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 @chrisjunlee But your range is okay as always? Not that you drive around with just one battery like @Mike Sacristan? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 45 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said: Update: Jason mentioned this isn't a universal problem for the 16X - it's just with mine. Interesting development. This could explain those few over leans that caused Kingsong to throttle early on 1.06 and why some riders are totally happy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoKnvl Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 So does that mean, the juicy update isn't a juicy update? That it's something faulty with your wheel as @stephen has been thinking all this time? Any more details on how widespread this is? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisjunlee Posted October 9, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, UniVehje said: Interesting development. This could explain those few over leans that caused Kingsong to throttle early on 1.06 and why some riders are totally happy. There's are 3 possibilities: optimistic: I have a defective wheel - aka, my case is an outlier for the 16X. Not likely since with over 900 miles, everything else works fine and there are other people that have been able to pedal dip (such as @redfoxdude @BleepBloopBlop). semi-optimistic: couple of bad batches and/or there are different control boards. cynical: this is universal, affecting all v1.0 16X control boards, but Kingsong is understating this to protect sales + dealing with the expensive warranty process. In my experience working in mega corporations, the textbook play is to admit as little as possible to limit liability and cost. In other words, even if case #3 is true, Kingsong will tell us #2. On the other hand, I do understand it from the corporate side as well: the average user will not take the time to read and understand the nuances of this issue - so why have them panic? Also, perhaps this won't affect the typical rider. People like @Patton250 that average 15 mph, with gentle acceleration - it makes no difference. I really wish we had more user data to draw from and analyse. Edited October 9, 2019 by chrisjunlee 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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