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chrisjunlee

Kingsong 16X review/wheelog/journal 🐸

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13 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

The only thing that's changed this time around:

  • new firmware: bluetooth MEMS sensor interference fix
  • riding mode: medium (previous: soft)
  • higher tire pressure: 22-24 PSI (previous: 18 PSI)
  • I've forgotten how to accelerate hard? 

Would be interesting to figure out what's changed.

Didn’t you just...? Nevermind. ;)

 

On the medium riding mode the wheel doesn’t have as much catching up to do than with the soft one. If you accelerate hard, I can imagine the difference to be notable.

That said, not all soft modes are created equal, and I’m only assuming that the modes on the 16X behave somewhat like on the 18XL and 16S.

Low pressures absolutely require a lot more effort from the wheel as well. I’ve found that for some reason 30psi requires more effort from me also to accelerate and to keep up a travel speed, than my standard 38psi.

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== Day 20 - Sun, 8/18/2019 ==

Quick update: went out for a midnight ride, and somehow managed to hit a new power record: 3,070 Watts!!!

image.thumb.png.814ba69ab21c4e0f2b7f5508d7497aa6.png

The crazy part? This was still early in my ride with a fresh charge - I had 100% battery level just 16 seconds prior!

image.thumb.png.87a7f622c20090f4adbe7efbd72017ac.png

If the GPS coordinates are correct, it happened during a slight uphill stretch.

image.thumb.png.9082f76e1dbab07d3b034db0b1ddcf26.png

Firmware: v1.01

Tire pressure: 22 PSI

Bodyweight: 137 lbs + 5 lbs of gear

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This is normal and why I think the Gotway alarms is smart.

Basically the heavy current draw will sag voltage (will be shown as bat % drop). In gotway speed alarm depends on battery, so at any given combination rider/ condition/ battery the sag will be different and it will always give fair warning - any more at this conditions and faceplant....

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1 hour ago, chrisjunlee said:

== Day 20 - Sun, 8/18/2019 ==

Quick update: went out for a midnight ride, and somehow managed to hit a new power record: 3,070 Watts!!!

image.thumb.png.814ba69ab21c4e0f2b7f5508d7497aa6.png

Bodyweight: 137 lbs + 5 lbs of gear

At 39 km/h = 10.8 m/s it only takes 284 N of force to translate to 3070 W of power. (Power = speed * force).

Heavy riders really need to go slower, a rider of 290 lb = 131 kg weight would have already overpowered the wheel.

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Whoa, surprised I didn't see you. Just got back to Eastlake, but went past there within last few hours. Took the week off work, having fun not needing to wake up a certain time tomorrow! 😋

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2 hours ago, Tadas said:

At 39 km/h = 10.8 m/s it only takes 284 N of force to translate to 3070 W of power. (Power = speed * force).

Heavy riders really need to go slower, a rider of 290 lb = 131 kg weight would have already overpowered the wheel.

How did you calculate this?

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6 hours ago, LucasD said:

This is normal and why I think the Gotway alarms is smart.

Basically the heavy current draw will sag voltage (will be shown as bat % drop). In gotway speed alarm depends on battery, so at any given combination rider/ condition/ battery the sag will be different and it will always give fair warning - any more at this conditions and faceplant....

I thought Kingsong's alarms are conservative even after factoring in Gotway's voltage based alerts?

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13 hours ago, LucasD said:

This is normal and why I think the Gotway alarms is smart.

Basically the heavy current draw will sag voltage (will be shown as bat % drop). In gotway speed alarm depends on battery, so at any given combination rider/ condition/ battery the sag will be different and it will always give fair warning - any more at this conditions and faceplant....

Gotway wheels have three alarms, and the first two are always just tied to their pre-set speeds (non-adjustable). The third one is also speed based, but the limiting speed comes down a bit with battery. For 84V MSX it was I think 53km/h for a full battery and 45km/h for 10% battery. I haven’t tried, but I’m pretty sure that for a 200lbs rider like myself, even the MSX isn’t awfully hard to overlean at 10% battery way below the 45km/h.

 

12 hours ago, Tadas said:

Heavy riders really need to go slower, a rider of 290 lb = 131 kg weight would have already overpowered the wheel.

Absolutely, a 290lbs rider must ride very differently at all battery levels. But @chrisjunlee weighs less than half that. The difference is huge.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Gotway wheels have three alarms, and the first two are always just tied to their pre-set speeds (non-adjustable). The third one is also speed based, but the limiting speed comes down a bit with battery. For 84V MSX it was I think 53km/h for a full battery and 45km/h for 10% battery. I haven’t tried, but I’m pretty sure that for a 200lbs rider like myself, even the MSX isn’t awfully hard to overlean at 10% battery way below the 45km/h.

 

Absolutely, a 290lbs rider must ride very differently at all battery levels. But @chrisjunlee weighs less than half that. The difference is huge.

Read my post again, if you ride MSX at 50% battery and accelerate hard uphill, the battery will drop to 10% and will turn one the third alarm.

 

But on the other hand I think the wheels in general don't consider torque, but it would more similar to overlean...

Edited by LucasD

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19 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

How did you calculate this?

39 km/h = 39000 m/h * (1 hour / 3600 s) = 10.8 m/s

Wheel was showing 3070 W of power. At speed 10.8 m/s it was exerting force: 3070 W / (10.8 m/s) = 284 N. That's just 28 kg of force, not that much! But already the power is so huge due to high speed.

Assuming a twice heaver rider would need twice bigger balancing force, at the same speed the wheel would need double the power (6 kW!)! Or double of the logged amps. 82 A current total would be 14 A per cell, maybe still possible, but I wouldn't want to risk that.

Power = speed * force and all current wheels can be overpowered at high speed.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Tadas said:

39 km/h = 39000 m/h * (1 hour / 3600 s) = 10.8 m/s

Wheel was showing 3070 W of power. At speed 10.8 m/s it was exerting force: 3070 W / (10.8 m/s) = 284 N. That's just 28 kg of force, not that much! But already the power is so huge due to high speed.

Assuming a twice heaver rider would need twice bigger balancing force, at the same speed the wheel would need double the power (6 kW!)! Or double of the logged amps. 82 A current total would be 14 A per cell, maybe still possible, but I wouldn't want to risk that.

Power = speed * force and all current wheels can be overpowered at high speed.

Hmm, I'm rusty on my kinematics, so I don't recall every breaking down a problem like that.

The math does work out. Watts = joules/sec = force * distance/sec = force * velocity. 

And to be clear, 284 N is the horizontal force to keep the system going at that speed. The 28 kg weight is a vertical component, and it only comes into play via friction.

@Jon Stern@Benphysicsdouble check my logic please.

Edited by chrisjunlee

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12 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

And to be clear, 284 N is the horizontal force to keep the system going at that speed. The 28 kg weight is a vertical component, and it only comes into play via friction.

Kg is not a unit of force, but for most it's easier to understand 28 kg force much better than 280 N of force.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, LucasD said:

Read my post again, if you ride MSX at 50% battery and accelerate hard uphill, the battery will drop to 10% and will turn one the third alarm.

Ah yes, it does play an alarm at that situation, but it’s the low battery alarm. The ”third alarm” is a different one, and it is played purely based on speed. (And can’t be turned off like the first two speed based alarms.)

But there is no alarm to announce excessive power usage, so if there is a good amount of charge in the battery, the wheel can be overleaned without a single alarm playing.

Edited by mrelwood

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Hi! Just read your entire journal. Congrats on hitting 1000km!

Very grateful for your public journey with the 16x. I just put in my eWheels deposit for one.

Is the Bluetooth audio cutoff still happening? I was really hoping to use GPS directions for my rides.

Any updates/changes since your milestone?

Thanks,

-Nye

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, nyeceratops said:

Hi! Just read your entire journal. Congrats on hitting 1000km!

Very grateful for your public journey with the 16x. I just put in my eWheels deposit for one.

Is the Bluetooth audio cutoff still happening? I was really hoping to use GPS directions for my rides.

Any updates/changes since your milestone?

Thanks,

-Nye

Gave you your first react, welcome to the forums!

The bluetooth cutout is still occuring - I just play music if I need to navigate. This keeps the bluetooth stream on and steady.

I haven't been riding the 16X as much since I just got the Nikola 100V+ in, and I want to give it a fair 300 mile evaluation as soon as possible (at 120 miles now). It's definitely helped me appreciate the finer points of the 16X though :).

In the meantime, you can check out my Nikola 100V+ wheelog - I contrast it to the 16X at some points.

Edited by chrisjunlee

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Had my first go on the 16x today ! I rode it 300meters the returned it swiftly to its owner . I have an MSX and have also ridden the ks18xl and the v10f  all  of these 3 wheels behaved the same but the ks16x wanted to stay upright very much like the z10 . Not a fan

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1 hour ago, Wonderwebb said:

Had my first go on the 16x today ! I rode it 300meters the returned it swiftly to its owner . I have an MSX and have also ridden the ks18xl and the v10f  all  of these 3 wheels behaved the same but the ks16x wanted to stay upright very much like the z10 . Not a fan

Noooooo! :efee612b4b:

I'm also an MSX owner. I have 5000km on my MSX.
Riding a 16X is the reverse of riding an MSX. Turning is done in a different way and it has entirely different leverage points.
Steering the 16X at speed is done by dragging the wheel left to right under you. It's a crazy feeling and it's a very nimble wheel once you get the hang of it. It flows, dances and carves.

Anyway... cool that you got to try it at least! My wife felt the same when she tried it. The 18XL was love at first try for her... but the 16X... no.

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9 hours ago, Wonderwebb said:

but the ks16x wanted to stay upright very much like the z10 . Not a fan

One of the reasons i actually bought the ks16x .i have a msx and z10 so i think the 16x will be great 👍 looking forward to leaning the 16x around corners

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22 hours ago, stephen said:

One of the reasons i actually bought the ks16x .i have a msx and z10 so i think the 16x will be great 👍 looking forward to leaning the 16x around corners

But you're keeping the Z10 right! :huh:

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2 hours ago, Retrovertigo said:

But you're keeping the Z10 right! :huh:

Ofc i am it's unique, i don't think I'll ever sell my Z10 😍 love it

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3 hours ago, stephen said:

Ofc i am it's unique, i don't think I'll ever sell my Z10 😍 love it

I currently own the z10, after 3400km the battery has a problem with unbalancing (possibly a faulty cell) and I can't rely on it anymore. Just bought the 16x. Hope I can find a fix for the ninebot.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

@chrisjunlee How many miles do you have on the Nikola now?

As of now:

Displaying Screenshot_20190828-232201_WheelLog.jpg

Edited by chrisjunlee

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