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chrisjunlee

Kingsong 16X review/wheelog/journal 🐸

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2 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

braking wobbles are due to bent legs.  if you get the wobbles, just think, straighten your legs, lock them out.  wobbles then goes away. 

In addition to that, it's probably more due to my asymmetrical stance. I ride left foot biased forward, right foot biased backwards.

I don't mind the braking wobble anymore since heel pump braking will be my go to. It's just dramatically that much more effective than linear braking. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

So let's say you're carving hard to the right. Your left foot would be planted?

Yes

7 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

But also, your center mass is to the left (on outside of turn)?!

Center of mass, regardless of the turn direction, should always be centered over the center of mass of the turn-angling-wheel.

Because you load the outer turn heel, you lean in counterbalance on the inner turn leg on front pedal, becoming more of a full tip-toe the more you increase that inner pedal pressure.

Because all of this is with the wheel body on a turning angle, I think this puts you in better position to leverage your bodyweight's force of gravity falling down as the "lean force" by providing stability, and the pressing of the inner pedal is aided by the wheel+rider's natural inclination to fall over in the turn-side direction, but your outer heel plant is the anchor that allows you to control the rate at which you fall for this acceleration.

(I can't find a proper video, but imagine one of those old early 20th century black & white Charlie Chaplin -esque vaudeville type routines, where they step on a chair with one foot on the tall of the backrest, and one foot on the front of the seat, then slowly fall over in a controlled manner, because their weight is counter-balanced evenly across how they are stepping on the chair..... kinda like that idea)

(and a nice byproduct of all this, is that the singular leaning-over nature of that fall helps stabilize high speed wobbling)

Edited by houseofjob

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2 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

That's what I thought too, but it doesn't change a thing.

You need to consciously lock out your legs.  The wobbles will stop.  

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1 hour ago, eddiemoy said:

You need to consciously lock out your legs.  The wobbles will stop.  

As I said. That is what I did. Knees completely locked and straight. It didn't calm it down. Crouching did make it worse though :D 

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Each day I ride I get better control of this wheel. The tip of watching the angle of my feet helped. I have a natural tendency to be slightly duck-footed, which doesn't appear to matter that much on a light wheel like the V8, but can translate into wobbles on a 55lb wheel.  Better footing appears to be much more important on the heavier wheels.

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3 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

As I said. That is what I did. Knees completely locked and straight. It didn't calm it down. Crouching did make it worse though :D 

But do it on a turn/"carve" angle, and don't do it with both feet at the same time, alternate.

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10 hours ago, houseofjob said:

@chrisjunlee I used to do inner heel plant too, as that came more natural, but ultimately, it's not a stable as planting outer heel.

These days at the start of a ride, I tell myself to plant the outer heel, then gradually press on the inner turn pedal, but for a deeper lean, I go toes up so my body is not in a position for automatic faceplant. The whole feeling is that you hook and load the majority of your bodyweight over that hip and on the outer heel, feeling almost like you're going to one-leg it (leg may kiss the shell side, but doesn't lean), then with that stabilization in place, you apply a more controlled pressure with the other inner foot/toe.

Any wobbles usually means I've failed to do the above, along with operating the wheel leaning on a turn angle, not upright. So at the onset of a wobble, I immediately coach myself in my head back to this, and this always resolves any traditional speed wobbles (again, not the 16X bobbling issue).

I’m tying to process this now and still not picturing it @_@ Any sub-movements to work up to it or discover it?

”Toes up” means on heel?

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2 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

@eddiemoyyeah yeah, I know your face is like

Image result for excuse me meme

Glad you found a good tire pressure to enjoy the wheel.  Lots of people loving the Nikola too.  It’s all good.  How much is it worth now?  LOL

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8 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

”Toes up” means on heel?

Crap that meant to say "tip-toes".

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13 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

As I said. That is what I did. Knees completely locked and straight. It didn't calm it down. Crouching did make it worse though :D 

 Watch some Cooch on youtube

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

Glad you found a good tire pressure to enjoy the wheel.  Lots of people loving the Nikola too.  It’s all good.  How much is it worth now?  LOL

$1500+ XD

2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Crap that meant to say "tip-toes".

I'm out late last night just awkwardly trying to I-don't-know-how-do-you-even-toe-up carve 😆.

So tip toe on planted foot or inner foot?

 

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3 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

I'm out late last night just awkwardly trying to I-don't-know-how-do-you-even-toe-up carve 😆.

So tip toe on planted foot or inner foot?

Heel up carve, not toe up (again, mistake in writing)

So:

  1. lean the wheel body gradually into a curve/turn
  2. plant weight on the heel of the outer turn leg, leg is straight and feels like it's reaching back somewhat
  3. once stabilized like that, apply pressure on the inner bent turn leg, but gradually straighten that leg as you apply more pressure, and gradually going to tip-toes for more pressure (instead of leaning your torso/whole body forward).

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9 hours ago, Gaz Bon said:

 Watch some Cooch on youtube

 

 

 

What does work is clamping the euc with my legs.

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54 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

What does work is clamping the euc with my legs.

That will pass 

I think there must be like 7 steps of passage going from beginner to EUC Zen master 

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2 minutes ago, Gaz Bon said:

That will pass 

I think there must be like 7 steps of passage going from beginner to EUC Zen master 

lol. There are people here that ride more in one month than I do in an entire year :D 

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On 8/6/2019 at 4:02 PM, chrisjunlee said:

Yes, my happy price point has gone up to $1200 :D.

On another note, I do feel slight radial oscillations at speed, in soft mode. It feels like the wheel is fighting itself back and forth. When going ~22mph, I would say it's a low 5 hertz oscillation. It's a bit disconcerting if I focus on it, but at this point I've learned to just trust the wheel.

i just read that ks says the bluetooth module maybe causing radio frequency interference with mainboard. they are going to try changing frequency via fw to see if they can fix that.

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5 minutes ago, ray rokni said:

i just read that ks says the bluetooth module maybe causing radio frequency interference with mainboard. they are going to try changing frequency via fw to see if they can fix that.

I'm slow chuckling while sighing. 

The things we take for granted in the US, like consumer goods requiring an FCC ID

I'm hoping it's not an interference issue - if it is, this is going to require a motherboard redesign or at least RF shielding the controller. 

The obvious firmware approach is to limit the RF bands - but bluetooth is FHSS (Frequency-hopping spread spectrum) sighs.

I'm really hoping this is just another rumor, otherwise, Kingsong has admitted we can build a 16X jammer.

 

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42 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

I'm slow chuckling while sighing. 

The things we take for granted in the US, like consumer goods requiring an FCC ID

I'm hoping it's not an interference issue - if it is, this is going to require a motherboard redesign or at least RF shielding the controller. 

The obvious firmware approach is to limit the RF bands - but bluetooth is FHSS (Frequency-hopping spread spectrum) sighs.

I'm really hoping this is just another rumor, otherwise, Kingsong has admitted we can build a 16X jammer.

 

It's quite possible to have internal component interference without failing FCC, which deals with external EMI.

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On 8/7/2019 at 10:20 AM, chrisjunlee said:

== Day 8 - Tues, 8/6/2019 ==

Ok, it's official. I like this wheel more than my MCM5.  

Things I love about this wheel that was lacking in the MCM5:

  • the 3" wide tire is a surface condition normalizer - it evens out road imperfections for a consistent feel. Think of taking a picture of a road, then applying a smoothing/blurring filter - that's what the tire width does.
  • the top speed gives me a comfortable buffer to play around in my preferred speed of 25mph. On the MCM5, 25 mph meant having a 2mph buffer. On the 16X, it's a 6mph buffer - well within my comfort zone.

There is one very crucial aspect of enjoying this particular wheel: the stock tire is very sensitive to tire pressure. Much more so than my mten3 or MCM5.

I can't stress that enough. To give you an idea, for my weight of 140lbs:

  • 20 psi - 30 psi: it is too hard - doesn't feel planted. I dislike this wheel.
  • 19 psi: it starts feeling bouncy
  • 18 psi: feels amazing. Absolutely planted, and the road feels smoothed out by the 3" wide. This is also the most stable at speed, and it's so relaxing to ride. You point, accelerate, and it tracks a straight line all the way to 22+ mph without any wobbles. It feels like you're just warping forward. This is the closest feeling I get to my soft MCM5 28 PSI experience.

I experience that entire range, just within a 2 PSI delta. Yes, it's bizarre. So especially with this tire, play around with the pressure. I picked up a high accuracy gauge, and it's been helping a lot to dial these pressures in.

=== addendum ==

Notable moments from today:

  • Coworker #1, 2nd day on my mten3, and he's having a blast whizzing around in the garage. This is becoming the highlight of his summer. He asked if he could take it home, to which I immediately replied: "of course! - keep it slow though" 
  • Coworker #2 got to take the 16X for a spin. I bumped up the tire pressure to 28 PSI - he said it feels lighter and more responsive than his 18XL. Afterwards, I rode it home, and I was not enjoying it at all at that pressure. Too many wobbles, felt everything in the road, etc.
  • Saw another coworker bicycling uphill - I roll up next to him, munching on a bag of flaming hot cheetos and mountain dew: "sup?". So many shades of wtf flashed before his eyes 🤣 
  • Going out for midnight downtown rides are a treat
  • I smoked a bimmer! 

And how is acceleration compared to mcm and mten3?

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18 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

The things we take for granted in the US, like consumer goods requiring an FCC ID

 

Hi there, it's me again :D 

I can't check it anymore since I removed the stickers under the pedals, but I think it has FCC certification. It does have CE certification which should be equivalent, considering the fact that "emitting devices" ( = bluetooth) also require more stringent tests to be CE compliant.

Unless they just slapped the logos on there and called it a day. You never know :D 

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38 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Hi there, it's me again :D 

I can't check it anymore since I removed the stickers under the pedals, but I think it has FCC certification. It does have CE certification which should be equivalent, considering the fact that "emitting devices" ( = bluetooth) also require more stringent tests to be CE compliant.

Unless they just slapped the logos on there and called it a day. You never know :D 

Hello ole friend ;)

I don't trust CE stickers on China goods. There's a good reason: https://f2labs.com/technotes/2016/07/18/ce-marking-and-the-china-export-mark/

CE trolling 😂

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There is actually a CE certificate included. For what it's worth :D 

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Data point for range test: at 60 miles I'm about 19%. This was with aggressive riding across a windy freeway. Bodyweight: 140lbs.

Forgot to take a screenshot of the wheel rested, but here's the wheel under load (yes, the voltage sag is 15+%):

Screenshot_20190808-220045_WheelLog.thumb.jpg.a4fc309e2763b8023eb218e64ad017b5.jpg

 

Voltage sag going up  a hill:

2067683118_Screenshot_20190808-220303_WheelLog(2).thumb.jpg.f53ed419de06dbd58f53b79dbfddcd92.jpg

 

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