Kingsong 16X review/wheelog/journal 🐸

[stephen]

8 minutes ago, TomOnWheels said:

Awesome video ! I fell asleep at the end of your video... don't know why, maybe the music... anyway, thanks ! :-)

Are you joking,,,, it's a 3 minute video with a crash in it 😁

[Patton250]

What does “ankle flick” mean?

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, stephen said:

Are you joking,,,, it's a 3 minute video with a crash in it 😁

Epic video. He did great on the crash too. 

[Mishkin]

2 hours ago, Patton250 said:

What does “ankle flick” mean?

 

[TomOnWheels]

11 hours ago, stephen said:

Are you joking,,,, it's a 3 minute video with a crash in it 😁

You got it, I was joking ! Cool video ! It's funny to see KS16X still playing the music after the crash ! And the rider reaction ! He just continue on his way despite it all ! :-o

[ElectriQ User]

@chrisjunlee, glad you are in one piece!

Did you manage to fix it or it is still dead?

 

 

[ir_fuel]

12 hours ago, stephen said:

My old motorbike on a track day .i can't say i leaned it over as far as you though 😬

Joining the club

 

and let's add some rain to it

 

 

 

[stephen]

9 minutes ago, stephen said:

12 hours ago, stephen said:

My old motorbike on a track day .i can't say i leaned it over as far as you though 😬

Joining the club

 

and let's add some rain to it

13 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

do miss my trackdays:

When you look at then 4 picture's altogether they look good 😁 nice one guys,,

2 wheels that's very dangerous that's why i went to one 🙁😂😂

[Patton250]

8 hours ago, Mishkin said:

 

thanks man 
 

So what is the purpose of this ankle flicking? It seems like it’s probably not that great for the wheel.

[Tadas]

On 10/7/2019 at 12:27 PM, chrisjunlee said:

== Night ? - Tues, 10/6/2019 ==

It finally happened - I crashed at speed.

 

Could you please share your wheellog log around the crash?

Edited October 8, 2019 by Tadas

[Legend27]

@chrisjunlee wow.... you are really damn unlucky. I feel really sorry for you... First the Nikola, then 16x... Do you have any other wheels to ride?

[chrisjunlee]

10 hours ago, Tadas said:

Could you please share your wheellog log around the crash?

Nothing interesting, my 3500 W power draws were from earlier in the day. I think it's this one: 2019_10_06_12_45_26.csv

2 hours ago, Legend27 said:

@chrisjunlee wow.... you are really damn unlucky. I feel really sorry for you... First the Nikola, then 16x... Do you have any other wheels to ride?

The MCM5 - it was rather painful commuting 15 miles home last night.

11 hours ago, Patton250 said:

So what is the purpose of this ankle flicking? It seems like it’s probably not that great for the wheel.

The ankle flick lets me apply an impulse of lean pressure and recover instantly, vs body weight leaning.

Try this exercise standing. Upright lean forward to apply pressure on your toes, then try leaning back to neutral. That takes a solid second or two - in that time you would've overleaned.

Now try with your ankles to apply an impulse - you're practically back to neutral by the time you've applied the pressure.

Why would I want to do this? Think of it as a safe look-ahead to test the waters. If the wheel is giving out from ankle flick, I know I'm near the limit, thus I won't lean accelerate. If the wheel is still solid, I know I'm safe to lean accelerate hard. It's just another tool in my toolbox.

But but but, there's beeps to warn you! Well, beeps are slow and they don't give you that immediate feel feedback. I ankle flick and recover before the beeps kick in - not sure if it's in the video, but the beeps kick in after I've dipped and recovered.

Fair warning: since you are applying an impulse force, it's all or nothing, as in, you need to use your discretion to calculate the force beforehand. Always start with small impulse, then scale up. In my video, you'll see it takes me a bunch of tries to get it to pedal dip - I'm gradually increasing the test force.

It's a very useful tool, and I'm surprised and proud to contribute this new tool to the community

@Marty Backe

Edited October 8, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[Patton250]

31 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Nothing interesting, my 3500 W power draws were from earlier in the day. I think it's this one: 2019_10_06_12_45_26.csv

The MCM5 - it was rather painful commuting 15 miles home last night.

The ankle flick lets me apply an impulse of lean pressure and recover instantly, vs body weight leaning.

Try this exercise standing. Upright lean forward to apply pressure on your toes, then try leaning back to neutral. That takes a solid second or two - in that time you would've overleaned.

Now try with your ankles to apply an impulse - you're practically back to neutral by the time you've applied the pressure.

Why would I want to do this? Think of it as a safe look-ahead to test the waters. If the wheel is giving out from ankle flick, I know I'm near the limit, thus I won't lean accelerate. If the wheel is still solid, I know I'm safe to lean accelerate hard. It's just another tool in my toolbox.

But but but, there's beeps to warn you! Well, beeps are slow and they don't give you that immediate feel feedback. I ankle flick and recover before the beeps kick in - not sure if it's in the video, but the beeps kick in after I've dipped and recovered.

Fair warning: since you are applying an impulse force, it's all or nothing, as in, you need to use your discretion to calculate the force beforehand. Always start with small impulse, then scale up. In my video, you'll see it takes me a bunch of tries to get it to pedal dip - I'm gradually increasing the test force.

It's a very useful tool, and I'm surprised and proud to contribute this new tool to the community

@Marty Backe

I’m glad that are you guys like to test these things to the limit but I’m just not gonna do that. I’m having fun and taking it easy. We know it’s not safe to push the wheel at certain points yet some of you still do just to see how far you can push it. I guess I just don’t understand why. It’s not important to understand why though. If you have fun doing it and you don’t mind face planting once in a while then have at it. Stay safe. 

[chrisjunlee]

2 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

I’m glad that are you guys like to test these things to the limit but I’m just not gonna do that. I’m having fun and taking it easy. We know it’s not safe to push the wheel at certain points yet some of you still do just to see how far you can push it. I guess I just don’t understand why. It’s not important to understand why though. If you have fun doing it and you don’t mind face planting once in a while then have at it. Stay safe. 

Because science! Aka, curiosity faceplanted the cat.

[Patton250]

30 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Because science! Aka, curiosity faceplanted the cat.

You do know their engineers pretty much know what the wheel can and can’t do right? That’s what the beeps are for. I’m sure they build in a little cushion for safety. You mean to expose that cushion. :-) Call it for science or call it for curiosity but either way it’s at your own peril as you found out. Be safe brother.

[chrisjunlee]

== Mon, 10/7/2019 ==

Bad news - I killed my 16X.

Took a mid-day wok break to run an errand, and since I've already dropped this wheel, rode it with the mentality of a beater. At one point, decided to zip through grass, cause why not.

Well, that grass patch was lump city and apparently more Canadian Geese Poop™ than grass. Let's just say I rode back to work with an impressively protective coating of Geese.  

I drop by the shower, make sure ports are closed, and rinse it off - you see where this is going. 

Towel dry it off and ride it back to my desk. 10 minutes later, the front panel goes out - the light turns off and the power button is out. 10 more minutes later, the wheel makes a single beep, and it's no longer balancing.

Keep in mind I've done this dozens of times before - so I'm baffled. I look all around and do not see any points of ingress. The ports are plugged in and dry. 

I spend the next 2 hours trying to open the wheel to blow dry it out, and find out a bit too late I don't have deep enough drivers.

Note: The Kingsong 16X disassembly video makes it seem a non-destructive process. That is a lie: you will absolutely destroy the side paddings. 

As I sit defeated, slumped over in my office chair, I finally see it - a sliver of light.

You can't tell from the pic, but it's pretty dark under my desk - on my good camera I had to bump up the ISO to 256,000, and I've spread the panels and angled it just right to make the crack very obvious for this pic.

I completely missed that hairline gap before and after my rinse, even as I was towel drying it off with it smack in front of my face 😩. Even during my disassembly attempt, I was convinced the point of ingress was the handle bar slots.

I've opened up the Nikola as well, and this is the point I want to make:

• Kingsong 16X panels are jigsaw fit, with no gaskets, no overlaps. It just takes one strong impact to ruin that close tolerance jigsaw puzzle, and you can kiss your water resistance goodbye
• Gotway Nikola 100V uses overlapping fit, with a rubber gasket - think of lid overlapping a jar

Learn from my costly mistake.

In 2 months I've managed to destroy 2 flagship wheels 😩.

Edited October 9, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[Patton250]

26 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

== Mon, 10/7/2019 ==

Bad news - I killed my 16X.

Took a mid-day wok break to run an errand, and since I've already dropped this wheel, rode it with the mentality of a beater. At one point, decided to zip through grass, cause why not.

Well, that grass patch was lump city and apparently more Canadian Geese Poop™ than grass. Let's just say I rode back to work with an impressively protective coating of Geese.  

I drop by the shower, make sure ports are closed, and rinse it off - you see where this is going. 

Towel dry it off and ride it back to my desk. 10 minutes later, the front panel goes out - the light turns off and the power button is out. 10 more minutes later, the wheel makes a single beep, and it's no longer balancing.

Keep in mind I've done this dozens of times before - so I'm baffled. I look all around and do not see any points of ingress. The ports are plugged in and dry. 

I spend the next 2 hours trying to open the wheel to blow dry it out, and find out a bit too late I don't have deep enough drivers.

Note: The Kingsong 16X disassembly video makes it seem a non-destructive process. That is a lie: you will absolutely destroy the side paddings. 

As I sit defeated, slumped over in my office chair, I finally see it - a sliver of light.

You can't tell from the pic, but it's pretty dark under my desk - on my good camera I had to bump up the ISO to 256,000, and I've spread panels and angled it just right to make the crack very obvious for this pic.

I completely missed that hairline gap before and after my rinse, even as I was towel drying it off with it smack in front of my face 😩. Even during my disassembly attempt, I was convinced the point of ingress was the handle bar slots.

I've opened up the Nikola as well, and this is the point I want to make:

• Kingsong 16X panels are jigsaw fit, with no gaskets, no overlaps. It just takes one strong impact to ruin that close tolerance jigsaw puzzle, and you can kiss your water resistance goodbye
• Gotway Nikola 100V uses overlapping fit, with a rubber gasket - think of lid overlapping a jar

Learn from my costly mistake.

In 2 months I've managed to destroy 2 flagship wheels 😩.

Holy moly. I’m sorry man. 

[lioku]

29 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

I completely missed that hairline gap before and after my rinse, even as I was towel drying it off with it smack in front of my face 😩. Even during my disassembly attempt, I was convinced the point of ingress was the handle bar slots.

This confirms my suspicion that the 16X is not at all waterproof after seeing how the shell fits together. I just rode to the train station in Portland in-between rain showers.. Feeling lucky that the wheel didn't get wet on top, or it might be dead by now. It's a shame that KS didn't seem to consider water resistance when designing the case. Like you said, just a simple overlap could have provided much more tolerance to light rain.

Sorry that both of your wheels are out of commission now 😢.. Maybe the 16X could be fixed with a replacement control board?

[ElectriQ User]

@chrisjunlee, i'm very sorry for you man

[meepmeepmayer]

My condolences Respect for all the experimenting you do, though.

But try to find out what actually broke. Just the board (good) or a battery pack ($$$)? This isn't a total loss, is it?

[chrisjunlee]

1 hour ago, lioku said:

This confirms my suspicion that the 16X is not at all waterproof after seeing how the shell fits together. I just rode to the train station in Portland in-between rain showers.. Feeling lucky that the wheel didn't get wet on top, or it might be dead by now. It's a shame that KS didn't seem to consider water resistance when designing the case. Like you said, just a simple overlap could have provided much more tolerance to light rain.

I've rinsed it off dozens of times before with 0 issues, so it is indeed water resistant as long as you don't impact it (whether it be by a crash, going down stairs, etc). But yes, I wish I knew about the puzzle fit =/

I'm hoping it'll work once things dry up. Just need to get longer tools to open it up and blow dry everything out.

Edited October 9, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, chrisjunlee said:

== Mon, 10/7/2019 ==

Bad news - I killed my 16X.

Took a mid-day wok break to run an errand, and since I've already dropped this wheel, rode it with the mentality of a beater. At one point, decided to zip through grass, cause why not.

Well, that grass patch was lump city and apparently more Canadian Geese Poop™ than grass. Let's just say I rode back to work with an impressively protective coating of Geese.  

I drop by the shower, make sure ports are closed, and rinse it off - you see where this is going. 

Towel dry it off and ride it back to my desk. 10 minutes later, the front panel goes out - the light turns off and the power button is out. 10 more minutes later, the wheel makes a single beep, and it's no longer balancing.

Keep in mind I've done this dozens of times before - so I'm baffled. I look all around and do not see any points of ingress. The ports are plugged in and dry. 

I spend the next 2 hours trying to open the wheel to blow dry it out, and find out a bit too late I don't have deep enough drivers.

Note: The Kingsong 16X disassembly video makes it seem a non-destructive process. That is a lie: you will absolutely destroy the side paddings. 

As I sit defeated, slumped over in my office chair, I finally see it - a sliver of light.

You can't tell from the pic, but it's pretty dark under my desk - on my good camera I had to bump up the ISO to 256,000, and I've spread panels and angled it just right to make the crack very obvious for this pic.

I completely missed that hairline gap before and after my rinse, even as I was towel drying it off with it smack in front of my face 😩. Even during my disassembly attempt, I was convinced the point of ingress was the handle bar slots.

I've opened up the Nikola as well, and this is the point I want to make:

• Kingsong 16X panels are jigsaw fit, with no gaskets, no overlaps. It just takes one strong impact to ruin that close tolerance jigsaw puzzle, and you can kiss your water resistance goodbye
• Gotway Nikola 100V uses overlapping fit, with a rubber gasket - think of lid overlapping a jar

Learn from my costly mistake.

In 2 months I've managed to destroy 2 flagship wheels 😩.

Wow. This plus other reports tell me that the 16X really sucks for keeping the outside elements outside.

I only use running water when rinsing off the tire. Otherwise I use a dampened sponge. And this isn't just a 16X problem. I've seen Gotway wheels broken for the same reason (cleaning with running water).

Just don't do it folks.

Hey Chris. It's time for you to just enjoy your wheels for awhile . They deserve some love 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Marty Backe

[Stoney]

I really hope you contact Jason and get your wheels moving. You do have a a warranty so please use it!!!

[tessa25]

55 minutes ago, Stoney said:

I really hope you contact Jason and get your wheels moving. You do have a a warranty so please use it!!!

I don't think warranties cover putting your wheel in the shower.

[Tadas]

15 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

Nothing interesting, my 3500 W power draws were from earlier in the day. I think it's this one: 2019_10_06_12_45_26.csv

 

 

I think it is interesting! At the time of the crash only 2666 W power and only 38 A current!

I have had reached 4000 W on my 16x and it was fine, but it was at much lower speed than yours.

This supports the theory that at high speed the wheel just lacks voltage due to high motor back EMF. If so, this wheel is quite unsafe above 40 km/h (=25 mph), which is what you've been saying. Thank you! Indeed you are providing the community a valuable service! I will personally try to never exceed 40 kmh = 25 mph on my 16x.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Tadas